Not By Works

[Studyman]

so, here you go, part of my promise from yesterday. light bearer said, on nov. 20, on page 19, post # 372, " so we who have entered into the Gospel also rest from our physical labor on day seven, which is the Sabbath.

so, he or you do not say that you have to keep the Sabbath to be saved, and I am lying and slandering for saying that you and he say that.

well, there it is, clear as day. Sabbath rest for entering the Gospel.

i'll be waiting for my apology . ya'll can p.m. it if you do not want to do it here.

first off, I went to page 19, post 372 on this thread and LB didn't post anything. Not sure where you found this but he is only quoting Heb. 4.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, (Physical Labor) as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So there is a 7th day, and it is His Rest. So people who have entered HIS Rest, has ceased from their own works. Isn't that what LB said. You know G9, LB isn't God. He just believes in God's Words. Why do you hate him so much to make up stuff about him.

And regarding your windy statements:

"and then you will turn right around and say that we have to keep the Sabbath, or keep the Law of Moses to be saved."

An apology is needed no doubt. One from you to LB.

 

[posthuman]

So there is a 7th day, and it is His Rest

you're ignoring Hebrews 4:6-8 to say that. why did you skip from 4 to 10?

and you are supposed to be studying Matthew 17:24-27

how is that going?

 

[gb9]

first off, I went to page 19, post 372 on this thread and LB didn't post anything. Not sure where you found this but he is only quoting Heb. 4.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, (Physical Labor) as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So there is a 7th day, and it is His Rest. So people who have entered HIS Rest, has ceased from their own works. Isn't that what LB said. You know G9, LB isn't God. He just believes in God's Words. Why do you hate him so much to make up stuff about him.

And regarding your windy statements:

"and then you will turn right around and say that we have to keep the Sabbath, or keep the Law of Moses to be saved."

An apology is needed no doubt. One from you to LB.

sorry, I forgot to put this in my post- the thread is " has the law been put aside , if so when. "

page 19 # 372 of that thread.

but, reguardless, he said it.

and as far as Hebrews 4, well, there is this thing called Hebrews 3, and the rest spoken of was Israel refusing to enter into the promised land, because of unbelief .

so, it is not literal command to " keep the Sabbath ".

what did Christ say- " come to me...…. I will give you rest.

what is the writer of Hebrews saying in 3 and 4 of his letter? don't be like Israel and miss the rest.

what rest? Jesus. the only way into the Kingdom.

but, all of this is a moot point, because in Leviticus 26, God the father states that the Covenant made with the fathers of Israel who came out of Egypt.

what covenant ? the one made the Children of Israel at Sinai. what did that contain? the Sabbath command ya'll worship and give so much glory to. worship and glory that should be for Christ.

so, unless you can trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then that Covenant was not made with you.

 

[Studyman]

The thing is given the verses we are looking at they never helped anyone.
They were not the sheep that Jesus commended.
They were rejected because he did not know them.

Did not Jesus say we would do greater things then he did?
Did he not cast out demons, heal the sick, prophesy.

So please tell me what you think the lawlessness they were doing.

I'm a bit confused by your first sentence.
Are you talking about the sheep?

I'm trying not to allow man's religious influence to cloud or corrupt the scriptures. I think you are trying to make the scripture fit a certain religion. No offence meant.

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

For instance you say: "The thing is given the verses we are looking at they never helped anyone."

Who were these "Christians" teaching if not people. Who were they casting devils out of if not people. What one of them would say they weren't helping people.

I think you are missing the point here Bill. THESE people who claimed "belief" in Jesus "THOUGHT" they were helping people. They "THOUGHT" they were saved.

But they were convinced of something that was not true. That is the definition of deceived. This whole chapter is a warning about these things is it not?

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

In this broad way, please answer me on this Billy, do the "MANY" on this path, or way "believe" it leads to destruction? Do you think the leaders of this "WAY" are telling folks "Come follow us on the way to destruction". Or like those in verse 23, were these folks deceived into believing they were "entering eternity". That their leaders were preaching in Christ's name, casting out devils in Christ's name, doing many wonderful works in Christ's name. They just rejected, as did the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, His Commandments.

