The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

[calledoutones777]

Fake news, fake jews.

Yeshua is the proper hebrew name for Jesus. Jesus is the proper english name.

YAHOSHUA is neither hebrew NOR greek NOR english. Its simply a made up name by ignoramuses who dont know anything.
There are so many fake names out there, the sacred namers movement is an absolute joke. If you are fluent in only one language, I would let the scholars do the heavy lifting here...

A PROPHETIC WORD UNTO YOUR STATMENTS... where is the three names OF THE "FATHER" the "WORD" as well as the "HOLY SPIRIT" within the name of YESHUA, in which they had REPLACED MY SAVING NAME WITH, throughout My FATHER'S HOly Scribes/Scriptures. WHERE IS IT within the name of JESUS or YESHUA.

YAH is the FATHER
YOSHUA... is the WORD, who is the SON
AH, is SIGNIFIED by the HOLY SPIRIT.

TOGETHER I AM YAHOSHUA. IF you were to take the "AH" which is SIGNIFIED by the "HOLY SPIRIT" out of MY NAME. IT WOULD LEAVE YOU WITH..... "YOSHUA" who i AM, the WORD that was MADE FLESH and DWELT among YOU..

Now you show ME WHERE in the NAME of JESUS or YESHUA, or ANY OTHER NAME is SHOWING YOU THESE THREE NAMES, that are ONLY IN MY NAME, saith YAHOSHUA. For this is HOW YOU FIND ME. And I tell you this truth this DAY. If My FATHER is BEARING RECORD to MY NAME.. His "WORD is GREATER then MAN'S, and YES, EVEN YOURS, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures...
1John 5:7-13 FOR THERE ARE “THREE" WITNESSES THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE “FATHER", THE “WORD", and THE “HOLY SPIRIT": AND THESE THREE ARE ONE. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the “SPIRIT", and the “WATER" and the “BLOOD": and these THREE all AGREE in “ONE. If we receive the WITNESS of MEN, the “WITNESS" of the FATHER is GREATER: for this is the witness of the FATHER WHICH “HE” HATH “TESTIFIED” of His “SON”. He that believeth on the Son of the FATHER HATH THE “WITNESS” IN “HIMSELF”: he that believeth NOT THE FATHER HATH MADE “HIM”, [meaning the FATHER] A “LIAR"; because he believeth not the RECORD THAT THE FATHER GAVE HIS “SON". AND THIS IS THE “RECORD" THAT THE FATHER HATH GIVEN TO US “ETERNAL LIFE", AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS “SON”. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of the FATHER hath not life. These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE ON THE “NAME" OF THE “SON" of the FATHER; THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE “ETERNAL LIFE", and that ye may believe on the name of the “SON” of the FATHER.

For you have been WARNED. Do not allow yourself to AWAKEN, in a PLACE YOU HAVE NO IDEA, WHEN, WHERE, or HOW YOU GOT THERE, saith YAHOSHUA. for you have now been made ACCOUNTABLE.

Shalom

 

[Hevosmies]

A PROPHETIC WORD UNTO YOUR STATMENTS... where is the three names OF THE "FATHER" the "WORD" as well as the "HOLY SPIRIT" within the name of YESHUA, in which they had REPLACED MY SAVING NAME WITH, throughout My FATHER'S HOly Scribes/Scriptures. WHERE IS IT within the name of JESUS or YESHUA.

YAH is the FATHER
YOSHUA... is the WORD, who is the SON
AH, is SIGNIFIED by the HOLY SPIRIT.

TOGETHER I AM YAHOSHUA. IF you were to take the "AH" which is SIGNIFIED by the "HOLY SPIRIT" out of MY NAME. IT WOULD LEAVE YOU WITH..... "YOSHUA" who i AM, the WORD that was MADE FLESH and DWELT among YOU..

