Speaking in tongues

[garee]

I was trying to make a point. No disrepect to God.

What should readers conclude when two posters claim that got their position from God, yet they disagree?
1) One of the posters is right and the other is wrong? Which one?
2) Both of the posters are right? How can that be?
3) Both of the posters are wrong? Entirely possible.

I tend to go with number three. For the reasons you gave.

Beginning at the foundation of a doctrine could be helpful.

I tend to look at the law prophecied in Isaiah 28 the foundation. Exercised in Acts 2 the witness Confirmed in 1 Corinthian 14:21-22

The foundation....Isaiah 28 :10-15 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

The exercising or working out of Acts 2 :4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The confirmation ...1 Corinthian 14:21-22 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

A good place to begin is loking to the foundation. Like David said in the Psalm ; what would those do that do have their imputed righteous of Christ as the gift of God .. if someone would destroy the foundations of truth (the Bible) and came up with their own kind of foundation. like seeking after a sign that confirms the opposite, in which they have their hopes set on.

Perhaps we can begin at the foundation.

Why do you think God mocked (stammering lips) the unbelieving jew as a sign against them ?. Was it because they were mocking him refusing to hear His prophecy in exchange for the oral traditions of men?

 

[garee]

Yes that is true. I'm not sure why exactly you are telling me this here but I have assumptions.

Yes it is why we need laws not subject to change. Get who correct person the sign is assigned as to it points to the law. It becomes evidence needed to believe God, not seen .

From my experience it is when men turn the law upside d wn is where problem begin. Its seem clear to me who and what the sign represents and its not those who believe prophecy . There is no outward sign for that . God looks upon the heart .

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them "that believe", but to them that "believe not": but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthians 14:21-22

How that gets turned upside down is a mystery ?

A sign, not to them "that believe", but to them that "believe not":

The difference turned upside down ...a sign to them "that believe", but to not to them that believe prophecy " as in no sign for them.

 

[Xethea]

It is an idea someone came up with to try and confirm making a noise gives a person the privilege to call it prophecy, And that noise can give a person pride by self edifying themselves. Just as the idea of falling back ward slain in the spirit as false sign and wonders or outward healing .(what they call sign gifts) The bible does not use to the words "sign gifts" together .Sign are designed against those who will not hear prophecy.

There are many kind languages in the world. But only one human dialect kind that we are to consider . God Communing with man.( No secret language) But words that convey thought to both the speaker and the hearer in order for two to walk in agreement.

Beginning at Pentecost. God is shown no longer is bringing new revelations as before in the language of Hebrew alone. It provided a outward sign established in Isaiah 28a against those who refuse to hear prophecy in any language.

Some how that law was turned upside down and men are using to confirm they will not hear God but would rather keep their oral tradition of men ….relying on the oral traditions of men . Like the Pentecostals in a hope of widening authority of God's word, in false pride.(no faith)

The idea that men went running around looking for someone to stand in the place of God as a infallible interpreter is not a biblical teaching.

God has stopped bringing new revelations after any manner of prophecy to include tongues .( all the language of all the nations).This is to show us the perfect has come.

Prophecy (new) has ceased along with any new knowledge that would of come with it. There are bibles available in the public written in the all the tongues in the world. Need more words than all the languages provide?The skies the limit. Just make a noise and believe.

Christians were warned before hand of those who add to prophecy, widening its authority as a lying sign and wonder.

I commune all the time with God without needing the tongues.

What is praise and speaking to God worth of glory if we don't even say it from our hearts and we don't understand him? Like 1st Corinthians says, it's unfruitful. I can even fake doing the unkown tongue and people believe I am doing it and pat me on the back saying praise God. but if I try to translate the gospel in Chinese or another language, I couldn't do it, Chinese people could tell I am faking it and it would become meaningless and unfruitful accomplishing no glory for God.

Language is to give understanding. Let someone know how you feel, what you think, what you want or need, basically yes, to communicate.

But if we don't know what we are saying to communicate with God, do you think he would not rather us speak a language from our hearts that we both understand?