Isn't Jesus talking about deceivers in this chapter?

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Well isn't "teaching in Christ's name" a good fruit? Isn't casting out devils in Christ's Name a "good fruit"?

Apparently not if one practices lawlessness, at least according to my Savior.

I agree that even though these "Many" who come in Christ's name "believed" they were doing good, because of their "Practice" or "Traditions" which transgressed God's Commandments, He didn't know them. Isn't that the same thing that happened to the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's Time?

And it was Jesus who said they practiced Lawlessness. I am assuming He is talking about God's Laws. If you have evidence to the contrary, please share it with me.

Thank you so much for the conversation.

 

[Studyman]

sorry, I forgot to put this in my post- the thread is " has the law been put aside , if so when. "

page 19 # 372 of that thread.

but, reguardless, he said it.

and as far as Hebrews 4, well, there is this thing called Hebrews 3, and the rest spoken of was Israel refusing to enter into the promised land, because of unbelief .

so, it is not literal command to " keep the Sabbath ".

what did Christ say- " come to me...…. I will give you rest.

what is the writer of Hebrews saying in 3 and 4 of his letter? don't be like Israel and miss the rest.

what rest? Jesus. the only way into the Kingdom.

but, all of this is a moot point, because in Leviticus 26, God the father states that the Covenant made with the fathers of Israel who came out of Egypt.

what covenant ? the one made the Children of Israel at Sinai. what did that contain? the Sabbath command ya'll worship and give so much glory to. worship and glory that should be for Christ.

so, unless you can trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then that Covenant was not made with you.

What "HE" are you addressing here G9? If you are talking about the Word of God which became Flesh in the person of Jesus, who created all things including His 7th day Rest. then yes, this Christ created a SABBATH Rest for His people.

And I have come to Him and His Rest, and have ceased from my works every 7th day, as Jesus ceased from carpentering on God's Holy Sabbath Day.

sorry, I forgot to put this in my post- the thread is " has the law been put aside , if so when. "

page 19 # 372 of that thread.

but, reguardless, he said it.

and as far as Hebrews 4, well, there is this thing called Hebrews 3, and the rest spoken of was Israel refusing to enter into the promised land, because of unbelief .

so, it is not literal command to " keep the Sabbath ".

what did Christ say- " come to me...…. I will give you rest.

what is the writer of Hebrews saying in 3 and 4 of his letter? don't be like Israel and miss the rest.

what rest? Jesus. the only way into the Kingdom.

but, all of this is a moot point, because in Leviticus 26, God the father states that the Covenant made with the fathers of Israel who came out of Egypt.

what covenant ? the one made the Children of Israel at Sinai. what did that contain? the Sabbath command ya'll worship and give so much glory to. worship and glory that should be for Christ.

so, unless you can trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then that Covenant was not made with you.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

For he that has entered into his rest; the Gospel has ceased from his own works as GOD did from HIS.

As GOD did from HIS is a direct comparison. GOD rested from physical labor on day seven which is the Sabbath. So we who have entered into the Gospel also rest from our physical labor on day seven which is the Sabbath.

Nowhere in this post did LB say what you preach he said. No mention of the "law of Moses", no mention of being "saved".

Just the acknowledgment of a couple of Biblical facts.

#1. God's Sabbath is, was, and will always be the 7th day.

#2. We cease from "our works" when we enter His Rest.

As my Lord Jesus said. "Salvation is of the Jews".

 

[Endoscopy]

I heard a Christian DOCTOR say the same thing. It had to be in the WRISTS, because the nails in the Palms would have TORE right through in a matter of minutes. It does not VIOLATE what Scripture says, because the JEWS considered the WRISTS TO BE PART OF THE HAND. You can feel that indention in your Wrists where you can pierce right thru without hitting any bones.

