Not By Works

[posthuman]

Am I frustrated by the intellectual dishonesty of so many who claim to be already immortal, already saved, but will not even address these questions which are most certainly valid?

Jesus says many times, verily verily, whoever believes has everlasting life. everlasting is everlasting.
it's intellectually dishonest to say you believe Him and deny what He says.

as for the rest, your answer is found in here:

When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax went up to Peter and said, “Does your teacher not pay the tax?” He said, “Yes.” And when he came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tax? From their sons or from others?” And when he said, “From others,” Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free. However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for me and for yourself.” ​

(Matthew 17:24-27)​

dig it

 

[posthuman]

Came here for fellowship. Instead got sick to my stomach..

ikr

which one of us is not doing a shoddy job of loving one another?

 

[BillG]

Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo , applied is " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender .

Starting the Salvation process , we fulfill pisteuo by only recieving the call to Christ , by the Father , answering the call . As we move forward in the process , part of the regenerated life is we are becoming less of us and more of Him . Our Faith and faithing increase ( the surrendered life ) as our relationship with Christ increases .


Christ was the first goer of Faith . We are to follow .

We must continually fulfill pisteuo , just like Jesus did in His Life .

I prefer this explanation

to believe, put one's faith in, trust, with an implication that actions based on that trust may follow; (pass.) entrust

Acts 16:31
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Beleiving on Jesus is different from beleiving in Jesus.

 

[Studyman]

Faith and faithing is defined as ,: an action , an act , based upon a belief , sustained by confidence . Pisteuo is a verb . We fulfill hundreds of acts of faithing or pisteuo all day that have nothing to do with God , directly anyway .

The specific act of faithing that we have in relationship to the living God , is only who to surrender our lives to , God or ourselves and the world .

Every person ever born has spent their lives faithing either towards God pisteuo, or away from God , apisteuo , there are no exceptions

Certainly an interesting concept. Faith is actually, according to Jesus, an important part of God's Law. It is a commandment to do or have whatever His definition of faith is. The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time omitted this part of God's Law along with judgment and Mercy.

I absolutely agree that there was a problem with Faith in the Mainstream religions of Christ's time and there is definitely a problem with Faith in the religions of the land today.

I like the way you address the "surrender" of our lives to God which will lead to something better than we will have without this surrender. It seems religious man want the "Something better" but don't want the "surrender" part, choosing instead to "trust" in their own mind which differs from mind to mind, rather than have trust or "Faith" in the Word of God which stays the same forever as it is written. This is what Eve did.

These are good discussions to have.

 

[Pisteuo]

Vines Expository Dictionary (noeo.net)

The main elements in "faith" in its relation to the invisible God, as distinct from "faith" in man, are especially brought out in the use of this noun and the corresponding verb, pisteuo; they are (1) a firm conviction, producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation or truth, e.g., 2 Thess. 2:11,12; (2) a personal surrender to Him, John 1:12; (3) a conduct inspired by such surrender, 2 Cor. 5:7. Prominence is given to one or other of these elements according to the context. All this stands in contrast to belief in its purely natural exercise, which consists of an opinion held in good "faith" without necessary reference to its proof. The object of Abraham's "faith" was not God's promise (that was the occasion of its exercise); his "faith" rested on God Himself, Rom. 4:17,20,21."

Hey , I've heard this somewhere before , lol .

That is NT saving Faith in its application .

 

[J70x7]

By whom was the first list of the books of the Bible drawn up?

Does anybody here know the answer to this question?

If you know by whom and what year the first list of the books of the Bible was drawn up, please post the answer.

​

 

[BillG]

Hey , I've heard this somewhere before , lol .

That is NT saving Faith in its application .

So are you saying in terms of personal surrender is that genuine faith will be seen in action?

A faith that wants to be like Jesus?
For him to grow more and us grow less?

Jesus increases and we decrease.
Bear fruit?

 

[Pisteuo]

I prefer this explanation

to believe, put one's faith in, trust, with an implication that actions based on that trust may follow; (pass.) entrust

Acts 16:31
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Beleiving on Jesus is different from beleiving in Jesus.

What we prefer really isn't the point here is it ?

Mostly everyone " prefers " to simply believe in what Christ did , and that they'll recieve all His promises , never having to continually surrender their lives to Him . Thats called having your cake and eating it to .

 

[BillG]

What we prefer really isn't the point here is it ?

Mostly everyone " prefers " to simply believe in what Christ did , and that they'll recieve all His promises , never having to continually surrender their lives to Him . Thats called having your cake and eating it to .

But there is a difference between believing in Jesus and believing on Jesus.

I know people who believe in Jesus who are not Christians (I prefer followers of Jesus instead of Christian) but they are not saved

 

[Pisteuo]

So are you saying in terms of personal surrender is that genuine faith will be seen in action?

A faith that wants to be like Jesus?
For him to grow more and us grow less?

Jesus increases and we decrease.
Bear fruit?

Yes , the Greek doesn't allow work or effort to be separated from Faith . It's because the English language has no word , no verb form of Faith like the Greek does , that because the translators chose believe , believer , and believing , the church world is decieved into thinking " believing " is all faithing is and any effort included is a works based Salvation .