Now you show ME WHERE in the NAME of JESUS or YESHUA, or ANY OTHER NAME is SHOWING YOU THESE THREE NAMES, that are ONLY IN MY NAME, saith YAHOSHUA. For this is HOW YOU FIND ME. And I tell you this truth this DAY. If My FATHER is BEARING RECORD to MY NAME.. His "WORD is GREATER then MAN'S, and YES, EVEN YOURS, saith YAHOSHUA, have you not READ? Fulfilling the FATHER Scriptures...
1John 5:7-13 FOR THERE ARE “THREE" WITNESSES THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE “FATHER", THE “WORD", and THE “HOLY SPIRIT": AND THESE THREE ARE ONE. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the “SPIRIT", and the “WATER" and the “BLOOD": and these THREE all AGREE in “ONE. If we receive the WITNESS of MEN, the “WITNESS" of the FATHER is GREATER: for this is the witness of the FATHER WHICH “HE” HATH “TESTIFIED” of His “SON”. He that believeth on the Son of the FATHER HATH THE “WITNESS” IN “HIMSELF”: he that believeth NOT THE FATHER HATH MADE “HIM”, [meaning the FATHER] A “LIAR"; because he believeth not the RECORD THAT THE FATHER GAVE HIS “SON". AND THIS IS THE “RECORD" THAT THE FATHER HATH GIVEN TO US “ETERNAL LIFE", AND THIS LIFE IS IN HIS “SON”. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of the FATHER hath not life. These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE ON THE “NAME" OF THE “SON" of the FATHER; THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE “ETERNAL LIFE", and that ye may believe on the name of the “SON” of the FATHER.

For you have been WARNED. Do not allow yourself to AWAKEN, in a PLACE YOU HAVE NO IDEA, WHEN, WHERE, or HOW YOU GOT THERE, saith YAHOSHUA. for you have now been made ACCOUNTABLE.

Shalom

You are just basically putting a bunch of falsehoods in God's mouth. Disgusting. Stop at once in the name of Jesus.

To the ignore bin!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Here's what I read regarding G2424 (per Bible Hub):

[G2424, like in Hebrews 4:8] "2424 Iēsoús – Jesus, the transliteration of the Hebrew term, 3091 /Lṓt ("Yehoshua"/Jehoshua, contracted to "Joshua") which means "Yahweh saves" (or "Yahweh is salvation")."

and then H3091 says,

"Transliteration: Yehoshua ; Definition: "the LORD is salvation", Moses' successor, also the name of a number of Isr"

 

[Ahwatukee]

This one is easy. As i was asking this question too someone brought up

Zechariah 14:16
And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

So who populates? The remnant of the nations. Thats the post-trib answer.
But dont pin that on me! Im just repeating what i've read lol

Hello Hevosmies,

And I would also add that, only those great tribulation saints and the woman/Israel who will be cared for out in the wilderness during that last 3 1/2 years, are those who will enter in and repopulate the earth during the millennial kingdom. None of the wicked who survives God's wrath and remains alive when Jesus returns will enter into the millennial kingdom, but will be killed by that double-edged sword - Rev.19:17-18, 21.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Agreed, that ONLY "the righteous" (the "BLESSED") will enter the MK time period. [those born to them later are not "BORN automatically righteous"]

_____

In Scripture, where the phrase "the Day of the Lord" is used in the same context with the phrase "IN THAT DAY," it is referring to the SAME TIME PERIOD.

Such is the case in 2 Thessalonians 2, chpts 1 and 2 (2Th1:10 and 2Th2:2-3).

In that YET FUTURE "time period" ("the Day of the Lord"/"IN THAT DAY") people will either come to believe what is TRUE (2Th1:10b) or they will believe and embrace the "pseudei / the false" (2Th2:10-12). These will be the two choices.

There will still be religious people (those who "come in His name," but who do not possess HIS LIFE [thus were not raptured]) existing on the earth AFTER our Rapture... and these will "put-Scripture-together" but in such a way [being not "understood"] as Satan uses/will use it TO DECEIVE...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT: "Such is the case with 2 Thessalonians, chpts 1 and 2..." [insufficient editing time ]


P.S. more on that (and others) later, when I'm not so busy...

