You are absolutely right i apologize. That’s what I get for chatting and watching tv at the same time.
No prob. I understand. I'm not particularly focused right now either. (NACHOS!
)Daniel's 70 weeks correctly interpreted (in my opinion)
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No prob. I understand. I'm not particularly focused right now either. (NACHOS!
)
This is simply untrue, but it would take thousands of words to show you why. Essentially, you do not understand that the Abomination of Desolation, the Great Tribulation, and the Second Coming of Christ are ALL FUTURE EVENTS. Therefore Daniel's 70th week is still in the future.
When you begin with false premises, you end up with false conclusions.
You are assuming that all these things happen in a future 70th week. I showed you from my original post how Christ was crucified in the 70th week. If you disagree with the conclusions that is fair but I would ask you this question:
Your dispensational interpretation has the 69th week ending on Palm Sunday. Jesus is crucified 5 days later on Good Friday. That is AFTER the first 69 weeks are completed. You also believe the 70th week is still in the future. So Christ was crucified BEFORE the 70th week starts. That means Christ was crucified OUTSIDE the 70 weeks time frame.
That is not possible according to what Gabriel says in Dan 9: 24. Gabriel says all 6 things will happen WITHIN the 70 weeks. Scripture proves the dispensational intepretation of Daniel's 70 weeks to be false. So I have to conclude:
Now if you have an answer for Jesus being crucified OUTSIDE the 70 weeks time frame I would love to hear it.
I don't know where you got that information.
The 69th week ended when "Messiah was cut off (crucified). And that would be 30 AD.
For full details about this read and study Martin Anstey's The Chronology of the Old Testament.
The commandment by Cyrus to "restore and build Jerusalem" -- 453 BC
The crucifixion of Christ -- 30 AD
Total period = 453 + 30 = 483 years/7 = 69 weeks
Ptolemy's Date for the commandment by Cyrus (1st year of Cyrus) was 536 BC
But Anstey showed by careful computation that Ptolemy was incorrect by 83 years.
536 -83 = 453 BC (correct date).
The traditional dispensational interpretation is that the 69th week ended on Palm Sunday. The reason dispensationalists say this is because of Daniel 9: 26.
Daniel 9: 26, "And AFTER the sixty-two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off..."
You are saying it was at the END of the 69th week which contradicts what Gabriel says in Dan 9: 26.
I am assuming you are saying this because you are trying to fit the crucifixion within the 70 weeks time frame and avoid the problem I presented in my last post.
"END" and "AFTER" do not mean the same thing.
The problem I listed in post #23 remains and is fatal to the dispensational interpretation.
How can Christ be crucified OUTSIDE the 70 weeks time frame when Gabriel says in Dan 9: 24 that those 6 things will happen WITHIN the 70 weeks time frame.
What is the answer? Christ was crucified in the 70th week just like Daniel 9: 26 and 27 both say. There is no future week.
Remember, in Bible prophecy there is a day-for-a-year principle.
so 70 weeks = 490 days = 490 years.
Eze 4:6, Num 14:34.
When was the beginning? The starting event was a decree from Persian King Artaxerxes authorizing God’s people (who were captive in Medo-Persia) to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the city. The decree, found in Ezra chapter 7, was issued in 457 bc—the seventh year of the king (verse 7)—and was implemented in the autumn. Artaxerxes began his reign in 464 bc.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
So from the command to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah is 69 weeks. 7+60+2= 69.
Does it fit History? Yes! Moving ahead 483 years (69 prophetic weeks) from the fall of 457 bc reaches the fall of ad 27. (Note: There is no year 0.) The word “Messiah” includes the meaning of “anointed” John 1:41. Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:38) at His baptism (Luke 3:21,22). His anointing took place in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar (Luke 3:1), which was ad 27. And to think that the prediction was made more than 500 years before! Then Jesus began to preach that “the time is fulfilled.”
only 1 week left for the Jews.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Gospel .....
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Jesus was “cut off” or crucified “in the middle of the week,” which is three and a half years after His anointing—or the spring of ad 31. Please notice that the gospel is revealed in verse 26: “After the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.” No—praise God!—when Jesus was cut off, it was not for Himself. He “who committed no sin” (1 Peter 2:22) was crucified for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3; Isaiah 53:5). Jesus lovingly and willingly offered His life to save us from sin.
The covenant is His blessed agreement to save people from their sins (Hebrews 10:16, 17). After His ministry of three and a half years ended, Jesus confirmed the covenant through His disciples (Hebrews 2:3). He sent them first to the Jewish nation (Matthew 10:5, 6) because His chosen people still had three and a half years remaining of their 490-year opportunity to repent as a nation.
They began preaching the gospel to other people and nations of the world (Acts 13:46). Stephen, a righteous deacon, was publicly stoned in ad 34. From that date onward, the Jews, because they collectively rejected Jesus and God’s plan, could no longer be God’s chosen people or nation. Instead, God now counts people of all nationalities who accept and serve Him as spiritual Jews. They have become His chosen people—“heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:27–29). Spiritual Jews, of course, include Jewish people who individually accept and serve Jesus (Romans 2:28, 29).
457 bc -- 69 weeks -- 27 ad -- 1 week -- 34 ad.
It all fits perfectly
so 70 weeks = 490 days = 490 years.
Eze 4:6, Num 14:34.
When was the beginning? The starting event was a decree from Persian King Artaxerxes authorizing God’s people (who were captive in Medo-Persia) to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the city. The decree, found in Ezra chapter 7, was issued in 457 bc—the seventh year of the king (verse 7)—and was implemented in the autumn. Artaxerxes began his reign in 464 bc.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
So from the command to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah is 69 weeks. 7+60+2= 69.
