Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

[Lillywolf]

Would we pass or fail this test?

Matthew 5
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

 

[Dino246]

What do these videos have to do with Christians following Old Testament rules?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

We show the people how Jesus teaches not to teach against even the least of the laws, and they will not hear Him.

We show people in the test of His Word how He teaches the law is not abolished but fulfilled by Him.

I believe Jesus, because I am "under the Messiah," so you who do not believe the above try to be a little more in keeping with His Word......I am simply repeating it with understanding.

If being "under Messiah" is not good enough for you, nothing is.

who are you talking to?

show me where anyone ever stated Jesus is not good enough for us?

show me where anyone ever stated we continue in sin and do not follow Christ?

I won't hold my breath because you can't

for that matter no one ever stated the law is abolished. the law cannot be broken and the only One who accomplished that is Christ

this constant moaning and groaning about what other people are saying is preventing you from seeing the log in your own eye

to follow Christ means to do the good works we were created to do...it means to live a life pleasing to Him

why do you folk constantly deny what is actually said and make up some foolish thing like saying Jesus is not good enough?

we are IN Christ. do you even know what that means?

I predict you have a very hard time understanding certain things because you refuse them because they were written by Paul and few Sabbath keepers seem to accept what Paul writes

you can't make this stuff up

 

[Lillywolf]

who are you talking to?

show me where anyone ever stated Jesus is not good enough for us?

show me where anyone ever stated we continue in sin and do not follow Christ?

I won't hold my breath because you can't

for that matter no one ever stated the law is abolished. the law cannot be broken and the only One who accomplished that is Christ

this constant moaning and groaning about what other people are saying is preventing you from seeing the log in your own eye

to follow Christ means to do the good works we were created to do...it means to live a life pleasing to Him

why do you folk constantly deny what is actually said and make up some foolish thing like saying Jesus is not good enough?

we are IN Christ. do you even know what that means?

I predict you have a very hard time understanding certain things because you refuse them because they were written by Paul and few Sabbath keepers seem to accept what Paul writes

you can't make this stuff up

Sure you can.
Like thinking "Sabbath Keeper" is demeaning.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Are you familiar with the lifestyle and culture of the world God worked in to teach love? No police and no jails. Read some of the laws of the nations other than Hebrew

this is beyond confusing

you do know that the land was under Roman rule at the time, right? everyone had to answer to the Romans

no police? no just stoning to death which they could no longer do because, again, the land was under Roman rule and the Roman garrison was something you did not want to spend the weekend in

no jails? which planet are you talking about...they had jails

seems we should rather ask are YOU familiar with the world of Jesus's day...or earlier

 

[Lillywolf]

Living the "Christian life" doesn't keep you saved. If you believe that, you're trusting in your works, not in Christ. One can never be lost for any reason after salvation because we have no sins attributed to us. We are, and shall remain, as holy as Jesus is. For we possess His righteousness.

Is not living the Christian life a sin? Jesus paid for it already. Is turning away from Jesus a sin? He paid for that one too. Is refusing to serve Him a sin? Guess what?

Yep. Paid for already.

Christians can't go to hell even if they wanted to, because we have no sins left to pay for.

If you have a single sin attributed to you, you are lost and can never be saved, because the Bible said without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Jesus isn't coming back to shed His blood for sin ever again.

We have been perfected forever (Hebrews 10:14). And we have the promise of Jesus that He won't lose a single saved person (John 6:39). Not now, nor in the future (Romans 8:38-39).

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

 

[Budman]

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

What does that have to do with what I posted?

 

[Nehemiah6]

This article brings out some very good points when we ask ourselves this question today.

This article also fails to properly present the difference between the Ten Commandments and the Old Covenant (the Law of Moses).

Reading through the Old Testament can be a jarring experience, even for Christians.

Not really, and especially not for Christians, since "whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." (Rom 15:4)

To someone outside the Church, it looks as though Christians are cherry-picking which verses they want to follow.

So what? Most people do not have a clue about what is in the Bible. Even many Christians are never given a proper understanding of the OT, and some do not even properly understand the New Covenant.

J.D. Greer believes it’s necessary for Christians to educate themselves on the three categories of Old-Testament law.

Actually there are at least seven categories of the OT laws:
1. Moral AND spiritual (the Ten Commandments, which are not just moral). For Christians, these laws are still critial under the New Covenant.
2. Sacrificial laws pertaining to the Levitical priesthood, the sacrifices and offerings, and the tabernacle and temple (which were not merely *ceremonial*)
3. Ceremonial laws pertaining to feasts, festivals, holy days, new moons, sabbaths.
4. Civil laws pertaining to civil matters such as debts.
5. Criminal laws pertaining to crimes such as murder and manslaughter.
6. Dietary laws pertaining to clean and unclean foods.
7. Agricultural laws pertaining to harvests, sabbaths for the land, etc. (one could include the laws for tithing here).

