Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

There were many drunkards and poor people in Christ's time that He had the power to help, but didn't.

Your post is the perfect example of the defense of those in Matt. 7:23.

I might remind you it isn't a sin to drink or gamble. A man might be consumed with these things which can cause sin, but these things are not sin.

Creating images of God in the likeness of man is sin. Rejecting God's Sabbath is sin. Creating your own "Feasts unto the Lord" is sin.

So while your "works" of feeding random poor people in Christ's Name surely looks righteous, and surly causes you to receive the praise of man, if a person practices "Lawlessness" Jesus doesn't know you. His Word's not mine. Isn't this exactly what Jesus was speaking to in Matt. 7?

I say these things not to anger you, but as the Christ did to those who created their own Righteousness in His Time, to shake you a little so can see the Elephant in the room, and humble yourself under the Mighty Hand of God.

Hello forum, I challenge anyone here to read through Studyman's post and tell me you cannot see a thoroughly selfish man who lacks concern for those people less fortunate than Studyman's, who find that their life is unraveling and spinning downward and out of control. They need a Savior like right now.

The poison that proceeds from Studyman's words is exactly how the Pharisee's view people who fell below their social status. And this is why Jesus pronounced "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees"

Studyman has no room for humility because it will just interfere with, and leave no room for, his enormous pride. And God forbid anyone should sin an violate one of Studymans' special categories of sin, oh my goodness no.

Quote Studyman said: Post#78,534
There were many drunkards and poor people in Christ's time that He had the power to help, but didn't.

I might remind you it isn't a sin to drink or gamble. A man might be consumed with these things which can cause sin, but these things are not sin.

Creating images of God in the likeness of man "is sin." Rejecting God's Sabbath "is sin." Creating your own "Feasts unto the Lord" "is sin."

So while your "works" of feeding random poor people in Christ's Name surely looks righteous, and surly causes you to receive the praise of man, if a person practices "Lawlessness" Jesus doesn't know you. His Word's not mine. Isn't this exactly what Jesus was speaking to in Matt. 7?

I say these things not to anger you, but as the Christ did to those who created their own Righteousness in His Time, to shake you a little so can see the Elephant in the room, and humble yourself under the Mighty Hand of God.

 

[VCO]

Other City and County Ordinances that Men habitually VIOLATE.

1 Peter 2:13-15 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--

 

[O_Dude123]

The truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.

These deceivers will REJECT and NULLIFY the Word and believe the deceiving spirits.(Isaiah 5:20-24, Mark 7:6-13)

...while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:13

...THE SPIRIT CLEARLY SAYS that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through HYPOCRITICAL LIARS, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 1 Timothy 4:1-2

How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?

We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.

Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?

..But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10‭-‬14‭, ‬24

...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13‭-‬15

...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6‭-‬7

...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”...
Genesis 3:1‭-‬19

Just think what could have happened if Eve did not believe the serpents deception but OBEYED God instead. ...NO NEED TO DISCUSS SALVATION FOR SURE because no one needs to be saved.

The truth is that Adam and Eve were created according to the image of God's righteousness and holiness and they BELIEVE and OBEY God until they got DECEIVED and disobeyed God.

Did God warn us about the deception? If He did, then why resist them?

... HE WILL PUNISH THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD AND DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION...
2 Thessalonians 1:8-11

So who would say now that OBEDIENCE TO GOD HAS NO BEARING IN SALVATION?

The Evil one will say that, the grace of the evil one.

That was the lie He told eve.

If you disobey you shall not surely die..

Genesis 3:4-5 (KJV)
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

[lightbearer]

Hello forum, I challenge anyone here to read through Studyman's .

Might I suggest a thread or a forum where a gossip, backbiting, defaming people can spout their tripe rather than flood the forum with it.

There were many drunkards and poor people in Christ's time that He had the power to help, but didn't.

Your post is the perfect example of the defense of those in Matt. 7:23.

I might remind you it isn't a sin to drink or gamble. A man might be consumed with these things which can cause sin, but these things are not sin.

However It is a sin to be drunk. And the money one would gamble with is not theirs it is GOD's.

1Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Cor 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cor 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

We are to do all we do to the glory of GOD.

We are not to put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall before our brethren. So if my brother is offended (caused to stumble: sin due to an addicted or excessive nature ) by my meat (my drinking or gambling, etc; etc ) I will eat no flesh (not drink or gamble, etc.) while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend (to stumble; sin). 1Cor 8:13

Mark 9:42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a huge millstone tied around his neck and to be thrown into the sea.

 

[posthuman]

Might I suggest a thread or a forum where a gossip, backbiting, defaming people can spout their tripe rather than flood the forum with it.

we could call it, "not by works"

 

[posthuman]

Mark 9:42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a huge millstone tied around his neck and to be thrown into the sea.

would 'causing to sin' include trying to indoctrinate someone into a pseudo-faith which contradict this?

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
(Galatians 5:16-18)​

​

 

[lightbearer]

would 'causing to sin' include trying to indoctrinate someone into a pseudo-faith which contradict this?

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. ​

(Galatians 5:16-18)​

​

Sure. But please let's Not deter the context to which the post was posted to Studyman.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes he did, But he did not contradict himself

John did not say, If I come to you and claim I am without sin, I am decieved and there is no truth in me, Then later say, I am saved so I can not sin.

