Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

Its sad how people will twist scripture to prove to themselves they are right, instead of taking it for what it says.

Paul also called himself the chief of all sinners. This is how paul looked at himself.. For anyone to look and think they are no longer a sinner, they have some major issues.

Hi E-g, you are so right about how some take the view that they are no longer a sinner, they minimize the
depth and breadth and damage that sin can do. Ultimately it caused the crucifixion of our Savior Jesus Christ,
"who knew no sin."

God said Job was an upright and blameless man; Job new the depth, breadth, and damage that sin can do, he had a proper perspective of sin, and so did the Apostle Paul.

Job1:1
"There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil."

Job40:3,4
3) Then Job answered the LORD, and said,4) Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

 

[BillG]

The given reason for the filthy rags concept is God can see into our sinful nature while doing our good works and sees we are not pure in our motives.

And you hit the nail on the head.

Our motives.

Jesus said "if you love me you will"

The motive must be out of love.
Love for who?

Jesus.
Not boasting here but I have been obedient at times to do what God has asked me to do. Even complaining at him.

But I followed what I have been asked to do.

After all Jesus took the concept of love beyond our boundaries and affections.

AGAPE love.
That is what we should all aspire to.
The same love that Jesus whilst hanging on the cross said "Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Filthy rags

The term “filthy rags” is quite strong. The word filthy is a translation of the Hebrew word iddah, which literally means “the bodily fluids from a woman’s menstrual cycle.” The word rags is a translation of begged, meaning “a rag or garment.” Therefore, these “righteous acts” are considered by God as repugnant as a soiled feminine hygiene product (Got questions)

I say only filthy when we stand before God and claim works to be saved.

Yes we are to do good works.
The Bible states that clearly.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them

Anything out of v8-9 that we do to earn salvation is basically the same as holding a rag that contains the fluid from a woman's menstrual cycle and want to God "Look at what I did"

It's disgusting in the eyes of God, makes a mockery of those hours that Jesus hung on the cross.

He shed his blood and it's his blood that saves us.

Martin Luther said, “The most damnable and pernicious heresy that has ever plagued the mind of man is that somehow he can make himself good enough to deserve to live forever with an all-holy God.”

Amen brother

Thinking they are making God happy. They are in reality shaming God and making a mockery of he cross.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi E-g, you are so right about how some take the view that they are no longer a sinner, they minimize the
depth and breadth and damage that sin can do. Ultimately it caused the crucifixion of our Savior Jesus Christ,
"who knew no sin."

God said Job was an upright and blameless man; Job new the depth, breadth, and damage that sin can do, he had a proper perspective of sin, and so did the Apostle Paul.

Job1:1
"There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil."

Job40:3,4
3) Then Job answered the LORD, and said,4) Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

Amen, Even thr great prophet Isaiah fell to his knees, considering himself a man of unclean lips. As did Daniel and John when they met just an angel. And these people think they will stand proudly when they see God..

In their dreams!

 

[J70x7]

What are some of the attributes of a presumptuous person concerning eternal salvation? Lets see how many attributes of a presumptuous person we can come up with. It is time to psychologically analyze the inner core of a presumptuous person concerning eternal salvation?

 

[Budman]

He is speaking in the present historic tense in chapter seven. We know this Because He makes the proclamation to be free from the Law of sin and death that the righteousness of the Law might be fulled in us who walk after the spirit and not after the flesh.

Do you still sin? Then you're walking after the flesh. And you'll never be able to escape that fact, no matter how you try to twist it.

Paul claims he had been Made me free from the law of sin and death. No longer in captivity to the Law of sin which which is in His members. HE HAS BEEN MADE FREE!

Are you free from sinning? Paul said of himself, "I am the chief of sinners." Not "I was".

Set free from the Law of sin and death. Our old man crucified with with HIM that the Body of Sin be destroyed. That Hence forth we should not serve sin.

You love giving the impression you are not a "slave" to sin, and yet we both know you sin every single day of your life.

 

[Endoscopy]

Amen, Even thr great prophet Isaiah fell to his knees, considering himself a man of unclean lips. As did Daniel and John when they met just an angel. And these people think they will stand proudly when they see God..

In their dreams!

One prophecy states at judgement time many of those who rejected Jesus will ask for a mountain to fall on them rather than face judgment!

 

[Endoscopy]

Do you still sin? Then you're walking after the flesh. And you'll never be able to escape that fact, no matter how you try to twist it.