 

[presidente]

Thats just one aspect which should lead people away from post trib

There are many others

1. Why are saints in the throne room, already adorned in their resurrected bodies, and having already recieved their crowns BEFORE the 7th seal is opened.
2. Pre tribbers are also premill. Meaning they believe Jesus will come to earth, set up a kingdom in Jerusalem, ad rule with a rod of iron for a thousand years (interpret thousand however you desire) Yet what kingdom? If Jesus returns, Kills all non belivers, and rapures all believers who is left? Who "endured to the end" so they could be saved and enter the kingdom age? There is no one left. I guess maybe God will create a new adam and eve? to repopulate the earth and start over with them/

Thare are many more. Just because they have scripture that APPEARS to support their view. does not mean it does. Anyone can pick verses out of scripture and make up almost any doctrine they wish..

First of all, I take the straightforward didactic texts as a baseline to interpret apocalyptic literature. In Paul's writings, the rapture occurs at the parousia. The resurrection occurs at the parousia.

You should refer to specific verses. Are you talking about the multitude that came out of the great tribulation from every nation? Why would those have been raptured pre-trib? If these are the people you have in mind, you are assuming Revelation is exactly chronological, and that this passage means they have been raptured.

As far as whether God literally wipes out all non-believers at Christ's return. Pretribbers, or at least the version I had taught, allowed for some non-raptured people who aren't resurrected at the end to survive and live as mortals during the tribulation.

I am not seeing any case for pre-trib here.

Also, what crowns are you talking about? The crowns on the elders? Why would you assume they were human, if that is what you are referring to?

 

[presidente]

Post # 31 and Post # 35


Can't be post trib, See post # 31, This would mean we know the hour the lord returns. Also see post # 35, If this is post trib, Jesus has no one left to rule

One of those posts is not a pretrib post, and I responded to the other one. As far as your objection goes, if pre-trib is true, one could count from the day the planes fell down and the buses crashed when the Christian pilots and bus drivers were taken up and know the day. One day, we will know the day anyway, when we see Jesus comes. It hadn't been revealed back in the first century when Jesus knew that.

The rapture is God catching us in the sky.

His return is boots on ground,

I do not know what kind of footwear the Savior may or may not wear. But otherwise, that sounds like an argument for pre-trib. I Thessalonians 4 puts the rapture occuring as the Lord returns, at the parousia. See verse 15.

If a Roman ambassador or emperor came for a 'parousia' visit, does it make sense that he wouldn't come to town, just go outside the city, then run off with the people who come to greet him and escort him into the city? Why would that be called a 'parousia.' He has to go there for it to be parousia, right?

Which coming, His rapture, or his return to earth? Again, 2 different events. If Jesus rapturs us at his second advent, there is no one alive to enter the thousand year reign (again post 35)

Honestly, I don't know what your argument is supposed to be here. I do not know your version of pre-trib. The one I was taught had some unbelieving survivors from Jerusalem who hadn't gone to battle against Christ. It allowed for previously Israelis to survive as mortals, too.

How can we delivered fro the wrath to come, and yet participate fully in the wrath of God immediately following his return to earh as king. Postrib has us not delievered from wrath, but participating fully on Gods wrath on mankind

You are assuming the tough times that the saints will face during the tribulation is 'the wrath to come.' Paul says we are not appointed unto wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

So which is it for the tribulational saints who overcome the Devil by the blood of the Lamb and the word of His testimony. Are they appointed unto wrath, or to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus' Christ? Pretribbers take a phrase out of that verse, out of context.

Also, God was able to pour out wrath on Egypt without spilling it on the saints.

All should be translated in light of the things in Post 31 and 35. Because post trib is impossible. Even 1 thess 1 refutes post trib, because it has us participating in Gods wrath.

It is kind of frustrating talking with pre-tribbers like yourself, honestly, because you are like a broken record. You repeat really weak arguments-- like taking a verse about wrath out of it's clear context, and ignore the didactic passages of scripture.

I would like to see you actually deal with the issue of the parousia. Since the rapture happens at the parousia (I Thes. 4:15), and the man of sin is destroyed at the brightness of the parousia (II Thes. 2:8) how can pre-trib be true? Pretrib has Jesus coming back, then the man of sin coming into power, right? I've never heard of a pretribber not thinking the beast was the man of sin.