The strange thing about the unknown tongue language, is when you look at ALL things God says, does and will do, and for the reason and purpose and meaning of it all- this unknown tongue is one of a kind, it doesn't work the same way in everything else God does. That really shows me that isn't of God. With everything that God does, he does it for his glory. I find no reason to praise God because you say baka waka chimmy chunguh! or anything simply I cant understand, and when I ask you to tell me what you told God, you say you cannot tell me. We all just stand there with straight faces and find no meaning to praise God.

In fact, if no one ever heard about tongues but heard of God, then they saw someone get up and start speaking in tongues, they would be usually shocked, startled and think that person is demon possessed or going crazy.

Another thing, is I find only this tongue stuff in the Pentecostal peoples lives. Not Baptist, Methodist, or any other denomination of people I have seen or met. Pentecostals tell me every Christian does this. Does that mean all of these other people claiming to be Christians aren't? I bet most people on this site do not speak it either. I am a Christian. I don't do it. Then was all my belief and wanting to give my life to the Lord not real just because I don't say this stuff? I would gladly do it if it what God wants, I gave it a chance, I seek the truth because I wanted to live my life for God to the max- but clearly, this isn't part of being a Christian.

I believe it is very likely that people from different denominations are saved. Just because their beliefs aren't 100% correct doesn't mean they can't be saved. All they need is to understand the Gospel and live for Christ believing in him. You don't have to get all this other stuff COMPLETELY correctly. I do believe even if a Pentecostal does that and still believes this useless gibberish that they can be saved. I don't ever find anyone who completely agrees on everything about scripture. We Christians seem to agree on most, is that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior of us and our sins. If we get that right, we will be all right and we'll understand everything after this life. But its still good to understand the truth. But even the Bible you find the disciples and other godly people didn't always agree on everything. They were all still of Christ

 

[garee]

I just had a glance at it and once of his arguments there is obviously wrong, which we can see from context. He says that he that speaks in tongues edifies himself means it 'puffs your ego.'

But look at Paul's argument in I Corinthians 14.

3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

He that prophesies speaks prophecy (God's word) unto men to edify God who speaks prophecy. The author and finisher of our new faith ,

He who speaks in a language (prophecy) not know the hearer, only hears himself. But he who bring prophecy and God gives His interpretation to them . That prophecy works to edify the work of God working in all of them all to both will and do His good pleasure.

We neither puff up one (venerate) or puff up the whole congregation against another. We are to think not of going above that which is written. seeing it is God who makes us different from another . Why support false pride ? Whats the hope?

Consider the argument, "He that speaks in a tongue edifies himself...I want you all to speak with tongues." If speaking in tongues puffs up the ego, why would Paul want them to do it? In verse 5 speaking in tongues, even without an interpreter is a good thing. We know this because Paul wanted them to speak with tongues. But prophesying is better.

It would be claiming tongues. God brining His interpretation in other languages other than Hebrew alone was a wonderful work they performed, robing God of the glory. Like the man in Mathew 7 .Christ called him a worker of iniquity .I never knew you

He did not say good wonderful job of edifying one self for the work another performed in the person .

Edifying self--> Good.
Edifying church--> Better.

Edifying self--> self righteousness
Edifying church--> corporate self righteousness

 

[presidente]

Forget all that explanation with all that other stuff not included in the Bible. I'm talking about the places where he explains the meaning of the verse in the bible, not where he uses other stories as an example. When you get his main point by scripture, not by those stories, then you see he is correct and those verses agree with him and me.

No and my post clearly shows some problems with his eisegesis. It makes edify bad in one verse but bad in the next. Then it makes Paul exptess his wish that they would engage in pagan ramblings to build themselves up.

If MacArthur was right about tongues in that passage, then Paul wanted them to interpret pagan tongues to edify the congregation.

Either he was not able to perceive what the passage said or he did not pay attention and parrotted a liberal commentary from someone who could not perceive and/or had a low view of scripture who thought Biblical tongues was the same as what pagans did. Paul would have to be wrong about what tongues is or a promoter of pagan practices for JM's sermon to be right.

