IF there was a Rapture at the start off a 7 year tribulation period, then

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YehovaYeshua

New member
#1
Dec 10, 2018
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#1
IF there were a Rapture at the START of a 7-year tribulation period, then we would be able to calculate the exact date of Jesus's return and appearance in glory to earth, wouldn't we, i.e., 7 years after the date of the Rapture.

But the Bible says that no man knows the hour and even Jesus said that on THAT MATTER ONLY the Father knows the hour and day of Jesus's return.

Mark 13:32-33
But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Take you heed, watch and pray: FOR YOU KNOW NOT WHEN THE TIME IS.

Therefore there can be NO Rapture at the start of a 7-year tribulation period because we would know how to calculate the day of His return 7 years later.

YehovaYeshua
 
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#2
Aug 3, 2018
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#2
"FOR YOU KNOW NOT" is in the "perfect tense"... which means, basically, until/unless further information is disclosed that can change that status (which is what I believe the LATER "[Book of] Revelation" is all about, when it says in verse 1, "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM, TO SHEW unto His servants [ex. 7:3] things which must come to pass [comp. 4:1, the future things/aspects] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…"). I believe Jesus has known perfectly ever since His Resurrection/Ascension, and has disclosed further information on THAT very subject in the [later] "Revelation" [95ad, or thereabouts], i.e. timing issues regarding His Second Coming to the earth [which is the subject being covered in the "day and hour knoweth no man [not even Jesus]" passages, and here in Mark12:32-33, etc. These passages are not stating that no one CAN ever know, or that no one WILL ever know... That is not what "knoweth/knows [perfect tense]" means...



[I believe this may very well be a part of what "the wise [of Israel, per the context] SHALL UNDERSTAND"--in the "knowledge shall be increased" context of Daniel 12 (context being that future specific time period)]
 
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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#3
Aug 3, 2018
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#3
^ EDIT: Mark13:32-33, I meant...

"knoweth [perfect tense] no man" is not conveying "I forbid anyone to ever know" or "no one will/can ever know" or the like...

It has to do with the chronology issues... and what has been disclosed when.

I believe Jesus indeed knows, and has disclosed that "further information" in The Revelation [95ad]
 
S

Sherril

Guest
#5
#5
I was thinking:) that we can not know the day or hour because the times in different parts of the world and the days would be off...like in china would be diff. then here in the USA, and the time would be vastly diff...yet we are to know the times and seasons we are in through Gods word and prophecy of things to come...love in Christ Sherril..:) 27337116_1621023237978460_7865249699888828848_n.jpg
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#6
Jul 24, 2016
7,605
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#6
YehovaYeshua said:
IF there were a Rapture at the START of a 7-year tribulation period, then we would be able to calculate the exact date of Jesus's return and appearance in glory to earth, wouldn't we, i.e., 7 years after the date of the Rapture.

But the Bible says that no man knows the hour and even Jesus said that on THAT MATTER ONLY the Father knows the hour and day of Jesus's return.

Mark 13:32-33
But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Take you heed, watch and pray: FOR YOU KNOW NOT WHEN THE TIME IS.

Therefore there can be NO Rapture at the start of a 7-year tribulation period because we would know how to calculate the day of His return 7 years later.

YehovaYeshua
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True..

The Rapture happens on the day of the return of our LORD Jesus Christ... That's after the tribulation.. At the final trumpet..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#9
#9
There is a huge problem with this line of thinking

1. No one knows the time the raputure will occure (the context of the words, no man knows the hour)
2. If it is mid trib; Then all we have to do is calculate 3.5 years after the leader of rome confirms a 7 year covenant
3. if it is post trib, then it is 7 years past this date, or 3.5 years past the time of the abomination which causes desolation.

So your argument works against you, Not with you.

The ONLY interpretation which fulfills this scripture is pre-trib. Because know one can know that day this starts or when the rapture (catching up) of Gods people will occure

As for Gods return to earth to destroy rome, We are told all through scripture when that will happen. That is no secret
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#10
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#10
RickyZ said:
Hey! We agree on something!
Click to expand...
I am sure that we agree on more than that.........Like....

Jesus is Lord
Jesus is God
Jesus is Christ

My beef with you bro has always been over the belief that Salvation can be lost or forfeit....and in my view there are too many verses, promises etc. that must be denied to come to that conclusion.

Peace mate!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#11
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#11
eternally-gratefull said:
There is a huge problem with this line of thinking

1. No one knows the time the raputure will occure (the context of the words, no man knows the hour)
2. If it is mid trib; Then all we have to do is calculate 3.5 years after the leader of rome confirms a 7 year covenant
3. if it is post trib, then it is 7 years past this date, or 3.5 years past the time of the abomination which causes desolation.

So your argument works against you, Not with you.