Anyone who understands what true sin is, KNOWS they are not sinless. Paul did. John did. WHy is it so many others think they are sinless. Where does this thinking come from?

Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10)

 

[preacher4truth]

Might I suggest a thread or a forum where a gossip, backbiting, defaming people can spout their tripe rather than flood the forum with it.

Is this suggested forum a place where you could continue your defamation of others by calling them lost, instead of your doing it on the several forums here now? If so, agreed, we need a separate forum for that. Or, you could grow up and stop doing it altogether? The latter is a much better alternative in my honest opinion, Hebrews 12:14. You could decide to pursue peace with others, or, you could continue your callow misinformed and accusatory diatribes. Up to you my friend.

 

[lightbearer]

Is this suggested forum a place where you could continue your defamation of others by calling them lost, instead of your doing it on the several forums here now? If so, agreed, we need a separate forum for that. Or, you could grow up and stop doing it altogether? The latter is a much better alternative in my honest opinion, Hebrews 12:14. You could decide to pursue peace with others, or, you could continue your callow misinformed and accusatory diatribes. Up to you my friend.

likewise

 

[Argueless]

... HE WILL PUNISH THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD AND DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you. With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.2 Thessalonians 1:8-11

Who are those who DO NOTt KNOW God and DO NOT OBEY the Gospel of our LORD Jesus?

...We know that WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. 1 John 2:3-4

...They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

...They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty
and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:24

...But THE COWARDLY, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.7 Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians5:6

 

[preacher4truth]

... HE WILL PUNISH THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD AND DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you. With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.2 Thessalonians 1:8-11

Who are those who DO NOTt KNOW God and DO NOT OBEY the Gospel of our LORD Jesus?

...We know that WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. 1 John 2:3-4

...They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

...They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty
and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:24

...But THE COWARDLY, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.7 Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians5:6

Great texts on those who are lost, and that describe the difference between the converted and the not. They are not texts on what a person has to start doing to gain eternal life.

 

[gb9]

... HE WILL PUNISH THOSE WHO DO NOT KNOW GOD AND DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS. THEY WILL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you. With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith.2 Thessalonians 1:8-11

Who are those who DO NOTt KNOW God and DO NOT OBEY the Gospel of our LORD Jesus?

...We know that WE HAVE COME TO KNOW HIM IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. 1 John 2:3-4

...They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and unfit for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

...They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and DENY JESUS CHRIST our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty
and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel. Isaiah 5:24

...But THE COWARDLY, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.7 Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians5:6

you guys love to quote 1st John for command keeping.

yet, all you deceivers fail to mention that John said the commands we are to keep are to " believe in the name of the Son and love one another ";

so, trying to deceive people into believing that command keeping saves is violating that command, don't you think?

 

[Argueless]

“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” John 12:47-50

 

[mailmandan]

you guys love to quote 1st John for command keeping.

yet, all you deceivers fail to mention that John said the commands we are to keep are to " believe in the name of the Son and love one another ";

so, trying to deceive people into believing that command keeping saves is violating that command, don't you think?

Confusing descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture remains his achilles’ heel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you guys love to quote 1st John for command keeping.

yet, all you deceivers fail to mention that John said the commands we are to keep are to " believe in the name of the Son and love one another ";

so, trying to deceive people into believing that command keeping saves is violating that command, don't you think?

Its amazing how the world witnessed the danger of self righteousness wiht the jews, and their crucifiction of Christ, here we are 2000 years later and people are still buying into the lie..and rejecting the danger.

 

[Argueless]

you guys love to quote 1st John for command keeping.

yet, all you deceivers fail to mention that John said the commands we are to keep are to " believe in the name of the Son and love one another ";

so, trying to deceive people into believing that command keeping saves is violating that command, don't you think?

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26


...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20


...And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23


...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6


For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29


How can those who CLAIM to be saved thru Faith ALONE suffer for Christ if they believe and insist that no works of any sort is needed, but to believe/faith ALONE is sufficient to be saved.


Does a person who teaches obedience to God cause another person to sin by doing so?


Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?


Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?


Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)

Is it obedience to God to break the law?


Did the Holy servants of God such as the prophets and the apostles OBEYED and taught OBEDIENCE to God?


Who then causes another person to sin?


...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9


...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 john 2:3-6


...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6

 

[Budman]

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26


...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20


...And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23


...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6


For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29


How can those who CLAIM to be saved thru Faith ALONE suffer for Christ if they believe and insist that no works of any sort is needed, but to believe/faith ALONE is sufficient to be saved.


Does a person who teaches obedience to God cause another person to sin by doing so?


Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?


Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?


Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)

Is it obedience to God to break the law?


Did the Holy servants of God such as the prophets and the apostles OBEYED and taught OBEDIENCE to God?


Who then causes another person to sin?


...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9


...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 john 2:3-6


...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6

Then salvation isn't a gift at all, but something to be earned through our own efforts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then salvation isn't a gift at all, but something to be earned through our own efforts.

Amen Bro! So Good to see you!!

 

[Budman]

Amen Bro! So Good to see you!!

Good to see you as well. I see little has changed here!