It takes work and effort to continually surrender our lives to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ikr

which one of us is not doing a shoddy job of loving one another?

I have to look inside all the time, to make sure I am not one of them. Because I know sometimes it is me not showing love. And have to confess..

 

[Pisteuo]

But there is a difference between believing in Jesus and believing on Jesus.

I know people who believe in Jesus who are not Christians (I prefer followers of Jesus instead of Christian) but they are not saved

Question Bill .

At what point is the Spirit of Christ sealed into us ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But there is a difference between believing in Jesus and believing on Jesus.

I know people who believe in Jesus who are not Christians (I prefer followers of Jesus instead of Christian) but they are not saved

Sadly many follow Jesus, but the jesus they were taught, not the literal jesus who walked the earth and sits at the right hand of God.

 

[VCO]

VCO
you are one self righteous person! when you choose to serve a pagan god and call other people or churches names when you actually dont even know what they preach.
No wonder Christ called such people hypocrites, serpents etc

I follow the JESUS CHRIST as MY LORD and Master, Creator of the Universe and everything that is in it, and HE FEEDS ME FROM HIS WORD.

YOU DO NOT FOLLOW HIM, you teach a False Counterfeit Jesus Christ, and follow your FALSE TEACHER. PLEASE REPENT!

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (ESV)
3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

2 Corinthians 11:4 (TLB)
4 You seem so gullible: you believe whatever anyone tells you even if he is preaching about another Jesus than the one we preach, or a different spirit than the Holy Spirit you received, or shows you a different way to be saved. You swallow it all.

Titus 3:9-11 (NASB)
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

Galatians 1:9 (NASB)
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

 

[ljs]

Came here for fellowship. Instead got sick to my stomach..

me too EG , sometimes you just gotta take a break from here Im sorry to say

 

[J70x7]

I follow the JESUS CHRIST as MY LORD and Master, Creator of the Universe and everything that is in it, and HE FEEDS ME FROM HIS WORD.

YOU DO NOT FOLLOW HIM, you teach a False Counterfeit Jesus Christ, and follow your FALSE TEACHER. PLEASE REPENT!

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (ESV)
3 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
4 he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,
5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

2 Corinthians 11:4 (TLB)
4 You seem so gullible: you believe whatever anyone tells you even if he is preaching about another Jesus than the one we preach, or a different spirit than the Holy Spirit you received, or shows you a different way to be saved. You swallow it all.

Titus 3:9-11 (NASB)
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.

Galatians 1:9 (NASB)
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

By whom was the first list of the books of the Bible drawn up?

If you know by whom and what year the first list of the books of the Bible was drawn up, please post the answer.

 

[Xethea]

People usually debate on this subject about faith alone or works. right?
Non believers say the bible contradicts that way. Believers simply debate what it means or that it refers to something else.

The easiest way I know how to explain the simple answer,
is that Christians will have works, but they are only saved by faith alone.

Which means, you are saved by faith, not works. If you had faith, were saved, then had such a short time to live before you had godly works, does that mean you weren't saved? No, you were saved by faith.
But that doesn't mean we will see those who live years after salvation not pursuing the will of God. a Christian is a new creature with a new nature in the Holy Spirit. So God WILL work through them in their lives. The Holy Spirit won't just sit in them and never do anything. Their life becomes listening to the old flesh or listening to the spirit.

Salvation is by faith alone, then works come by salvation and the Holy Spirit.

Your works don't keep you saved, and neither does faith, but the Lord keeps you saved. But the Lord is not a failure. By being saved, the lord will change you and perform works in your life, and therefor since he is doing the works, not you, that is why he is glorified and you don't get the glory.

 

[J70x7]

People usually debate on this subject about faith alone or works. right?
Non believers say the bible contradicts that way. Believers simply debate what it means or that it refers to something else.

The easiest way I know how to explain the simple answer,
is that Christians will have works, but they are only saved by faith alone.

Which means, you are saved by faith, not works. If you had faith, were saved, then had such a short time to live before you had godly works, does that mean you weren't saved? No, you were saved by faith.
But that doesn't mean we will see those who live years after salvation not pursuing the will of God. a Christian is a new creature with a new nature in the Holy Spirit. So God WILL work through them in their lives. The Holy Spirit won't just sit in them and never do anything. Their life becomes listening to the old flesh or listening to the spirit.

Salvation is by faith alone, then works come by salvation and the Holy Spirit.

Your works don't keep you saved, and neither does faith, but the Lord keeps you saved. But the Lord is not a failure. By being saved, the lord will change you and perform works in your life, and therefor since he is doing the works, not you, that is why he is glorified and you don't get the glory.

Do you know by whom was the first list of the books of the Bible drawn up? The answer to this question helps clear up the debate.

 

[BillG]

Question Bill .

At what point is the Spirit of Christ sealed into us ?

I would say when

Romans 10:9-11 (NKJV)
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Believe being Pisteuo.

John 16:7-9 (NKJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Once again Pisteuo

 

[VCO]

EVERYONE who is born again, watch out for Babies in Christ, for this DECEIVER will go after the LAMBS.


2 Timothy 3:13 (NRSV)
13 But wicked people and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving others and being deceived.