There are actual clear teachings of Paul on this. Not all the details are there, but enough to not fit with pre-trib. Then there is no scripture that puts the rapture before the tribulation. It's assumed, and pre-tribbers find little tiny clues that require assumptions-- like the not appointed unto wrath argument, or allegoricalizing 'come up hither'-- when there is direct teaching of scripture that disqualifies pre-trib as being reasonable. The only attempt I've seen at trying to show where the Bible actually places the rapture before the tribulation-- or a scenario consistent with that-- involves redefining the apostasia to be the rapture. Other than that, I've never seen anyone even show a verse or passage that sets the timing before the tribulation.

Then there is the gathering of the saints that is clearly after the tribulation in Matthew 24. Paul calls the rapture the gathering in II Thessalonians 2:1.

Maybe you can not find it because you do not want to?

Hmmm. It's kind of irritating when someone has a theory that doesn't have support and insults or questions the motives of one who has some real evidence. It isn't very persuasive to do so, either. It's annoying at best.

What motivation does one have for wanting to go through a tough time like that, or to think of one's children or grandchildren enduring it? I could just as easily ask if you are pre-trib because you do not like the idea of suffering and dying for Jesus.

You can show actual verses, quoting them, and explaining the parts you think teach pre-trib. But my approach is to interpret apocalyptic passages as consistent with didactic passages (like Paul's writings), rather than reading a theory into the apocalytic passages and trying to work Paul's writings around an eschatology.

I also ask what you do with the parousia? Do you think there are two parousia?

I am just asking because I can find many verses that would technically support all 3, if taken alone by themselves.. So saying you can find none already puts up a red flag Others find many, even if they disagree, that technically would support it. Yet you say non, what makes you different?

Can you show an actual passage that puts the timing of the rapture before the tribulation? Matthew 24 is explicit that the gathering of the elect is after the tribulation. Why should I take that to refer to something other than the rapture when Paul calls the rapture the gathering in II Thessalonians 2:1? Where is the passage that sets the timing of the rapture as pre-trib? I've seen people redefine apostasia to arrive at that conclusion, or try to allegoricalize 'Come up hither.' Is there anything more reasonable than either of those alternatives?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

As far as whether God literally wipes out all non-believers at Christ's return. Pretribbers, or at least the version I had taught, allowed for some non-raptured people who aren't resurrected at the end to survive and live as mortals during the tribulation.

Right (bold). These are who come to faith WITHIN the tribulation period (that is, AFTER our Rapture), and of those, the ones who are still alive at the end of it will enter the MK time period in their mortal bodies (capable of reproducing/bearing children). They are saints/the righteous/the BLESSED who enter the MK time period (not the wicked, as they go away into everlasting punishment).


_____

Matthew 24:29-31 (said to occur AFTER the tribulation of those days) correlates with Isaiah 27:12-13 (note "WHERE" and "WHO" and that it is said "gathered ONE BY ONE" not "AS ONE" [as at our Rapture!--the Rapture pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints])

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First of all, I take the straightforward didactic texts as a baseline to interpret apocalyptic literature. In Paul's writings, the rapture occurs at the parousia. The resurrection occurs at the parousia.

You should refer to specific verses. Are you talking about the multitude that came out of the great tribulation from every nation? Why would those have been raptured pre-trib? If these are the people you have in mind, you are assuming Revelation is exactly chronological, and that this passage means they have been raptured.

As far as whether God literally wipes out all non-believers at Christ's return. Pretribbers, or at least the version I had taught, allowed for some non-raptured people who aren't resurrected at the end to survive and live as mortals during the tribulation.

I am not seeing any case for pre-trib here.

Also, what crowns are you talking about? The crowns on the elders? Why would you assume they were human, if that is what you are referring to?