Here is the most famous of the Bible Illustrators of the mid 1800's Gustave Dore, and again he places the NAILS in the Wrong Place.

View attachment 190025

I did the research years ago and found out the same things. Archaeologists uncovered graves of crucified men. In a few the nail for the foot went through the heel bone and was left in place with the wooden washer with it still intact. Also the wrists showed the evidence of the nails scaring the surface of the bone. I got tired of explaining the Greek word for hand included the wrist and being challenged every time.

 

[Endoscopy]

What "HE" are you addressing here G9? If you are talking about the Word of God which became Flesh in the person of Jesus, who created all things including His 7th day Rest. then yes, this Christ created a SABBATH Rest for His people.

And I have come to Him and His Rest, and have ceased from my works every 7th day, as Jesus ceased from carpentering on God's Holy Sabbath Day.




Nowhere in this post did LB say what you preach he said. No mention of the "law of Moses", no mention of being "saved".

Just the acknowledgment of a couple of Biblical facts.

#1. God's Sabbath is, was, and will always be the 7th day.

#2. We cease from "our works" when we enter His Rest.

As my Lord Jesus said. "Salvation is of the Jews".

More Biblical facts about Sabbaths

In addition to the weekly Sabbaths there are yearly Sabbaths also known as high days. Passover for example is a week long celebration starting and ending with an annual Sabbath. This causes the confusion about people trying to fit Friday Crucifixion and Sunday tomb empty being the 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb as the only sign Jesus was the Messiah. He was crucified just before a Sabbath but the Gospels never say it was Friday instead referee to it as a preparation day that comes before every type of Sabbath. Therefore the Sabbath was as one gospel puts it a high day.

 

[Studyman]

And the above goes back to my original point.
He never knew them and they did not know him.

They think they are saved but in fact are not.
Because they have no intention to be like Jesus.
They see it as an easy meal ticket.

As James said genuine faith will manifest in works

That's what you say Billy, and "many" who come in Christ's name would agree. But Jesus said; " And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.

And James agrees as does the entire Bible.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. They were most certainly deceived were they not?

Matt. 7:
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. (And that Rock was Christ)

And who is the Christ whose Word's we are to not just hear but "DO"? Is He not the Word which became Flesh? Did He not create "ALL THINGS"? Did He not say: "And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

And those in Matt. 7, did they Love the Christ and keep His Commandments? Is this why the Christ showed them no Mercy?

It's pretty much a no brainer Billy, unless a person has been convinced to believe things which are not true.

 

[Pisteuo]

Who do you think you are pal? You come in here spewing your idiocy and made up words and definitions and expect me to answer your drivel....when you wise up and start presenting honest truth then I may engage you...until then, you're just another false religionist peddling another satanic dogma!

So the Greek word pisteuo , the Strongs and Vines definitions of pisteuo are satanic ? And I'm the false religionist ?

In my understanding , the most evil thing one can do to another in this world is misrepresent someone , bare false witness . Seeing that's all you been able to present as a defense for your understanding , I'll leave you to deal with the hot coals on your head . Still hope you'll consider the message and not the messenger .

 

[Studyman]

More Biblical facts about Sabbaths

In addition to the weekly Sabbaths there are yearly Sabbaths also known as high days. Passover for example is a week long celebration starting and ending with an annual Sabbath. This causes the confusion about people trying to fit Friday Crucifixion and Sunday tomb empty being the 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb as the only sign Jesus was the Messiah. He was crucified just before a Sabbath but the Gospels never say it was Friday instead referee to it as a preparation day that comes before every type of Sabbath. Therefore the Sabbath was as one gospel puts it a high day.

I agree with most of this. Except Passover is a one day Feast which is followed by "Feast of Unleavened Bread" which begins at sundown on Passover. The first and last day of Unleavened Bread are Sabbaths.