When someone is so antitongues he is even against the tongues in the Bible, we know he is off balance on this issue.

 

[PS]

I commune all the time with God without needing the tongues.

What is praise and speaking to God worth of glory if we don't even say it from our hearts and we don't understand him? Like 1st Corinthians says, it's unfruitful. I can even fake doing the unkown tongue and people believe I am doing it and pat me on the back saying praise God. but if I try to translate the gospel in Chinese or another language, I couldn't do it, Chinese people could tell I am faking it and it would become meaningless and unfruitful accomplishing no glory for God.

Language is to give understanding. Let someone know how you feel, what you think, what you want or need, basically yes, to communicate.

But if we don't know what we are saying to communicate with God, do you think he would not rather us speak a language from our hearts that we both understand?

The strange thing about the unknown tongue language, is when you look at ALL things God says, does and will do, and for the reason and purpose and meaning of it all- this unknown tongue is one of a kind, it doesn't work the same way in everything else God does. That really shows me that isn't of God. With everything that God does, he does it for his glory. I find no reason to praise God because you say baka waka chimmy chunguh! or anything simply I cant understand, and when I ask you to tell me what you told God, you say you cannot tell me. We all just stand there with straight faces and find no meaning to praise God.

In fact, if no one ever heard about tongues but heard of God, then they saw someone get up and start speaking in tongues, they would be usually shocked, startled and think that person is demon possessed or going crazy.

Another thing, is I find only this tongue stuff in the Pentecostal peoples lives. Not Baptist, Methodist, or any other denomination of people I have seen or met. Pentecostals tell me every Christian does this. Does that mean all of these other people claiming to be Christians aren't? I bet most people on this site do not speak it either. I am a Christian. I don't do it. Then was all my belief and wanting to give my life to the Lord not real just because I don't say this stuff? I would gladly do it if it what God wants, I gave it a chance, I seek the truth because I wanted to live my life for God to the max- but clearly, this isn't part of being a Christian.

I believe it is very likely that people from different denominations are saved. Just because their beliefs aren't 100% correct doesn't mean they can't be saved. All they need is to understand the Gospel and live for Christ believing in him. You don't have to get all this other stuff COMPLETELY correctly. I do believe even if a Pentecostal does that and still believes this useless gibberish that they can be saved. I don't ever find anyone who completely agrees on everything about scripture. We Christians seem to agree on most, is that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior of us and our sins. If we get that right, we will be all right and we'll understand everything after this life. But its still good to understand the truth. But even the Bible you find the disciples and other godly people didn't always agree on everything. They were all still of Christ

It is not about what you think, it is all down to God who sent us the Holy Spirit to minister unto us.

Please do not deny the work of the Holy Spirit, who teaches and edifies in a way no mortal man can.

 

[cv5]

If you heard a 'legitimate tongue' on YouTube, how would you know? I've got a degree in Linguistics, and I have studied or can speak about 9 langagues (native in English, fluent in Indonesian, can speak Malaysian becuase it is so similar to Indonesian.) I have heard speaking in tongues that sounds like it could be a real language to me. I've been in a meeting in Indonesia, and I did not know if someone had spoken in a local area language besides the lingua franca or if it was a message in tongues until the interpretation came in Indonesian and I knew then.

I have also heard someone say 'ba ba ba ba' or 'bada bada bada' and that was supposed to be speaking in tongues. But the issue is whether there is real speaking in tongues.

I also took an audio clip of speaking in tongues and gave it to an Arabic professor with a PhD who also knew Persian and played it. He did not know the languge, but said it sounded like Kurdish. He did not say "That's gibberish" even though he did not know it was 'speaking in tongues.'

If you have ever heard Mandarin, the first time you heard it, didn't it sound like pure gibberish.

If you hear a language you know, you can identify that. But you have no basis for dismissing a language you do not know. Would you recognize Tokarian A if someone started speaking it? I wouldn't.

YouTube also has numerous healing videos, some of them quite dramatic. Before you made your claim, did you bother to check and see if there were some healing that fits your standard. Btw, Jesus is the big A Apostle since He is deity and the a should be capitalized for him. Otherwise, apostle shows up with a small a in the Bible.