The ONLY interpretation which fulfills this scripture is pre-trib. Because know one can know that day this starts or when the rapture (catching up) of Gods people will occure

As for Gods return to earth to destroy rome, We are told all through scripture when that will happen. That is no secret
Click to expand...
I used to believe the Roman deal until I came to the conclusion that "Rome's" part is the unification of Christian (so called) religions with the false prophet being the last pope and the one that makes the image of the Beast of Islam and points all toward the beast as God.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
#12
dcontroversal said:
I used to believe the Roman deal until I came to the conclusion that "Rome's" part is the unification of Christian (so called) religions with the false prophet being the last pope and the one that makes the image of the Beast of Islam and points all toward the beast as God.
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The prince of the people who destroy the temple and city is the final beast.

Islam did not destroy any temple of Israel or the city of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Also. Daniel was told of 4 kingdoms (Babylon, Media Persia, Greece, Rome 1 and Rome 2, who will be destroyed at the return of Christ.

I have to stick with what Gabriel said bro..
 
Y

YDo

Active member
#13
Dec 9, 2018
151
60
28
#13
I appreciate the passage that was posted already and which appears in at least two different locations in the New Testament. That no one knows the date or hour of the second coming of the son of man.
I'd like to add this one. Jesus replied, "It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority " Acts 1:7

For me in my experience I've come across people who believe we are in the tribulation now. And given world events and particularly on a personal note as an American, American contemporary history unfolding day to day, I can see how they'd arrive at that conclusion.
While it is easy to compare today's news with foretelling as relates to the second coming, the rapture, and all of it, why accept God's words above and still try to calculate the end times events? Why not live our life in this world following Christ's leading and be happily surprised if he shows up. Or, until we're over and find out the truth to the question we've all been living for?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#14
Dec 12, 2013
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#14
eternally-gratefull said:
The prince of the people who destroy the temple and city is the final beast.

Islam did not destroy any temple of Israel or the city of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Also. Daniel was told of 4 kingdoms (Babylon, Media Persia, Greece, Rome 1 and Rome 2, who will be destroyed at the return of Christ.

I have to stick with what Gabriel said bro..
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Me too and the 1st beast does not come from Rome.......and Rome devolves into a Iron Clay mix that does not stay together and the beast comes from what Alexander conquered, then divided and out of the area conquered and maintained by the King of the North and is called the Assyrian, not the Roman!
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#17
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#17
YehovaYeshua said:
Mark 13:32-33
But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.Take you heed, watch and pray: FOR YOU KNOW NOT WHEN THE TIME IS.
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rolleye.gif

This is typical dumb futurist/dispensation thinking - Jesus said this prior his Ascension - so according to this manner of thinking Jesus been sat up wondering when the supposed "rapture" was to happen.

He told John when things were gonna happen:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

(Rev 1:3 .................... for the time is at hand.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
#18
dcontroversal said:
1st beast of Revelation a.k.a. Little Horn of Daniel
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ahh, If it is the final beast empire. It is rome Daniel did not mention any other gentile kingdom
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#19
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#19
eternally-gratefull said:
ahh, If it is the final beast empire. It is rome Daniel did not mention any other gentile kingdom
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Why do you suppose Daniel devotes two chapters of 12 to the division of Alexander's empire by his 4 generals and then all the way down to the wars between the kings of the north and south while culminating it with Antiocus/blended with the Little Horn.....? And then states the little horn will come out of the area conquered by the king of the NORTH I.E. Syria, Iraq, Turkey area....??

In all humility you are missing a bigger picture by going to seed on Rome which does have a part to play in the False Prophet......

Also....how can the Little Horn A.K.A anti Christ be tied to the Jews and worship a God his FATHER'S did not KNOW if he is Roman?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#20
Nov 23, 2013
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#20
TheDivineWatermark said:
"FOR YOU KNOW NOT" is in the "perfect tense"... which means, basically, until/unless further information is disclosed that can change that status (which is what I believe the LATER "[Book of] Revelation" is all about, when it says in verse 1, "[The] Revelation of Jesus Christ WHICH GOD GAVE UNTO HIM, TO SHEW unto His servants [ex. 7:3] things which must come to pass [comp. 4:1, the future things/aspects] IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…"). I believe Jesus has known perfectly ever since His Resurrection/Ascension, and has disclosed further information on THAT very subject in the [later] "Revelation" [95ad, or thereabouts], i.e. timing issues regarding His Second Coming to the earth [which is the subject being covered in the "day and hour knoweth no man [not even Jesus]" passages, and here in Mark12:32-33, etc. These passages are not stating that no one CAN ever know, or that no one WILL ever know... That is not what "knoweth/knows [perfect tense]" means...



[I believe this may very well be a part of what "the wise [of Israel, per the context] SHALL UNDERSTAND"--in the "knowledge shall be increased" context of Daniel 12 (context being that future specific time period)]
Click to expand...
I would say you’re right about “until further information is disclosed”.

Mar 13:30 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

We can know for sure it’s already happened and no I don’t think Jesus the exact day and hour he would be crucified and raised.

How much more clearer can Jesus make it that he was talking about those things happening around his death and resurrection?

The fig tree putting forth leaves.
Fig tree casting its untimely fruit.
This generation shall not pass.
Jesus as a man not knowing the day or hour.
Lest suddenly he finds you sleeping.

Seriosly what more could have said without out and out saying it?
 
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