This was the Sabbath He was removed and buried before. That week, Passover was Wednesday, Thursday was a Sabbath (First Day of Unleavened bread) Friday was preparation day for the weekly Sabbath when Mary bought spices to anoint Christ's body with. Saturday was the Weekly Sabbath and at sundown, when the 1st day of the week dawned, she went to His Grave and He was already risen.

3 days, 3 nights. If it were not for the influence of the religions of the land, it would be a no brainer.

 

[Endoscopy]

Additional reference to the to Sabbaths in relation to the crucifiction. Thus proving it was was the second Sabbath of the Passover Week and not not the weekly Sabbath. Jesus was crucified during Passover Week.

John 19 NIV
31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. 32 The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. 33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. 34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”

KJV
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

 

[Endoscopy]

I agree with most of this. Except Passover is a one day Feast which is followed by "Feast of Unleavened Bread" which begins at sundown on Passover. The first and last day of Unleavened Bread are Sabbaths.

This was the Sabbath He was removed and buried before. That week, Passover was Wednesday, Thursday was a Sabbath (First Day of Unleavened bread) Friday was preparation day for the weekly Sabbath when Mary bought spices to anoint Christ's body with. Saturday was the Weekly Sabbath and at sundown, when the 1st day of the week dawned, she went to His Grave and He was already risen.

3 days, 3 nights. If it were not for the influence of the religions of the land, it would be a no brainer.

I suggest you redo your research into Passover Week. I recently did it and found what I posted. It starts and ends with a high day. Here is what I found.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover

Date and duration
See also: Hebrew calendar
The Passover begins on the 15th day of the month of Nisan, which typically falls in March or April of the Gregorian calendar. Passover is a spring festival, so the 15th day of Nisan typically begins on the night of a full moon after the northern vernal equinox.[15] However, due to intercalary months or leap months falling after the vernal equinox, Passover sometimes starts on the second full moon after vernal equinox, as in 2016.

To ensure that Passover did not start before spring, the tradition in ancient Israel held that the first day of Nisan would not start until the barley was ripe, being the test for the onset of spring.[16] If the barley was not ripe, or various other phenomena[17] indicated that spring was not yet imminent, an intercalary month (Adar II) would be added. However, since at least the 4th century, the date has been fixed mathematically.

In Israel, Passover is the seven-day holiday of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, with the first and last days celebrated as legal holidays and as holy days involving holiday meals, special prayer services, and abstention from work; the intervening days are known as Chol HaMoed ("Weekdays [of] the Festival").

 

[posthuman]

Psalms 130:3-4
If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities,
O Lord, who shall stand?
But [there is] forgiveness with thee,
that thou mayest be feared.

 

[posthuman]

3 days, 3 nights.

how long was the coin in the fishes mouth?

you are supposed to be studying Matthew 17:24-27

 

[Studyman]

Here is your "true story" Studyman; you were spiritually injured when you were caught up in a "False Religion" that damaged your trust in people.

And so without even realizing what you are doing you began a systematic search of scripture to create a counterfeit gospel that would agree with all of your counterfeit doctrines beginning with "The Christ."

What a "Pity" Studyman, you had the truth in front of you but because of the "spiritual abuse" that you suffered you got back at your abusers by creating your own and different counterfeit christ, "The Christ."

For you Studyman all of us here on this forum represent all of the "Spiritual abuse" that you suffered and that is why you constantly refer to all of our beliefs' as the false religious long haired Jesus people.

I pray God will heal your spiritual abuse and I know He can do this. Quote: "It is what it is", is not the answer.

God bless!

I learned years ago about the hatred the religions of the land have for "The Christ" of the Bible. So much so that they are compelled to ignore much of His Word and create another. But as He said, if you won't listen to HIS Voice as the Word of God that created ALL THINGS, you won't be persuaded to listen to His Voice as the Messiah who came as a sheep for the slaughter.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Amen

 

[Pisteuo]

Hi Pisteou,

I just highlighted to you probably the most hype part of your post. Are you not only basing then to a one man/professor whom you cannot name. You have just reminded me of to the rules of Textual Criticism of allowing emendation, a pure guess, an educated guess indeed. Going to Vines of your “surrender” does not really have the exact meaning as far as salvation is concern. The Englishman Greek Concordance of the New Testament gave us another translation of the Greek “pistou” which is committed(entrusted) as seen in 1 Cor. 9:17; Gal. 2:7;1 Timothy 1:11; Luke 16:11, John 2:24 and Romans 3:2 thus giving no sense about “surrender” for salvation.