I am not dismissing a language I do not know. I am doing just the opposite. Confirming a language that we DO know. Then a very simple interrogation and investigation will be able to determine if the SPEAKER knew the language.

This is so so simple. There should be ample, irreducible, incontrovertible prima facie evidence that tongues of the biblical sort are manifesting themselves today.

Healings are another matter that could be and should be either confirmed or denied in each individual case. This of course is biblical.

Acts ch 2 tongues are the gold standard, and that standard should and must be met. And I am waiting to behold this sign gift.

Still waiting. And waiting for the Pentecostals to meet the biblical standard instead of evading it.

They (the hard boiled Pentecostals), I assure you, are deceiving and being deceived.

 

[Dino246]

Edifying self--> self righteousness
Edifying church--> corporate self righteousness

There isn't a single use of the Greek word translated "edifies" that is negative; 1 Corinthians 14:2 notwithstanding.

Do the homework and stop promoting error based on your own private interpretation.

 

[garee]

What is praise and speaking to God worth of glory if we don't even say it from our hearts and we don't understand him?

What about not understanding God? He know our thoughts before they leave our minds. and is watching to see if his word is fulfilled. He even know the groans as desires of our heart.

Like 1st Corinthians says, it's unfruitful. I can even fake doing the unkown tongue and people believe I am doing it and pat me on the back saying praise God. but if I try to translate the gospel in Chinese or another language, I couldn't do it, Chinese people could tell I am faking it and it would become meaningless and unfruitful accomplishing no glory for God.

First and foremost, God is no longer adding to His book of prophecy in any manner to include tongues...Tongues one of the many manners he did use when he was still bringing new prophecy has come to an end

The word "unknow" was added. It speaks to the hearer and not God bringing the interpretation. Prophesying is a work of God that works mutual in two. If it is unknown to the hearer, then the hearer will be unknow to the first speaker.

When you do connect the sign to the law it becomes easy to see what the sign represents and who it points to . A good place to begin is in Isaiah 28 the foundation.

I believe it is very likely that people from different denominations are saved. Just because their beliefs aren't 100% correct doesn't mean they can't be saved. All they need is to understand the Gospel and live for Christ believing in him. You don't have to get all this other stuff COMPLETELY correctly. I do believe even if a Pentecostal does that and still believes this useless gibberish that they can be saved. I don't ever find anyone who completely agrees on everything about scripture. We Christians seem to agree on most, is that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior of us and our sins. If we get that right, we will be all right and we'll understand everything after this life. But its still good to understand the truth. But even the Bible you find the disciples and other godly people didn't always agree on everything. They were all still of Christ

Good point. Not a salvation issue but more how can we hear God not seen seeing he does the teaching and bringing it to our minds the things he has taught us?.

 

[cv5]

No and my post clearly shows some problems with his eisegesis. It makes edify bad in one verse but bad in the next. Then it makes Paul exptess his wish that they would engage in pagan ramblings to build themselves up.

If MacArthur was right about tongues in that passage, then Paul wanted them to interpret pagan tongues to edify the congregation.

Either he was not able to perceive what the passage said or he did not pay attention and parrotted a liberal commentary from someone who could not perceive and/or had a low view of scripture who thought Biblical tongues was the same as what pagans did. Paul would have to be wrong about what tongues is or a promoter of pagan practices for JM's sermon to be right.

When someone is so antitongues he is even against the tongues in the Bible, we know he is off balance on this issue.

I am quite sure MacArthur did his due diligence on that section of scripture. I have listened to his exegesis on the matter in depth and detail and many times over. I tend to believe he is correct in his assertions. As I said this is a tough nut to crack.

But at any rate....tongues.....legitimate tongues.....are not known to be manifest in the Church today.
If they were, it would be investigated and understood by Church authorities to be true and thusly proclaimed from the pulpit. There would be little to debate.

 

[presidente]

I am not dismissing a language I do not know. I am doing just the opposite. Confirming a language that we DO know. Then a very simple interrogation and investigation will be able to determine if the SPEAKER knew the language.