I just go off what Jesus himself said about tribulation. Whoever endurs to the end will be saved. (Non believers do not endure to the end.) The believers enter the kingdom with him. And become the nations jesus will rule..No unsaved person will enter the kingdom age, to even think they will is to fail to understand the meaning of the wrath of God. Or the kingdom age.
As far as some unsaved people allowing to live past the time Jesus returns. I have never heard this from anyone, and I have studied all views for years.
John tells us in revelation. The number of the dead will be so great birds will feast for a year. These are not believers, they are unbelievers

As far as the crowns. How can you have read revelations and seen the saints adorned in robes, who layed their crowns at the feet of the lamb who saved THEM for their sins.. and who said elders? I did not. Why did you assume I did?

 

[mobius8curve]

I think the OP needs to refresh himself on THIS:

1 Corinthians 13 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Greatest Gift
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a CLANGING CYMBOL. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body [a]to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Also, Jesus told us no man knows the day, yet if I'm a post tribber than I KNOW the day, because it very clearly is going to be 3.5 yrs from the moment the anti-christ parks his keister in the temple, declaring himself to be god.

Try reading the link and you will see that there is another whole year that directly follows the 7 year tribulation when the rapture takes place. There is not one place in this link where I propose a specific day or hour in which the rapture takes place:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

 

[mobius8curve]

I doubt those with hardened positions on a post trib will watch this Pastor do a very good job on why it will be a pre trib rapture, but I'll post it anyway. There are tons of verses in context and passages that indicate a pre trib rapture. Some have asked. So here ya go:

Sorry but I stopped listening to Chuck Missler about 20 years ago when I caught him speaking an outright lie in regards to Ivan Panin.

 

[mobius8curve]

"And this is what I have sent, not only My Prophetess unto you to tell you. I have sent thy Elect Sister, who is also My BRIDE, for she knows her HUSBANDS NAME, saith YAHOSHUA, who is the Christ meaning the ANOINTED ONE, unto YOU, who are of the GENTILE NATIONS/NATIONALITIES of the WORLD, called MANKIND, ....."

OK,where is anyplace where Jesus calls us "sister"

I am smelling something here.

Matthew 12:49-50 And he stretched forth his hand towards his disciples, and said, Behold, my mother and my brethren! (50) For whosoever shall do the will of my Father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.

 

[mobius8curve]

No need to apologize. I started in my walk with the Lord believing what I was taught by pretrib pastors. As I got into the word myself I was shown by the Spirit ( who reveals scripture ) things that did not agree with them. I became a mid way triber. But as years went on I realized these preachers also were teaching what they were taught by other man in the bible colleges. Scripture not man brought me to post trib belief.
I see that people confuse the wrath of God with the Trib. You have been a hoot and I love that you took the time to put the Word out there but you know as I know that this, like some other topics, will not be agreed upon until the bulls come home for milking.
I say be ready at all times for the coming of our Lord. I also learned to let scripture interpret scripture. God bless you, you tried.
The important thing is are you saved and are you helping to bring in the harvest. Whoops silly me! Even that we seem to all disagree on. Again until that bulls come home to be milked. Oh how the world must see us

Thank you for the kind words sis! Please feel free to purose other links on my web site and let me know what you think sis whether here or at my email under contacts on the upper right corner on my site

https://sumofthyword.com/

 

[mobius8curve]

16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

your verses and mine point to a prejudgement taking up of Noah.

.........and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

"ark" is a type of heaven. Noah was IN the ark...again,atype of heaven. Noah returned AFTER the flood (judgement over...Noah comes back to earth)

Pssst, you need Noah to LEAVE after Judgement,then immediately return ,like in 3 minutes or so.
The postrib model is seriously ,fatally flawed.

Your stretches in exegesis should alarm you.

Not quite when you actually pay attention to my entire link you see that Noah loaded the ark for 7 days representing seven years of harvesting on the earth that will take place through much tribulation:

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Then on the eighth day which I proved to be a year also which is called "the day of the Lord" and also called "the year of His redeemed" is when the saints are taken up. The last feast called the "end gathering or Feast of Tabernacles is also 8 days long and if you understood what it symbolized you would clearly see a post trib rapture on the morning of the 8th day

Try studying this link:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

 

[mobius8curve]

Postrib is a belief. Provide a single verse supporting postrib rapture.You say you are a bible student and well versed.
Surely you have one verse??