If your sensing there are things missing in my understanding or presentation to warn you , persuade you , in the true path of faithing or pisteuo , you would be correct .

Keep in mind a " surrendered life " must be genuine . Not done with expectations of getting something in return , like a business deal or vending machine transaction. Therefore , it's my responsibility to make sure what I say to you doesn't harm the integrity of pisteuo or how to apply saving Faith .

To help you with the " committed and entrusted " , threre is surrender involved . A good analogy is in the OT . The OT only has two pictorial words for Faith and faithing .

1) is the running to the shelter of a mother birds wings . Emphasis on the continual running to something , committing yourself , surrendering yourself to continually running towards something . In our lives , we are always doing this , faithing towards God , pisteuo , or faithing away from God , apisteuo .

2) The leaning on a staff , with all your weight behind it . We commit ourselves completely to the staff , that if the staff breaks our life is in the balance . Trusting the staff " Christ " with our life entirely .

Pisteuo is the corresponding verb to Pistis , a noun . The Greek didn't allow Faith and work or effort to be separated . Only the English language mistakenly does that . Not an effort or work that adds to or replaced what Christ could only do " Grace" , a surrendered life silly positions the called out ones to possibly recieve the Spirit of Christ , making that Grace and everything else that goes along with it ours to claim .

Pistis is where we get our English word" Faith " . But the English language has no corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does . So the translators had to choose a word that would come closest to the original text . They chose the words believe , believer , and believing . Pisteuo is an act , basedupona belief , sustained by confidence . So the translators captured one third of what true saving Faith , faithing is . But when the church world took believing as the whole correct truth t became error . Instead of a surrendered life to Him , a commitment to Him , reliance upon Him , trusting Him with the surrendered life , " believing " changed to object of Faith , faithing , from God Himself , to God's word and His promises . And also that no work or effort can be associated with " believing " as if " believing " doesn't require any work or effort .

And this is only one major problem . Because of this single mistranslation , the entire Salvation process or journey has become and practiced completely backwards .

I can answer any questions about the understanding I'm standing on . Questions about me and my personal relationship with Christ are off limits .

 

[posthuman]

As my Lord Jesus said. "Salvation is of the Jews".

John 4:20-23
Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.


put this together with Matthew 17:24-27

He is not saying salvation is by the law. He is salvation.

how is your study going?

 

[Studyman]

And you continue to slander him by devaluing him and pushing some law keeping drivel that you yourself do not do!

And what Law is that Decon?

 

[Studyman]

instead of actually reading this passage ((it's more than one verse, because, math, btw))
instead of actually thinking about it
instead of actually taking into account

you post paragraph after paragraph of slander.

are these your 'good works' ?

if you believe you are the only one here who actually believes the actual gospel, why don't you show it to me in these 4 verses?
i haven't said anything at all about what i believe the interpretation is. i've not introduced any bias.
is there something about what Christ says and does here that you are afraid to talk about?

"you post paragraph after paragraph of slander."

 

[Studyman]

yeah good question, mr. religious study man.

why don't you stop talking about 'religious traditions' and start discussing the scripture you are trying so hard to avoid?

Matthew 17:24-27

show me what it really means ?
you are capable of studying, aren't you? i mean that's why you call yourself that, right?
i presume you can do it.
i presume you aren't stupid.
i presume you are capable.

get to it.
dig.
enough excuses, enough diversion, enough slander and malicious speech.
actually talk about this scripture. show us the Salvation of God in it.
i'll wait

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.