I wondered why your post did not make much sense to me. Your test is vased on an assumption that speakers in tongues knew the languages and understood what they are saying. Acts 2 does not tells us one way or another but there is plenty of evidence from I Corinthians 12-14 that the speaker generally did not know the language.

1. Speakers in tongues and interpreters are treated as separate categories in I Corinthians 12.
2. The one who speaks in tongues is told to pray that he may interpret in the context of an exhortation to seek to excel for the edification of the body.
3. Paul contrasts his own speaking in tongues with speaking with the understanding.

Acts ch 2 tongues are the gold standard, and that standard should and must be met. And I am waiting to behold this sign gift.

Why is Acts 2 the gold standard. There is more than speaking in Acts 2 tongues to Acts 2. There were people present who understood. That is something else beside the tongues, what Reformed thinking might call providence.

Still waiting.

since it is God would have to provide the scenario and the gift, you should be careful not to be demanding about this sign you seek.

 

[Deade]

I do. Right next to my job and down the road from my house. Their motto says "come witness the experience! " when they want you to witness some exciting experience and they're Pentecostals, you know it's the tongue speaking and possibly rolling around and falling down shaking believing it's the holy spirit.
Plus the majority of my family are Pentecostal. even my grandfather was a Pentecostal pastor for decades. I have had plenty of years and people in my life to explain, show me and give me reason then take it all to God and get the truth from him after considering everything. And God let me know it was false.

Okay, so God told you it was false: all of it? Because I heard from God just the opposite. One of us must be listening to the wrong spirit. We are in the last days where knowledge is increasing (Dan. 12:4). The actual advent (literal return) of Christ was shuttered by the Catholics and the offshoot Protestants and nobody really believed until about mid-1800s during the Adventist Movement. The Gifts of the Spirit was shuttered until about 1900 during the Pentecostal Movement.

Go ahead and stay with those antichrist inspired denominations and reject anything that makes you uncomfortable. I have been in Pentecostal worship services where so many were praising God and praying that the Holy Spirit overcame the entire congregation and just shut us up one by one. Everyone got one their knees and just basked in the felt presence. I am sorry you and Garee had bad experiences with people trying to force tongues, but your hard stance against any of it is just plain wrong. Quit trying to be an expert of interpreting God's word and gain a little humility.

 

[cv5]

I wondered why your post did not make much sense to me. Your test is vased on an assumption that speakers in tongues knew the languages and understood what they are saying. Acts 2 does not tells us one way or another but there is plenty of evidence from I Corinthians 12-14 that the speaker generally did not know the language.

1. Speakers in tongues and interpreters are treated as separate categories in I Corinthians 12.
2. The one who speaks in tongues is told to pray that he may interpret in the context of an exhortation to seek to excel for the edification of the body.
3. Paul contrasts his own speaking in tongues with speaking with the understanding.



Why is Acts 2 the gold standard. There is more than speaking in Acts 2 tongues to Acts 2. There were people present who understood. That is something else beside the tongues, what Reformed thinking might call providence.

since it is God would have to provide the scenario and the gift, you should be careful not to be demanding about this sign you seek.

No no no.
1) The tongues incidents supposedly going on today simply need to be recorded. The veracity will be confirmed......easily.
2) I am not seeking after a sign. I am disputing that the tongues sign gifts are occurring as the Pentecostals proclaim they are.

I am never seeking after a sign. Ever. I know that the signs miracles and wonders did in fact occur, and if God chooses to reassert that phenomenon so be it. Not my business.
Furthermore, I am perfectly willing to be a candidate FOR sign gifts. It would be an honor.

I am simply refuting the BOGUS claims of tongues, not the genuine ones.

 

[cv5]

I do. Right next to my job and down the road from my house. Their motto says "come witness the experience! " when they want you to witness some exciting experience and they're Pentecostals, you know it's the tongue speaking and possibly rolling around and falling down shaking believing it's the holy spirit.
Plus the majority of my family are Pentecostal. even my grandfather was a Pentecostal pastor for decades. I have had plenty of years and people in my life to explain, show me and give me reason then take it all to God and get the truth from him after considering everything. And God let me know it was false.