Are you free from sinning? Paul said of himself, "I am the chief of sinners." Not "I was".



You love giving the impression you are not a "slave" to sin, and yet we both know you sin every single day of your life.

Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear. Too many people don't know what the law states.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah. Maimonides counted and documented them. No one has found any more.

The 613 laws of God.
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Discussion of the 613 laws of God
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[BillG]

The first line of your signature reminds me of the hymn "Saved by Grace". It contains the line "saved a wretch like me". The author was the captain of a slave ship. At times during a bad storm captains would have some cargo thrown overboard to keep the ship afloat. He did this with some of the slaves he was carrying at times. Later he became a Christian and then wrote this song about himself.

Amazing Grace that saved a wretch like.

How beautiful and humbling that God loved me so much th at he hung on the cross for me.

I once was lost but now I see.

Jesus said "It is finished"

He finished it for you and for me.
For those who will and would accept him as Lord and saviour.

Just like the thief on the cross.

Thank you Jesus.

 

[Budman]

But BM, the Christ of the Bible already "tacked on" requirements to receive this Gift

Faith in Him is the only requirement.

"Not everyone who claims belief (calls Him "Lord" , supreme in authority) receives His Free Gift.

I'm not disputing that at all. There are certainly false converts. There are plenty of those who claim to be Christians through faith, but instead think that doing good works will ensure their ultimate salvation.

What is more important, letting the Word's of the Christ guide our footsteps, or religious tradition guiding our footsteps?

You consistently confuse Jesus speaking of the saved and the unsaved. Your discernment is rather abysmal.

 

[gb9]

Faith in Him is the only requirement.



I'm not disputing that at all. There are certainly false converts. There are plenty of those who claim to be Christians through faith, but instead think that doing good works will ensure their ultimate salvation.



You consistently confuse Jesus speaking of the saved and the unsaved. Your discernment is rather abysmal.

Jesus summed it up as plain as possible- those who believe are saved, those who do not believe are condemned.

that's it. all these other options that folks come up with are in denial of this plain language.

 

[J70x7]

A presumptuous person thinks this fleshly body is saved even though, after this life, this fleshly body will no longer exist. Salvation never takes place in this mortal body.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus summed it up as plain as possible- those who believe are saved, those who do not believe are condemned.

that's it. all these other options that folks come up with are in denial of this plain language.

Amen, either or. Not one of these two or many other ways

 

[J70x7]

A presumptuous person thinks they can deny Christ, by believing incorrect doctrine, and still get to heaven.

 

[BillG]

Amen brother

Thinking they are making God happy. They are in reality shaming God and making a mockery of he cross.

What I really do not get is that if we could be perfect and be obedient enough to earn our salvation then Jesus would have said so.

"Right I have shown you how to do it no go do it and now I'm going back to the Father"

I have a picture in my mind regarding my last sentence.

It's Jesus looking back and saying "By the way good luck with that with a smile"

 

[Budman]

Jesus summed it up as plain as possible- those who believe are saved, those who do not believe are condemned.

that's it. all these other options that folks come up with are in denial of this plain language.

Spot on, gb9!

 

[gb9]

think about this- the Disciples were still pestering Jesus about Israel just moments before he ascended.

the jews of Christ's time were expecting the Messiah to defeat Rome and restore David's kingdom.

but, what did the angel say of Jesus- " he will save His people from their sins".

that is what was said.

what was not said - " He will show His people how to properly keep the Torah, and that will save them from their sins."

 

[BillG]

think about this- the Disciples were still pestering Jesus about Israel just moments before he ascended.

the jews of Christ's time were expecting the Messiah to defeat Rome and restore David's kingdom.

but, what did the angel say of Jesus- " he will save His people from their sins".

that is what was said.

what was not said - " He will show His people how to properly keep the Torah, and that will save them from their sins."

Yes he has saved us from our sins.
Our sin that separates us from God.
It is finished and the temple curtain was torn in two.
As a result we can come before the Father, to the most holy place.
The throne of God, Abba Father.

Yes ABBA FATHER.

The father and son walking together in relationship.
I love you dad I love you son

 

[J70x7]

Faith in Him is the only requirement.



I'm not disputing that at all. There are certainly false converts. There are plenty of those who claim to be Christians through faith, but instead think that doing good works will ensure their ultimate salvation.



You consistently confuse Jesus speaking of the saved and the unsaved. Your discernment is rather abysmal.

[19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[mailmandan]

[19] Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.