Greer goes on to argue that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus fulfilled the purpose of the law

This is a very superficial take on the meaning of the finished work of Christ. Had he said "fulfilled the Old Covenant" that would have been closer to the truth. How do we know that the Old Covenant was fulfilled and the New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died? The veil separating the Holy Place from the Holiest Place (the Holy of Holies) was torn down supernaturally the minute Christ finished His work of redemption, and then cried "IT IS FINISHED". That was God's stamp of approval on the Cross, and His revelation that the Law of Moses was null and void.

Does this mean that the Old Testament, the Old Covenant, and the Ten Commandments have no significance for Christians? Quite the opposite. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Tim 3:16,17)

 

[JaumeJ]

When I first bought a computer I eventually found my way to Christian discussion forums. I was delighted.
One site was the best site for any Christian to attend. When logging off to begin the work schedule, I was elated. Buoyant, at peace, filled with joy, and it felt as if I was walking inches off the floor. It was a joy to be there. Everyone, without exception, demonstrated what it means to be indwelt with the joy of the holy spirit. That peace that passeth understanding is a feeling that no matter how many years have passed I still recall as I write this.
Then it changed.
The owner from what I was told either passed away and their heir sold the site. Or, they simply sold the site because they were not physically up to keeping it maintained due to failing health. Two stories, likely one a little late on the news the owner they thought was sick had actually died.
After they left the site went down. Fast.
Trolls started showing up making posts as soon as they registered. Grotesque stuff. Porn ad's, etc... In the public announcements forum.
All sorts of wicked thread starts that ran the moderators mad deleting the posts and banning the newbies.

Then they put a waiting period on the registration. The new member had to be approved by a Moderator.
That didn't help.
Rather than wicked ad's the new arrivals were just wicked people. Atheists turns out playing the role I had never heard of till then; POE. They would pretend to be Christian, they would find a Bible site and cherry pick scripture and then enter into a thread that was already underway as a Bible discussion. Or, they would start a thread. They'd use the scripture they copied to insist all sorts of pathetic truths surrounded "the word".
Without exception they were ill behaved from start to finish. No kind words ever toward anyone that would challenge their position.
Eventually all the original members left. New moderators entered that assumed sock-accounts, dual accounts that made them appear as if they were not that one known by the moderator pseudonym. Initially they did this to not intimidate an open discussion if members replying thought a moderator were involved.
But in a very short time, returning to the site as some of us did, registering a new name, to see if the atmosphere could be brought back to what it once was, we'd find those moderators would be the worst sort under those pseudonyms. Because by then the site had been sold I think at least twice prior. And now the owner sold out to advertiser space. No control over who advertised mind you. So again advertisements unfit for a Christian community appeared.
Thank God for Ad-Block.

Then, after I think it was another sale, some of us returned unaware of that handover to find those Advertisements were now appearing peppered throughout threads. The more pages accrued, the more advertising $pace sold to make the current owner more money. As you can imagine, the trolling types insured page counts increased for the $. Those were the sock accounts belonging to the moderators turns out. Because they were related to the owner as family.

It became a Hell hole. And its reputation on the net spread due to members being banned due to the current owner being Catholic.
They sold again and it never got better. The owner wasn't Catholic but the site was still Hell. That family has two more communities active on the net. They all operate the same way. Badly.

Today it is still on the net. And today there are review streams all over the place that forewarn people not to go there if they are Christian.
The real heartbreak is what it once was is dead and gone .And its like has never been found by any of us who were those original members that remain networked so as to alert one another should we be so blessed to happen on a place like the place we use to know.

The manna of Heaven tastes dirt to demons. The light and peace of Christ hurts the reptilian eyes of the trolling wicked that seek to spread their vile shadow into sanctuaries dedicated to the God of lights and turn it dark as soon as possible. And their disguise often enough is to claim they are Christian. Especially, non-denominational. That way they are never found out when they don't know the means of worship certain denominations practice.
And then they go to work in their air of pretend. They weren't unique to that forum I spoke of. That forum was just one stop on their road to Hell. But they breed you know. They go back to their little nest from whence they sprang, atheist forums, chat sites, or school, and talk about what fun it is to mess with Christians. And how seriously they're taken when they put on a good show that always is intentioned to conflict with the truth of God's word and mercy. These aren't those seekers or new arrivals that are unaware of God's word and salvation and are genuinely at a site to learn what it means to be in Christ. These are people that no matter what degree of focus actual Christians commit to educating their errant scripture references and proclamations , refuse to deviate from that wrong understanding. And instead work harder to push their "belief".
And it is all to cause chaos and seek to lead those who are in peace into that one's state of mind in response.

