Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

[Blik]

I'd look to Romans 3:20 where we're told the law existed to make us aware of our sins. Scripture also tells us no one can keep the law perfectly.
The Mitzvah, 613 laws of God, were divided into 3 parts for observance by the Jews.
Today the law of God is written on and within the heart of the believer in Christ. That law isn't the old testament re-drafted to omit observances pre-messiah. Rather, the law that is within our hearts is the giver of that Mitzvah; God.
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." John 13:34

Do you think there is a changer is the God of Adam and Eve and the God we have today?

It seems to me it is the same God who created the world that is the same world today that God created and Adam and Eve lived in. At that time the problem with humanity was that sin is death and God wanted life for us. I think that is the same all through the history of God working with humanity, keeping them from the death that sin brings on for them

 

[Blik]

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
The Law is NOT the Holy Spirit.

If we look at the history of the Holy Spirit in order to better understand it we must go back to the day Moses came off the mountain with the law tablets of stone. Moses had appointed 70 men from the tribes to help him govern and he called a meeting with those 70 to tell them all about receiving the law. That was the entire purpose of that meeting. During the meeting the Holy Spirit came to each of these 70 men, helping them understand the law. The meeting of these men receiving the Holy Spirit was on the same date of the year that Pentecost happened after Christ, and the meet happenings was the same as the meeting with Moses. They are tied together in meaning and purpose. The difference is the Holy Spirit lived with the elders of Moses for one hour and at Pentecost the Holy Spirit still lives within us.

God uses method after method with the same goal: keep sin out of our life. God defines sin in many ways from what to do and not to do to telling us that we must base sin as a lack of love and that love keeps us out of sin.

When God told the Hebrews ways to help them live a sinless life and they got so caught up in the legal steps of doing this that they thought righteousness didn't include love, Paul got so wound up trying to teach them the right way he even said the Law of Moses was out, that didn't mean God didn't want us to know living with love included the law as Moses gave it. You can't love and still lie, murder, covet, and steal.

 

[Grandpa]

If we look at the history of the Holy Spirit in order to better understand it we must go back to the day Moses came off the mountain with the law tablets of stone. Moses had appointed 70 men from the tribes to help him govern and he called a meeting with those 70 to tell them all about receiving the law. That was the entire purpose of that meeting. During the meeting the Holy Spirit came to each of these 70 men, helping them understand the law. The meeting of these men receiving the Holy Spirit was on the same date of the year that Pentecost happened after Christ, and the meet happenings was the same as the meeting with Moses. They are tied together in meaning and purpose. The difference is the Holy Spirit lived with the elders of Moses for one hour and at Pentecost the Holy Spirit still lives within us.

God uses method after method with the same goal: keep sin out of our life. God defines sin in many ways from what to do and not to do to telling us that we must base sin as a lack of love and that love keeps us out of sin.

When God told the Hebrews ways to help them live a sinless life and they got so caught up in the legal steps of doing this that they thought righteousness didn't include love, Paul got so wound up trying to teach them the right way he even said the Law of Moses was out, that didn't mean God didn't want us to know living with love included the law as Moses gave it. You can't love and still lie, murder, covet, and steal.

Sin is a big deal to US. We tell big stories about it making everyone afraid.

But the Lord Jesus Christ Atoned for sin. For all of it. We go to Christ to receive this Atonement. It is the ONLY way for sins to be forgiven.

Trying to keep sin out of your life by working at the law won't work. If you think that it is working then you don't have enough respect for the law. You don't fully understand what it says.


All the methods, that you say that God used, weren't to keep sin out of our life. They were ALL designed to bring you to Himself. It is the ONLY way for righteousness. It is the ONLY way for forgiveness. It is the ONLY way for Salvation. It is the ONLY way for Justification. It is the ONLY way for sanctification. It is the ONLY way for rest.

You can't wait until you are sinless to come to God. You'll never make it.

The Hebrew people knew the law as well as . They fell short because they thought they kept it. All they kept was their carnal idea of what they THOUGHT it was. Just like everyone else today who thinks they keep the law.


John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

The law doesn't give a person an understanding of the Holy Spirit. The Law doesn't give a person the abilities of the Holy Spirit.

The Law only COMMANDS a person to do what the Holy Spirit does and refrain from doing the things the Holy Spirit does not do.

In order to receive understanding you must come to Christ.

 

[jaybird88]

Sin is a big deal to US. We tell big stories about it making everyone afraid.

But the Lord Jesus Christ Atoned for sin. For all of it. We go to Christ to receive this Atonement. It is the ONLY way for sins to be forgiven.

Trying to keep sin out of your life by working at the law won't work. If you think that it is working then you don't have enough respect for the law. You don't fully understand what it says.


All the methods, that you say that God used, weren't to keep sin out of our life. They were ALL designed to bring you to Himself. It is the ONLY way for righteousness. It is the ONLY way for forgiveness. It is the ONLY way for Salvation. It is the ONLY way for Justification. It is the ONLY way for sanctification. It is the ONLY way for rest.