Here are over 100 verses so take your time and please do not drown in the truth:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

 

[mobius8curve]

Post # 31 and Post # 35


Can't be post trib, See post # 31, This would mean we know the hour the lord returns. Also see post # 35, If this is post trib, Jesus has no one left to rule



The rapture is God catching us in the sky.

His return is boots on ground,

2 Different events, Why do I say this? Again, post 35. which answers these questions.


Which coming, His rapture, or his return to earth? Again, 2 different events. If Jesus rapturs us at his second advent, there is no one alive to enter the thousand year reign (again post 35)



How can we delivered fro the wrath to come, and yet participate fully in the wrath of God immediately following his return to earh as king. Postrib has us not delievered from wrath, but participating fully on Gods wrath on mankind



All should be translated in light of the things in Post 31 and 35. Because post trib is impossible. Even 1 thess 1 refutes post trib, because it has us participating in Gods wrath.



Maybe you can not find it because you do not want to? I am just asking because I can find many verses that would technically support all 3, if taken alone by themselves.. So saying you can find none already puts up a red flag Others find many, even if they disagree, that technically would support it. Yet you say non, what makes you different?



I just did, Will you see is the question (Not saying you must agree, but saying you must see why I can not see what you see.)

If you would actually study this link you would see there is a 7 year tribulation of the saints on earth. Then "immediately after the tribulation" the year of wrath commences in which God and His Son pour out their wrath on the vessels of dishonor. 40 days into that wrath is when the saints that are left are raptured up along with the resurrected:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

Nowhere does the scripture teach that every living soul is going to be killed when Jesus comes back at the end of that year of wrath but it does say "he shall rule them with a rod of iron":

Revelation 19:13-16 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (14) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

 

[presidente]

A Prophetic word unto you.. My FATHER WORDS are not to come to make you feel good. For they are as SHARP as a TWO EDGE SWORD... There is no RAPTURE, for YAHOSHUA NEVER PROMISED to do that.

That's interesting, because Paul and his coauthors said, by the word of the Lord, that there would be a rapture.

I Thessalonians 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I do believe God can speak through prophecies. Sometimes, I have gotten a real sense of the Lord speaking prophetically through someone. I do not get that when I read your posts. There are scriptures in the post, but otherwise, I am not getting that sense of a prophecy being spoken. Then there are all these theological issues.

There are also the caps. We are less used to caps and our minds process them more slowly. If you want someone not to read what you write, write it in all caps.

 

[mobius8curve]

Genesis 18:22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. 23 And Abraham came near and said, “Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

Of course we know the answer. God's wrath is NOT for His Children. In fact, the Angels were not ALLOWED to destroy Sodom & Gomorrah UNTIL they forcibly removed Lot.

We are indeed going to have hardships and persecution. BUT those are going to come from the WORLD, NOT God.

God's wrath in Revelation is poured out on the ungodly that reject Jesus Christ. He is NOT going to pour out His WRATH on those that are ALREADY His Children.

Now those that BECOME His Children in the Great Tribulation is another matter. They may get beheaded, and have tribulations, but not even sure THEY will experience the WRATH of God.

If you actually study this link you would see the tribulation is NOT the wrath:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/

 

[mobius8curve]

When Jesus' "Parousia [/Presence]" is "IN THE AIR" [i.e. at our Rapture], He is not (at that same time) in the presence of those on the earth.

"Parousia" must be viewed in its CONTEXT. It is used of BOTH INSTANCES. Depending on "WHERE" and IN WHOSE PRESENCE He is, which is distinct between the time of our Rapture ("IN THE AIR"), and the time of His Second Coming to the earth.

Besides that, the OP (and its subsequent posts) has a number of assumptions that I believe to be incorrect, but will have to come back to address those later (as they are numerous).

The rapture/resurrection takes place "after the tribulation" at the beginning of the year of wrath and the return of Christ onto the earth takes place at the end of the year of wrath! No where in this link did I confuse the two different events as you try to surmise:

https://sumofthyword.com/2016/10/04/the-rapture-of-the-church-is-after-the-tribulation/