I share this because any Bible forum , any Christian discussion board, are a target of these type pretenders. If you know their MO you know what you're dealing with.
They think Christians are weak because we're told to love our enemies and turn the other cheek. So they dig in as strong enemies and take satisfaction in smacking us around with regularity. They hope we'll respond as they do. We'll become what they are. And then they will "win" in proving there really is no peace in Christ.

I was a moderator of a forum, not the one I mentioned. We learned a great deal as new staffers about those type demon POE's.
Then I decided to turn the tables after finding a thread in a search engine quite by accident wherein an Atheist forum had a thread bragging about the steps one could take to be their very best POE amid Christians.
I joined the Atheist forum and posed to see how the enemy behaved and thought about such things. They're not intelligent in the least because they imagined their tactics published on a public forum was a secret from the Christians they'd harass when they joined their forums pretending to be Christian.
I PM'd the link to the thread to my fellow moderators, the administrators, and the owner. And they in turn did the same in a network of such overseers of Christian discussion communities so that everyone on their email tree at that time was made aware.

If you call the Devil by name it flees from you because it cannot survive in the light.

This post is my hope of shining a Halogen beam onto the very real fact those type devils I describe are still at it.
And you will know them by their posts.

No one comes to Christ but the Father calls them. Perhaps such demonic masses that sit before computers in their dark little holes are actually there because they're heartbroken Jesus will never know their name. So they wreak havoc while they still have time.

To God be the glory.
Satan was there when the Book was written. He knows the ending. His disciples likely shall be surprised.

You do not post much, do you? This is a wonderful, and I believe, spirit-inspired post, God bless you and thank you for taking the time to voice this truth in Jesus Yeshua, may you always be so well blessed, amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

who are you talking to?

show me where anyone ever stated Jesus is not good enough for us?

show me where anyone ever stated we continue in sin and do not follow Christ?

I won't hold my breath because you can't

for that matter no one ever stated the law is abolished. the law cannot be broken and the only One who accomplished that is Christ

this constant moaning and groaning about what other people are saying is preventing you from seeing the log in your own eye

to follow Christ means to do the good works we were created to do...it means to live a life pleasing to Him

why do you folk constantly deny what is actually said and make up some foolish thing like saying Jesus is not good enough?

we are IN Christ. do you even know what that means?

I predict you have a very hard time understanding certain things because you refuse them because they were written by Paul and few Sabbath keepers seem to accept what Paul writes

you can't make this stuff up

I pray you are saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God, all blessings amen.

 

[TMS]

The OT laws came into lots of categories but i don't try to divide them up, Rather i ask myself what is still relevant. What laws does God want me to keep and obey.

Some say Love is the only law, others say every law, but i say that by prayer and study we can understand which laws have past and which laws are relevant.

The OT has so many laws and i know that some don't apply today because Paul made it clear. Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Rom_2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Circumcision was a physical sign for the Jews and we are now Jews spiritually by faith so the outward sign is not needed anymore.

Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

From this i can understand that Christ is the sacrifice. A better offering that enables me to be forgiven so i don't need to offer lambs and Goats. The sanctuary and laws around these are fulfilled in Christ.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. .....
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Like circumcision the sacrifices are no longer of any value (they could never take away sin), Jesus is the Sacrifice that we believe in our hearts and minds.

i won't go through each law but i look at the laws like loving council from a loving Father that is protecting us from Sin. Sin = death, and God wants us to be free from the consequences of sin so they are not rules to restrict us but rules to save us.
If you love God you will obey the commandments He gave us.

The laws about diet are a contentious topic and i have heard some of the arguments to say we came eat what we want today. They are weak, because God gave the dietary laws to His people because He love them and wanted them to be healthy people. All my research into the clean food diet vs the unclean meats reveals that God knew what He was talking about when He divided them. It wasn't just an outward symbol, they were healthier for it. If i love my God and value my body i will listen to His wise counsel and only eat the clean foods, so that i can serve my God better.

 

[JaumeJ]

Determining which are relevant t is tantamount to "dividing them up."