You can't wait until you are sinless to come to God. You'll never make it.

The Hebrew people knew the law as well as . They fell short because they thought they kept it. All they kept was their carnal idea of what they THOUGHT it was. Just like everyone else today who thinks they keep the law.


John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

The law doesn't give a person an understanding of the Holy Spirit. The Law doesn't give a person the abilities of the Holy Spirit.

The Law only COMMANDS a person to do what the Holy Spirit does and refrain from doing the things the Holy Spirit does not do.

In order to receive understanding you must come to Christ.

so when Jesus kept the law this is a bad example because it shows Jesus being arrogant? the Father sent the law to teach people how to be worse people?

 

[Blik]

Sin is a big deal to US. We tell big stories about it making everyone afraid.

But the Lord Jesus Christ Atoned for sin. For all of it. We go to Christ to receive this Atonement. It is the ONLY way for sins to be forgiven.

Trying to keep sin out of your life by working at the law won't work. If you think that it is working then you don't have enough respect for the law. You don't fully understand what it says.


All the methods, that you say that God used, weren't to keep sin out of our life. They were ALL designed to bring you to Himself. It is the ONLY way for righteousness. It is the ONLY way for forgiveness. It is the ONLY way for Salvation. It is the ONLY way for Justification. It is the ONLY way for sanctification. It is the ONLY way for rest.

You can't wait until you are sinless to come to God. You'll never make it.

The Hebrew people knew the law as well as . They fell short because they thought they kept it. All they kept was their carnal idea of what they THOUGHT it was. Just like everyone else today who thinks they keep the law.


John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

The law doesn't give a person an understanding of the Holy Spirit. The Law doesn't give a person the abilities of the Holy Spirit.

The Law only COMMANDS a person to do what the Holy Spirit does and refrain from doing the things the Holy Spirit does not do.

In order to receive understanding you must come to Christ.

Beautifully said. It is giving our life to the way of Christ. It is adding love to every command.

Our differences seems to be based on that I feel that the HS works with what we put in our minds with God's word and every word is important for us including what God finds lawful for us and what God doesn't find lawful.

 

[Endoscopy]

Do you think there is a changer is the God of Adam and Eve and the God we have today?

It seems to me it is the same God who created the world that is the same world today that God created and Adam and Eve lived in. At that time the problem with humanity was that sin is death and God wanted life for us. I think that is the same all through the history of God working with humanity, keeping them from the death that sin brings on for them

The same cursed world after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden!!

We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. That means the grace of Jesus makes us seen by God as sin free.

 

[Grandpa]

so when Jesus kept the law this is a bad example because it shows Jesus being arrogant?

I don't know how you drew this conclusion. You will have to connect the dots for me. Sorry.

I really don't understand how you came to that from reading what I wrote.

the Father sent the law to teach people how to be worse people?

The law doesn't teach people HOW to do anything. (10 commandments)

All it does is SHOW what you already are.

IF you want to know HOW you must come to Christ and be shown.

Come to Christ. Not read about others going to Christ. You must come to Christ. Personally.

 

[Endoscopy]

so when Jesus kept the law this is a bad example because it shows Jesus being arrogant? the Father sent the law to teach people how to be worse people?

Your different posts convey an ignorance of Christian concepts and knowledge. Christians study the Bible and you are asking things Sunday Schools teach young children much less older ones. What are you. Your questions seem very ignorant of Christianity.

 

[jaybird88]

The law doesn't teach people HOW to do anything. (10 commandments)

All it does is SHOW what you already are.

IF you want to know HOW you must come to Christ and be shown.

Come to Christ. Not read about others going to Christ. You must come to Christ. Personally.

this would make the law completely arbitrary. why would the Father do something so meaningless?

 

[jaybird88]

Your different posts convey an ignorance of Christian concepts and knowledge. Christians study the Bible and you are asking things Sunday Schools teach young children much less older ones. What are you. Your questions seem very ignorant of Christianity.

yes its very ignorant to claim Jesus is your example and then say the law is not meant for Christians when the example of Jesus follows the law.

 

[Endoscopy]

this would make the law completely arbitrary. why would the Father do something so meaningless?

All are under the law. Sin is breaking that law. Do you know when you sin? If you don't know the law you will never know. Here is the law. Some are not applicable today, others are man or woman only along with other divisions. Then there are the dos and don'ts.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah. Maimonides counted and documented them. No one has found any more.

The 613 laws of God.
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Discussion of the 613 laws of God
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[Grandpa]

this would make the law completely arbitrary. why would the Father do something so meaningless?

It is designed to bring you to the end of yourself.

It is the reason why you need Christ.

Its anything but meaningless.

 

[glf1]

Hey! y'all... PTL!
Gal 3: 23-26 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith that should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For we all are the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."

