But Jesus only told one person...

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exegete

Active member
Dec 23, 2018
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My Tiny Apartment
#1
I was talking with a friend some time ago and the following came up: In Matt 19:16-24, a rich man came to Jesus and asked what he should do to get eternal life. After some discussion about obeying the law Jesus told him to sell all of his possessions and give to the poor. I used this to make the point that as Christians we should not be concerned about making a lot of money or gaining a lot of earthly possessions, but rather we should be more concerned with helping our fellow man, evangelism, etc. My Christian friend responded, that I couldn't possibly mean that because Jesus only told that to one person, and that wasn't meant for everyone, and that he made a lot of money to help the poor, (basically every weak argument against what I was saying. I countered with, Jesus only told one person that he needed to be born again (Nicodemus, John 3:3) and yet we make that the cornerstone of Christianity.

What say ye? Should we only consider (or obey) things that Jesus told to many and disregard the private conversations?
 
L

LPT

Guest
#2
I was talking with a friend some time ago and the following came up: In Matt 19:16-24, a rich man came to Jesus and asked what he should do to get eternal life. After some discussion about obeying the law Jesus told him to sell all of his possessions and give to the poor. I used this to make the point that as Christians we should not be concerned about making a lot of money or gaining a lot of earthly possessions, but rather we should be more concerned with helping our fellow man, evangelism, etc. My Christian friend responded, that I couldn't possibly mean that because Jesus only told that to one person, and that wasn't meant for everyone, and that he made a lot of money to help the poor, (basically every weak argument against what I was saying. I countered with, Jesus only told one person that he needed to be born again (Nicodemus, John 3:3) and yet we make that the cornerstone of Christianity.

What say ye? Should we only consider (or obey) things that Jesus told to many and disregard the private conversations?
Well there is two angles to that, the short statured man who climb the tree sold half of what he owned and Joseph who buried Jesus body in his tomb didn’t sell a thing and was a disciple. So IMO it’s not about what you own or wealth but what’s in your heart.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#3
Hmm I think its giving to the poor that Jesus was emphaising not the selling of everything you have that you friend is taking on board. . But actually there will come a point where you will actually need to sell everything you have, cos you cant take it with you.

See the parable of the pearl of great price..Matthew 13:44-46
 
L

LPT

Guest
#4
Hmm I wonder who this man was?

Mark 9:38
And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#5
Hmm I think its giving to the poor that Jesus was emphaising not the selling of everything you have that you friend is taking on board. . But actually there will come a point where you will actually need to sell everything you have, cos you cant take it with you.

See the parable of the pearl of great price..Matthew 13:45-46
Why sell and not give?
 
L

LPT

Guest
#6
Your first reaction was to sell
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#7
Just want to add these two parables Jesus told to his disciples not just one person.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#8
Just want to add these two parables Jesus told to his disciples not just one person.
Here’s a write up I found interesting from bible study tools.

Again the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure
By which is meant, not eternal life, the incorruptible inheritance, riches of glory, treasure in heaven; nor Christ, in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge, and all the riches of grace and glory; but the Gospel, which is a treasure consisting of rich truths, comparable to gold, silver, and precious stones; of the most valuable blessings, and of exceeding great, and precious promises; and reveals the riches of God, of Christ, and of the other world; and is a treasure unsearchable, solid, satisfying, and lasting: this is said to be

hid in a field.
The Gospel was in some measure hid, under the former dispensation, from the Old Testament saints; and for a long time was hid from the Gentile world; and is entirely hid from them that are lost, who are blinded by the god of this world; and even from the elect of God themselves, before conversion: this is sometimes said to be hid in God, in his thoughts, counsels, and purposes, and in the covenant of his grace; and sometimes in Christ; who is the storehouse of truth, as well as of grace; and may be thought to be hid under the Mosaic economy, in the types and shadows of the ceremonial law: but here "the field" means the Scriptures, in which the Gospel lies hid; and therefore these are to be searched into for it, as men seek and search for silver and hid treasures, by digging into mines, and in the bowels of the earth:

the which when a man hath found;
either with or without the use of means, purposely attended to, in order to find it; such as reading, hearing, prayer, and meditation: for sometimes the Gospel, and the spiritual saving knowledge of it, are found, and attained to, by persons accidentally, with respect to themselves, though providentially, with respect to God; when they had no desire after it, or searched for it, and thought nothing about it; though by others it is come at, in a diligent use of the above means:

he hideth;
which is to be understood not in an ill sense, as the man hid his talent in a napkin, and in the earth; but in a good sense, and designs his care of it; his laying it up in his heart, that he might not lose it, and that it might not be taken away from him: and

for joy thereof;
for the Gospel, when rightly understood, brings good tidings of great joy, to sensible sinners;

goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth the field:
which is not to be interpreted literally and properly; though a man that knows the worth and value of the Bible, rather than be without one, would part with all his worldly substance for one; but figuratively, and denotes the willingness of such souls, who are led into the glory, fulness, and excellency of the word of God, the scriptures of truth, and of the immense treasure of the Gospel therein, to part with all that has been, or is dear unto them; with their sins, and self-righteousness; with their good names and characters; their worldly substance, and life itself, for the sake of the Gospel, and their profession of it: and may also design the use of all means, to gain a larger degree of light and knowledge in the Gospel. It seems by this parable, according to the Jewish laws, that not the finder of a treasure in a field, but the owner of the field, had the propriety in it; when it should seem rather, that it ought to be divided. Such that have ability and leisure, may consult a controversy in Philostratus F12, between two persons, the buyer and seller of a field; in which, after the purchase, a treasure was found, when the seller claimed it as his; urging, that had he known of it, he would never have sold him the field: the buyer, on the other hand, insisted on its being his property; alleging that all was his which was contained in the land bought by him.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#9
The Bible is vast in its treasures that can be known more than likely the deeper understandings take a sort of leap of faith

like no doubt I know it would be extremely hard for folks to believe the man casting out demons in Jesus name was none other than the rich young man who later came to his senses and understood what was Jesus saying to him. but regardless if anyone understands it I’ve already buried the treasure.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
13,728
113
#10
The OP brings up a question of hermeneutics: how are we to interpret Scripture?

If we are to take Jesus' words to the rich young man as instructive for all, then we must also take his words to his disciples as instructive for all: Go to the next village and get a donkey.

Does this sound rational? No.

Instead, we examine the narrative and look for a principle. Is there a principle for us in Jesus sending the disciples for a donkey? Not that I can see; it was a one-time case. Could the Holy Spirit use that for a specific situation in another person's life? Of course, but in general terms we are not looking for donkeys.

Now let's look again at the rich young man: is there a principle to be found? Yes. Is the principle, "Go and sell your belongings..."? No.

When reading Scripture, make the distinction between narrative that records events, and direct instruction. Many bad doctrines come from people misinterpreting narrative as instruction.

Now... what you are about to do, do quickly. ;)
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
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#11
I talked to a fellow once who claimed that this was a prerequisite, selling everything one owns, to being saved. My reply was that if we understand that God is the true owner of everything, then our understanding, our care of and our stewardship will reflect this. God is the owner of all I possess. That declaration will free one from coveting; though we all tend to forget this at times, I think God finds ways to remind us of this, from time to time.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
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#12
In book of acts when the holy ghost was given at pentecost soon after many people did sell all they had to spread the gospel...except anais and saphirra who kept some back, because they lied to the holy ghost they were struck dead.

Obviously it was a requirement to follow Jesus, I mean if you had to go and spread the word then you would sell everything you have to do so, this is what missionaries do...you cant have it both ways. How you going to maintain a house etc while also going out into the world and spreading the gospel. You would need that cash to live on while you travelling. Why Jesus told the rich man to sell everything and follow him, well..this is what his disciples had actually done...they were fisherman they sold their business of fishing to spend time with Jesus.
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
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#13
I was talking with a friend some time ago and the following came up: In Matt 19:16-24, a rich man came to Jesus and asked what he should do to get eternal life. After some discussion about obeying the law Jesus told him to sell all of his possessions and give to the poor. I used this to make the point that as Christians we should not be concerned about making a lot of money or gaining a lot of earthly possessions, but rather we should be more concerned with helping our fellow man, evangelism, etc. My Christian friend responded, that I couldn't possibly mean that because Jesus only told that to one person, and that wasn't meant for everyone, and that he made a lot of money to help the poor, (basically every weak argument against what I was saying. I countered with, Jesus only told one person that he needed to be born again (Nicodemus, John 3:3) and yet we make that the cornerstone of Christianity.