Also, why to most people run to just reading about the Law in the OT? Are they ot aware of the prophets, the writngs, and let us not forget the wisdom and propphecy also found in the law?

Always keep in mind for almost three hundred eyars the first believers learned of Jesus from the OT.......also bear in mind the NT and the OT are named by men, it is One Book,...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I pray you are saved by the Blood of the Lamb of God, all blessings amen.

is that how your mind works?

someone points out the fallacy of your mashup of the testaments and you declare they are not saved?

frankly, I find it more than a little sad that you think so little of this, that you toss it at me and deceitfully declare I am not saved

Sabbath keepers do not respect the New Testament, they declare Paul's letters of little value and when you point any of this out, they will tell you that you are not saved

 

[JaumeJ]

is that how your mind works?

someone points out the fallacy of your mashup of the testaments and you declare they are not saved?

frankly, I find it more than a little sad that you think so little of this, that you toss it at me and deceitfully declare I am not saved

Sabbath keepers do not respect the New Testament, they declare Paul's letters of little value and when you point any of this out, they will tell you that you are not saved

It is obvious you are obsessed with what you have to say, so continue, meanwhile I am praying for your comprehencion and for you. All blessings in Jesus Christ...j

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Determining which are relevant t is tantamount to "dividing them up."

Also, why to most people run to just reading about the Law in the OT? Are they ot aware of the prophets, the writngs, and let us not forget the wisdom and propphecy also found in the law?

Always keep in mind for almost three hundred eyars the first believers learned of Jesus from the OT.......also bear in mind the NT and the OT are named by men, it is One Book,...

well that is not so. Paul's writings? John's? everyone elses?

again, refusing to acknowledge anything after the gospels has blinded you to the fact Christ fulfilled the law and Gentiles were never included

you assume so much without offering anything close to the facts.

for example:

why do you assume no one but you has read the OT?

the OT is an excellent basis for the new and I have always said that if someone really wants to understand the NT, they do need the foundation of the old

you cannot tell the truth here to save your life!

it is childish nonsense to state that believers had only the OT for 300 hundred years.

what an incredible denial of both scripture and history!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

It is obvious you are obsessed with what you have to say, so continue, meanwhile I am praying for your comprehencion and for you. All blessings in Jesus Christ...j

are you OK?

no really...are you ok?

your personal comments are both silly and sadly typical of what you do

try to stick to the actual things people post.

your anger is getting the best of you

 

[JaumeJ]

are you OK?

no really...are you ok?

your personal comments are both silly and sadly typical of what you do

try to stick to the actual things people post.

your anger is getting the best of you

Please stop making personal attacks on people who post with whom you do not agree. God bless you to understand this is wrong. All blessings in Jesus Christ…..ja

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Here is a post concerning the Sabbath and believers. It is from one of the MANY threads Sabbath keepers have instituted and I do mean MANY.

This post by mailmandan, and from July of this year

The Sabbath was not offered to all the nations. It was given only to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - “Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 “So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.

The Sabbath was given for us to rest, not for man to be burdened with a lot of regulations to keep.
Sabbath keeping with all it's regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on the Church under the New Covenant (Romans 14:5; Galatians 4:9-11; Colossians 2:16-17).

Please quote a scripture from Jesus or the Apostles, that instruct the Church as to how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.
There are no instructions for the Church on how to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant because the Sabbath was for Israel under the Old Covenant (Exodus 35:1-3) and not the Church under the New Covenant.

 

[JaumeJ]

well that is not so. Paul's writings? John's? everyone elses?

again, refusing to acknowledge anything after the gospels has blinded you to the fact Christ fulfilled the law and Gentiles were never included

you assume so much without offering anything close to the facts.

for example:

why do you assume no one but you has read the OT?

the OT is an excellent basis for the new and I have always said that if someone really wants to understand the NT, they do need the foundation of the old

you cannot tell the truth here to save your life!

it is childish nonsense to state that believers had only the OT for 300 hundred years.

what an incredible denial of both scripture and history!

Could you attmpt to relate you respons to my post actully to my post? Again, you seem obsessed. God bless you and your endeavor. All love in Jesus Christ...j

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Please stop making personal attacks on people who post with whom you do not agree. God bless you to understand this is wrong. All blessings in Jesus Christ…..ja

if you do not want to discuss your Sabbath keeping, why do you constantly bring it up and start threads about it? you have done this over and over and over. you are the one who makes personal remarks in response to objections of what you state regarding the Bible

so if you have such a hard time responding to what is written and instead try to smear other members, perhaps find another topic

of course myself and others will refute this unbiblical teaching! and you know that so try and be civil