And God let me know it was false.

You don't even need God for that....overtly. A good detective would be quite adequate. Even an investigative reporter. The bogus faith healers have unquestionably been exposed as frauds by investigative reporters.

 

[Deade]

I am quite sure MacArthur did his due diligence on that section of scripture. I have listened to his exegesis on the matter in depth and detail and many times over. I tend to believe he is correct in his assertions. As I said this is a tough nut to crack.

But at any rate....tongues.....legitimate tongues.....are not known to be manifest in the Church today.
If they were, it would be investigated and understood by Church authorities to be true and thusly proclaimed from the pulpit. There would be little to debate.

Yes, and if science could prove God really exists we would just do that. Then we wouldn't need any faith to believe. Oh! Wait! Scripture says we cannot please God without faith (Heb. 11:6). I guess the debate is then necessary. By all means let's get the Church authorities to settle this thing called faith.

 

[presidente]

No no no.
1) The tongues incidents supposedly going on today simply need to be recorded. The veracity will be confirmed......easily.
2) I am not seeking after a sign. I am disputing that the tongues sign gifts are occurring as the Pentecostals proclaim they are.

If you go around with a cell phone video and you recorded someone speaking proto-Austranesian or some Papuan tribal language, how are you going to verify what language it is? Btw, just for fun can you tell me which of those lines previously were languages written with 'the understanding'.

I am simply refuting the BOGUS claims of tongues, not the genuine ones.

Do you claim every case of tongues acrosd millions of tongues are bogus? You acknowledge some may be real?

 

[PS]

I have been in Pentecostal worship services where so many were praising God and praying that the Holy Spirit overcame the entire congregation and just shut us up one by one. Everyone got one their knees and just basked in the felt presence. I am sorry you and Garee had bad experiences with people trying to force tongues, but your hard stance against any of it is just plain wrong. Quit trying to be an expert of interpreting God's word and gain a little humility.

Praise God!

 

[cv5]

If you go around with a cell phone video and you recorded someone speaking proto-Austranesian or some Papuan tribal language, how are you going to verify what language it is? Btw, just for fun can you tell me which of those lines previously were languages written with 'the understanding'.



Do you claim every case of tongues acrosd millions of tongues are bogus? You acknowledge some may be real?

Easily. A scrupulous investigation will yield dependable results. But the sample size could be limited to Latin languages if necessary.

Parsing words is not useful if they are used to evade the facts or the question.

Again I say, the Acts ch 2 gold standard is the test, and I want to see manifestation of tongues that meet this standard. Very simple request. And very very easily met....if in fact tongues today are legitimate.

And yes, I do acknowledge that it is CERTAINLY possible for legitimate tongues to be manifested today. But what the Pentecostals proclaim are legitimate tongues occurring on a daily basis at Pentecostal assemblies all over the world is absurd. Why? There would be infallible proof. The entire world would know as well. Why? Because that is the main purpose of "sign gifts". They authenticate the true God, and the true Church.

 

[cv5]

Yes, and if science could prove God really exists we would just do that. Then we wouldn't need any faith to believe. Oh! Wait! Scripture says we cannot please God without faith (Heb. 11:6). I guess the debate is then necessary. By all means let's get the Church authorities to settle this thing called faith. View attachment 191340

Wrong. Act ch 2 tongues were quite irrefutable....by Jew and Gentile alike. Tongues today? Not so much.

 

[cv5]

Yes, and if science could prove God really exists we would just do that. Then we wouldn't need any faith to believe. Oh! Wait! Scripture says we cannot please God without faith (Heb. 11:6). I guess the debate is then necessary. By all means let's get the Church authorities to settle this thing called faith. View attachment 191340

The Church Authorities (Peter and John (Acts 8) and then Peter and a number of Jewish believers (Acts 10) ) WERE called to settle the matter of the Holy Spirit being gifted to the Samaritans and Gentiles.

I see no reason why the Church Authorities would not be involved in the matter of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit in sign gifts today. No reason at all.