What say ye? Should we only consider (or obey) things that Jesus told to many and disregard the private conversations?
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material things for their wants): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Love is the fulfilling of the law, which includes helping the poor and needy if you can, for if you love people perfectly then you can only do that by the Spirit then you have to be right with God, and God's kingdom is true love, where the world is motivated by self exaltation, which selfishness, and arrogance, is a product of that.

That is the faith, and God only blesses us with our needs, not our wants for He loves people, not blessing the saints with their wants according to the flesh, which God said some people pray amiss to heap it upon their lusts.

The love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, and the way God created the earth to operate among people.

Jesus pointed out to the rich man that in order to inherit eternal life he had to obey the 6 commandments that have to do with loving people, which he said he did that from his youth, and then Jesus said he lacked caring about the poor and needy by heaping riches, and material things to himself, but then the rich man went away as he did not want to believe he had to do that to inherit eternal life.

Sound familiar with the prosperity Gospel, and many people believing that God blesses them with their wants above their needs, for there are many of them, and God said at this time they will say they are rich and increased with goods, and have need of nothing, but God said they are not right with Him.

This applies to everybody what Jesus said to the rich man that goes by their wants, and not only their needs, for love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul said we do not void out the law, but we establish the law, and the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, and pointed out that if a person does not keep the commandments that have to do with loving people then they shall not inherit eternal life, the same as Jesus told the rich man to keep the commandments that have to do with loving people.

And Paul, James, and John, all say the same thing as Jesus about only going by your needs, and not your wants.

So concerning obeying the commandments, and only going by your needs, and to help the poor and needy, Paul says the same thing as Jesus.

Now it is alright to make a lot of money at your job, but it does not matter how much money we take in we can only go by our needs, and not our wants, so our money situation, and lifestyle is the same no matter how much money we make.

I pray that television evangelists would understand that.

The early Church in Acts sold all they had that was not a necessity, and gave the money to the saints that lacked, and had all things in common, which means they shared everything, and were on a equal level, which God said He wants equality among the saints.

I pray the saints would understand that, but at this time many love money, and material things, and lack love, then their faith lacks, and is void.

Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and it is not faith alone, but love alone, and everything stems from love.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said without charity they are nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James said without charity their faith is dead.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

John said without charity the love of God does not dwell in them.

Which Paul, James, and John, say the same thing, but many people argue over Paul and James, but they say the same thing.

So the message to the rich man is for everybody, and He told the rich man to obey the commandments that have to do with loving people, which Paul says the same thing, and to sell all he had that was not a necessity and help the poor and needy, which Paul says the same thing along with James, and John.

Charity is greater than faith, and without love there is no faith, and charity is love in action, works, for we do not love in tongue, or in word, but we love is deed, and truth.

But there will be some people that will go against it, and why do they go against it, because they love money, and material things for their wants, so they do not want to believe it according to the truth.

They want to enjoy sin, and worldliness, and vacations, and cruises, and worldly entertainment, and believe they can do so without any penalty against them, but Jesus, and Paul says different, and so do James, and John.

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Will Jesus find faith when He comes back, for the majority of people that claim Christ violate that faith by going by their wants.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,572
9,090
113
#14
I was talking with a friend some time ago and the following came up: In Matt 19:16-24, a rich man came to Jesus and asked what he should do to get eternal life. After some discussion about obeying the law Jesus told him to sell all of his possessions and give to the poor. I used this to make the point that as Christians we should not be concerned about making a lot of money or gaining a lot of earthly possessions, but rather we should be more concerned with helping our fellow man, evangelism, etc. My Christian friend responded, that I couldn't possibly mean that because Jesus only told that to one person, and that wasn't meant for everyone, and that he made a lot of money to help the poor, (basically every weak argument against what I was saying. I countered with, Jesus only told one person that he needed to be born again (Nicodemus, John 3:3) and yet we make that the cornerstone of Christianity.

What say ye? Should we only consider (or obey) things that Jesus told to many and disregard the private conversations?

The ENTIRE point Jesus was making to the Rich young ruler was that it was impossible to attain Eternal Life by keeping the Law. That's it. It had nothing to do with money. Jesus tried to illustrate that the man had NOT kept the all the Law evidenced by the fact that he was rich, and yet so many were needy.