This epistle is addressed to the church in Galatia by the apostle sent to the gentles. They predominately worshiped the Roman pantheon and yet it is the Galatian church and Paul who are the we in "we were kept under the law." So that before Christ, both the Jew and the Gentile are kept under the law.
But once we are born of the Spirit and join the faithful, we are no longer under the law. Our right standing before the Lord is now based upon faith or:
Gal 5: 4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace."

Law keeping to be pleasing to the Lord will never work. Keeping the Sabbath for righteousness will always fail. For without faith it is impossible to please the Lord. Does faith make the law void? Yes, if it is used to obtain righteousness, but if the law is used as a blueprint for the beginning of what righteousness looks like as an example, then the law and the commandment are good, just, and holy. When I say the beginning of what is righteous, the letter of the law is just that. For example: Is it more righteous to get an eye for an eye or to turn the other cheek? Is it more just to not murder or to keep oneself from hating his brother? Is it better to not commit adultery or to keep oneself from lusting after another? This is the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant! They couldn't keep the Old Covenant so the Lord replaced it by faith in Jesus with the New Covenant. They failed but we can succeed by devoting ourselves to the scriptures and having the Spirit put the Lord's laws and commandments into our hearts and minds. This difference is internal and changes the faithful more and more into Jesus' image, which is a moral or righteous image; and to which the faithful are predestinated to achieve. By having the Lord's commandments being written into one's heart and mind, it is in the conscience that the rubber meets the road, so to speak, and guilt or some prefer conviction is used by the Spirit to set such as these free from addictive behaviors, able to walk after the Spirit and deny the lusts of the flesh as the Lord desires of his children.

This is why, I suspect, that the law will not pass away until the heavens and the earth pass away, because even during the millennium those that are born in that time will have to at some point turn to Jesus in repentance and faith to no longer be kept under the law.

Maranatha!

 

[glf1]

I don't know how you drew this conclusion. You will have to connect the dots for me. Sorry.

I really don't understand how you came to that from reading what I wrote.



The law doesn't teach people HOW to do anything. (10 commandments)

All it does is SHOW what you already are.

IF you want to know HOW you must come to Christ and be shown.

Come to Christ. Not read about others going to Christ. You must come to Christ. Personally.

Gal 3: 24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

 

[glf1]

yes its very ignorant to claim Jesus is your example and then say the law is not meant for Christians when the example of Jesus follows the law.

Hey! jaybird... PTL!

As I see it:
Gal 4: 4 "But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law."

Rom 3: 19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

Rom 6: 14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Praise the Lord in the name of Jesus, our God and King!

 

[Endoscopy]

yes its very ignorant to claim Jesus is your example and then say the law is not meant for Christians when the example of Jesus follows the law.

It is obvious you misunderstood my post. The law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear. When we sin we are breaking the law.
That condemns us.
If we accept the grace through faith in Jesus then we are freed from paying the penalty since he took them to the cross.
Those who reject him will face judgement under the law.

 

[HeraldandSojourner]

There is a difference between the moral law, which is the perfect standard of God's righteousness; and the Mosaic Law, which had the moral law included, was the Old Covenant conditions to Israel as a nation before God. The latter had types, shadows, and prophetical implications that taught the Jews to believe in the true Sacrifice, Jesus Christ.

 

[Endoscopy]

There is a difference between the moral law, which is the perfect standard of God's righteousness; and the Mosaic Law, which had the moral law included, was the Old Covenant conditions to Israel as a nation before God. The latter had types, shadows, and prophetical implications that taught the Jews to believe in the true Sacrifice, Jesus Christ.

The law Jesus talked about as in place and lasting until the heavens and earth disappear is the 613 rules scattered through the Torah.
In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah. Maimonides counted and documented them. No one has found any more.

The 613 laws of God.
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Discussion of the 613 laws of God
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[HeraldandSojourner]

Endoscopy,

The Lord said that he didn't come to abolish the Law of Moses and the Prophets, but fulfill it; that heaven and earth will not pass away until all is accomplished. This was clearly done when Christ had suffered, died, resurrected, and ascended on our behalf in his blood to mediate a new and better covenant that these things spoke about.

 

[Blik]

There is a difference between the moral law, which is the perfect standard of God's righteousness; and the Mosaic Law, which had the moral law included, was the Old Covenant conditions to Israel as a nation before God. The latter had types, shadows, and prophetical implications that taught the Jews to believe in the true Sacrifice, Jesus Christ.

What I don't see posted here is the fact that the spirit of the Law, the way of the Lord, includes all that the Law of Moses told us. If you love someone you will not steal from them as the law God gave to Moses told us, it just didn't include how Christ explained it was to be kept. I don't understand how it would be possible to toss out Moses because you accept the spirit of the Lord.

Also, if we will not study the word including what God told Moses, then we do not have a lot of scripture within us for the Holy Spirit to use.

I have been asked questions about God because people knew I love Him and I study. Yet I can remember many times my answers were completely inadequate because I hadn't learned enough of His word. It seems to me the Holy Spirit uses what we put in our minds from the word and it is up to us to inform ourselves including what happened on Mt Sinai.