There is only ONE way a camel can go through the eye of a needle. And that is to be utterly pulverized to dust. THEN we can fit through that eye. We ARE totally pulverized, that is our flesh, when we are born again.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,726
13,522
113
#15
I was talking with a friend some time ago and the following came up: In Matt 19:16-24, a rich man came to Jesus and asked what he should do to get eternal life. After some discussion about obeying the law Jesus told him to sell all of his possessions and give to the poor. I used this to make the point that as Christians we should not be concerned about making a lot of money or gaining a lot of earthly possessions, but rather we should be more concerned with helping our fellow man, evangelism, etc. My Christian friend responded, that I couldn't possibly mean that because Jesus only told that to one person, and that wasn't meant for everyone, and that he made a lot of money to help the poor, (basically every weak argument against what I was saying. I countered with, Jesus only told one person that he needed to be born again (Nicodemus, John 3:3) and yet we make that the cornerstone of Christianity.

What say ye? Should we only consider (or obey) things that Jesus told to many and disregard the private conversations?
we have to also consider who Jesus was talking to in each case:

You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus
(John 3:10)
He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds.
(John 19:39)
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
83
#16
Why sell and not give?

Hello LPT,
Jesus was a Jew, sent to Jews, speaking to a Jew, both of whom, are still under Mosaic law.

All scripture is written for us.

Rom 15:4 (A) For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning

Not all scripture is written to us, for our doctrine.

Gal 3:24 (A) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ

(NOTE: The purpose of the Mosaic law covenant . Was to teach/expose our sin & our need for a savior. It was implemented temporarily, until Christ pay's sin due wage = DEATH. That was 430 yrs after God's faith promise with Abraham. Mosaic law covenant doesn't annual God's faith covenant with Abraham (Gal 3:17).

We are instructed to be cheerful givers. God doesn't change & the law doesn't change.

However, throughout human history. God does change the way he administers the implementation of the law. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses & the New testament Church/Body of Christ. Who BTW, isn't under the law Jesus & the rich man were under.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#17
The OP brings up a question of hermeneutics: how are we to interpret Scripture?

If we are to take Jesus' words to the rich young man as instructive for all, then we must also take his words to his disciples as instructive for all: Go to the next village and get a donkey.

Does this sound rational? No.

Instead, we examine the narrative and look for a principle. Is there a principle for us in Jesus sending the disciples for a donkey? Not that I can see; it was a one-time case. Could the Holy Spirit use that for a specific situation in another person's life? Of course, but in general terms we are not looking for donkeys.

Now let's look again at the rich young man: is there a principle to be found? Yes. Is the principle, "Go and sell your belongings..."? No.

When reading Scripture, make the distinction between narrative that records events, and direct instruction. Many bad doctrines come from people misinterpreting narrative as instruction.

Now... what you are about to do, do quickly. ;)
On the donkey it’s quite rich in meaning and the reasons for it is found in the Bible here’s just one.

1 Sam 9
3 One day the donkeys of Saul’s father Kish wandered off. So Kish said to his son Saul, “Take one of the servants and go look for the donkeys.”
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
113
#18
Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money, material things for their wants): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Love is the fulfilling of the law, which includes helping the poor and needy if you can, for if you love people perfectly then you can only do that by the Spirit then you have to be right with God, and God's kingdom is true love, where the world is motivated by self exaltation, which selfishness, and arrogance, is a product of that.

That is the faith, and God only blesses us with our needs, not our wants for He loves people, not blessing the saints with their wants according to the flesh, which God said some people pray amiss to heap it upon their lusts.

The love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, and the way God created the earth to operate among people.

Jesus pointed out to the rich man that in order to inherit eternal life he had to obey the 6 commandments that have to do with loving people, which he said he did that from his youth, and then Jesus said he lacked caring about the poor and needy by heaping riches, and material things to himself, but then the rich man went away as he did not want to believe he had to do that to inherit eternal life.

Sound familiar with the prosperity Gospel, and many people believing that God blesses them with their wants above their needs, for there are many of them, and God said at this time they will say they are rich and increased with goods, and have need of nothing, but God said they are not right with Him.

This applies to everybody what Jesus said to the rich man that goes by their wants, and not only their needs, for love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul said we do not void out the law, but we establish the law, and the law is spiritual, holy, just, and good, and pointed out that if a person does not keep the commandments that have to do with loving people then they shall not inherit eternal life, the same as Jesus told the rich man to keep the commandments that have to do with loving people.

And Paul, James, and John, all say the same thing as Jesus about only going by your needs, and not your wants.

So concerning obeying the commandments, and only going by your needs, and to help the poor and needy, Paul says the same thing as Jesus.

Now it is alright to make a lot of money at your job, but it does not matter how much money we take in we can only go by our needs, and not our wants, so our money situation, and lifestyle is the same no matter how much money we make.

I pray that television evangelists would understand that.

The early Church in Acts sold all they had that was not a necessity, and gave the money to the saints that lacked, and had all things in common, which means they shared everything, and were on a equal level, which God said He wants equality among the saints.

I pray the saints would understand that, but at this time many love money, and material things, and lack love, then their faith lacks, and is void.

Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love, and it is not faith alone, but love alone, and everything stems from love.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said without charity they are nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James said without charity their faith is dead.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

John said without charity the love of God does not dwell in them.

Which Paul, James, and John, say the same thing, but many people argue over Paul and James, but they say the same thing.

So the message to the rich man is for everybody, and He told the rich man to obey the commandments that have to do with loving people, which Paul says the same thing, and to sell all he had that was not a necessity and help the poor and needy, which Paul says the same thing along with James, and John.

Charity is greater than faith, and without love there is no faith, and charity is love in action, works, for we do not love in tongue, or in word, but we love is deed, and truth.

But there will be some people that will go against it, and why do they go against it, because they love money, and material things for their wants, so they do not want to believe it according to the truth.

They want to enjoy sin, and worldliness, and vacations, and cruises, and worldly entertainment, and believe they can do so without any penalty against them, but Jesus, and Paul says different, and so do James, and John.

Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Will Jesus find faith when He comes back, for the majority of people that claim Christ violate that faith by going by their wants.
I agree. The parable of the talents is one that teaches it is not the amount one has but their view of it. The one given the least in the parable was the one chastised, because of his attitude, (thinking). I have known poor folks who chastised the rich, in general, with good reason, yet there are examples of very rich people in the OT that were “friends” of God.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#19
I was talking with a friend some time ago and the following came up: In Matt 19:16-24, a rich man came to Jesus and asked what he should do to get eternal life. After some discussion about obeying the law Jesus told him to sell all of his possessions and give to the poor. I used this to make the point that as Christians we should not be concerned about making a lot of money or gaining a lot of earthly possessions, but rather we should be more concerned with helping our fellow man, evangelism, etc. My Christian friend responded, that I couldn't possibly mean that because Jesus only told that to one person, and that wasn't meant for everyone, and that he made a lot of money to help the poor, (basically every weak argument against what I was saying. I countered with, Jesus only told one person that he needed to be born again (Nicodemus, John 3:3) and yet we make that the cornerstone of Christianity.

What say ye? Should we only consider (or obey) things that Jesus told to many and disregard the private conversations?
From the Old Testament:

Job 31:24-28 If I have put my confidence in gold, And called fine gold my trust, If I have gloated because my wealth was great, And because my hand had secured so much; If I have looked at the sun when it shone or the moon going in splendor, And my heart became secretly enticed, And my hand threw a kiss from my mouth, That too would have been an iniquity calling for judgment, For I would have denied God above.

Psalm 52:6-7 The righteous will see and fear, And will laugh at him, saying, "Behold, the man who would not make God his refuge, But trusted in the abundance of his riches And was strong in his evil desire."

Proverbs 11:28 He who trusts in his riches will fall, But the righteous will flourish like the green leaf.

Jeremiah 49:4 How boastful you are about the valleys! Your valley is flowing away, O backsliding daughter who trusts in her treasures, saying, 'Who will come against me?'

Ecc_5:12 The sleep of a laboring man is sweet, whether he eat little or much: but the abundance of the rich will not suffer him to sleep.

Ezekiel 28:5 By your great wisdom, by your trade You have increased your riches And your heart is lifted up because of your riches

Psalm 62:10 Do not trust in oppression and do not vainly hope in robbery; If riches increase, do not set your heart upon them.

Proverbs 18:23 The poor man utters supplications, But the rich man answers roughly.

Pro_23:4 Labor not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom.

Proverbs 28:11 The rich man is wise in his own eyes, But the poor who has understanding sees through him.

Proverbs 28:20 A faithful person will be richly blessed, but one eager to get rich will not go unpunished.

Job 20:17-20 He does not look at the streams, The rivers flowing with honey and curds. He returns what he has attained And cannot swallow it; As to the riches of his trading, He cannot even enjoy them. For he has oppressed and forsaken the poor; He has seized a house which he has not built. Because he knew no quiet within him, He does not retain anything he desires.

Proverbs 15:6 Great wealth is in the house of the righteous, But trouble is in the income of the wicked.

Proverbs 30:8-9 Keep deception and lies far from me, give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion, That I not be full and deny You and say, "Who is the LORD?" Or that I not be in want and steal, And profane the name of my God.

Deuteronomy 32:15 Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, they became heavy and sleek. They abandoned the God who made them and rejected the Rock their Savior.

Nehemiah 9:25-26 They captured fortified cities and a fertile land They took possession of houses full of every good thing, Hewn cisterns, vineyards, olive groves, Fruit trees in abundance So they ate, were filled and grew fat, And reveled in Your great goodness. "But they became disobedient and rebelled against You, And cast Your law behind their backs And killed Your prophets who had admonished them So that they might return to You, And they committed great blasphemies.

Hosea 13:6 As they had their pasture, they became satisfied, And being satisfied, their heart became proud; Therefore they forgot Me.

Proverbs 23:4 Do not weary yourself to gain wealth, Cease from your consideration of it.

Haggai 1:3-5 Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet, saying, "Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses while this house lies desolate?" Now therefore, thus says the LORD of hosts, "Consider your ways!

Leviticus 19:13 You shall not oppress your neighbor, nor rob him. The wages of a hired man are not to remain with you all night until morning.

Deuteronomy 24:12-15 If he is a poor man, you shall not sleep with his pledge. When the sun goes down you shall surely return the pledge to him, that he may sleep in his cloak and bless you; and it will be righteousness for you before the LORD your God. You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

Proverbs 22:16 He who oppresses the poor to make more for himself or who gives to the rich, will only come to poverty.

Isaiah 1:23 Your rulers are rebels And companions of thieves; Everyone loves a bribe And chases after rewards. They do not defend the orphan, Nor does the widow's plea come before them.

Jeremiah 22:13 Woe to him who builds his house without righteousness And his upper rooms without justice, Who uses his neighbor's services without pay And does not give him his wages,

Micah 6:12 For the rich men of the city are full of violence, Her residents speak lies, And their tongue is deceitful in their mouth.

Malachi 3:5 Then I will draw near to you for judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers and against the adulterers and against those who swear falsely, and against those who oppress the wage earner in his wages, the widow and the orphan, and those who turn aside the alien and do not fear Me," says the LORD of hosts.

Job 31:24, 25, 28 If I have put my confidence in gold, And called fine gold my trust, If I have gloated because my wealth was great, And because my hand had secured so much; ... That too would have been an iniquity calling for judgment, For I would have denied God above.

Psalm 52:7 Behold,the man who would not make God his refuge, But trusted in the abundance of his riches And was strong in his evil desire."

Proverbs 18:11 A rich man’s wealth is his strong city, And like a high wall in his own imagination.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
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#20
From the New:

Matthew 4:9-10 and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only’”.

Matthew 6:24 No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.

Matthew 13:22 And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Matthew 19:21-22Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

Mark 4:19 but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

Mark 10:21-22 Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, "One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

Luke 6:20 “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. 21 Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh. 22 Blessed are you when people hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man. 23 “Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For that is how their ancestors treated the prophets. 24 “But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. 25 Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will go hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. 26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Luke 8:14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

Luke 12:13-21 13 Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”14 Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” 15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.” 16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’ 18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’ 20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’ 21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth

Luke 16:19-21 Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores … 25 But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony

Luke 18:22-23 When Jesus heard this, He said to him, "One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when he had heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich.

Luke 21:1 As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2 He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. 3 “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4 All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”

1 Timothy 3:3 not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money.

1 Timothy 6:8-9 If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content. But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

1 Timothy 6:17 Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy.

James 2:6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?

Rev 3:17 Because thou say, I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing; and know not that thou art the wretched one and miserable and poor and blind and naked:

Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold refined by fire, that thou mayest become rich; and white garments, that thou mayest clothe thyself, and that the shame of thy nakedness be not made manifest; and eye salve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see.

James 5:1 Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2 Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4 Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5 You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.