Does it fit History? Yes! Moving ahead 483 years (69 prophetic weeks) from the fall of 457 bc reaches the fall of ad 27. (Note: There is no year 0.) The word “Messiah” includes the meaning of “anointed” John 1:41. Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:38) at His baptism (Luke 3:21,22). His anointing took place in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar (Luke 3:1), which was ad 27. And to think that the prediction was made more than 500 years before! Then Jesus began to preach that “the time is fulfilled.”
only 1 week left for the Jews.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Gospel .....
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Jesus was “cut off” or crucified “in the middle of the week,” which is three and a half years after His anointing—or the spring of ad 31. Please notice that the gospel is revealed in verse 26: “After the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.” No—praise God!—when Jesus was cut off, it was not for Himself. He “who committed no sin” (1 Peter 2:22) was crucified for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3; Isaiah 53:5). Jesus lovingly and willingly offered His life to save us from sin.
The covenant is His blessed agreement to save people from their sins (Hebrews 10:16, 17). After His ministry of three and a half years ended, Jesus confirmed the covenant through His disciples (Hebrews 2:3). He sent them first to the Jewish nation (Matthew 10:5, 6) because His chosen people still had three and a half years remaining of their 490-year opportunity to repent as a nation.
They began preaching the gospel to other people and nations of the world (Acts 13:46). Stephen, a righteous deacon, was publicly stoned in ad 34. From that date onward, the Jews, because they collectively rejected Jesus and God’s plan, could no longer be God’s chosen people or nation. Instead, God now counts people of all nationalities who accept and serve Him as spiritual Jews. They have become His chosen people—“heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:27–29). Spiritual Jews, of course, include Jewish people who individually accept and serve Jesus (Romans 2:28, 29).
457 bc -- 69 weeks -- 27 ad -- 1 week -- 34 ad.
It all fits perfectly
Nope, you are wrong. It is just your opinion so the label 'correct interpretation' is misleading.
This prophesy is about a timeline and not a poem, a timeline that ends with the end of age and not 70AD. I agree with you, there shouldn't be any suspension of time until the end but it is way complex than that. You are supposed to calculate and come up with validated answers. Your calculation is a miss, you claim 69th week is when Jesus was crucified but also claim 70AD was the end of the 70 weeks prophesy- from 33AD to 70AD is more than 5 weeks already. Are we talking about 75 weeks or are we still in 70 weeks prophesy?
You don't understand;
-Messiah being cut off- has nothing to do with crucifixion of Jesus
-The time line is more complex- requires application of modern Gregorian calendar + two calendar stencils, the 70 week and the 2300 evenings and mornings to get it.
- Rev 13:18 (666) is key in understanding Daniel
- It is all spiritual and there's nothing physical about this prophesy
Yours caring,
Noose.
This prophesy is about a timeline and not a poem, a timeline that ends with the end of age and not 70AD. I agree with you, there shouldn't be any suspension of time until the end but it is way complex than that. You are supposed to calculate and come up with validated answers. Your calculation is a miss, you claim 69th week is when Jesus was crucified but also claim 70AD was the end of the 70 weeks prophesy- from 33AD to 70AD is more than 5 weeks already. Are we talking about 75 weeks or are we still in 70 weeks prophesy?
You don't understand;
-Messiah being cut off- has nothing to do with crucifixion of Jesus
-The time line is more complex- requires application of modern Gregorian calendar + two calendar stencils, the 70 week and the 2300 evenings and mornings to get it.
- Rev 13:18 (666) is key in understanding Daniel
- It is all spiritual and there's nothing physical about this prophesy
Yours caring,
Noose.
Well I checked it out. It would make sense, this way we could avoid creating a MASSIVE gap of two millennium, anyone got something to say about that? @delirious @others?
^ Then we could also consider the following passage to mean "two" [and the "third"] literal 24-hr days, and we could go hunting for how that [24-hr days] was fulfilled:
Hosea 5:15-6:3 -
"15 I will go and return to my place, till they [Israel] acknowledge their [Israel's] offence, and seek my face: in their [Israel's] affliction they [Israel] will seek me early [/earnestly].
1 Come, and let us [Israel] return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us [Israel]; he hath smitten, and he will bind us [Israel] up.
2 After two days will he revive us [Israel]: in the third day he will raise us [Israel] up, and we [Israel] shall live in his sight. [consider similar wording in Ezek37 and other parallels I've listed before]
3 Then shall we [of Israel] know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us [Israel] as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
Then there's also the wording "unto the messiah the prince" and that Palm Sunday [in fulfillment of Zechariah 9:9 "thy king cometh unto thee" (speaking of "Jerusalem"--recall "and upon thy holy city")] was the first time He allowed the city to "bless" Him as such... and then He spoke the words that He did in Luke 19:42-44 ("the things which belong unto thy peace!" [speaking of "Jerusalem"]... "but now they are hid from thine eyes"...); and considering also Rom9:26/Hos1:10 [re: Israel], and Rom9:25/Hos2:23b [re: the Gentiles], and the "blindness... UNTIL" aspect of Rom11:25-28 [15]… and more...
Hosea 5:15-6:3 -
"15 I will go and return to my place, till they [Israel] acknowledge their [Israel's] offence, and seek my face: in their [Israel's] affliction they [Israel] will seek me early [/earnestly].
1 Come, and let us [Israel] return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us [Israel]; he hath smitten, and he will bind us [Israel] up.
2 After two days will he revive us [Israel]: in the third day he will raise us [Israel] up, and we [Israel] shall live in his sight. [consider similar wording in Ezek37 and other parallels I've listed before]
3 Then shall we [of Israel] know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us [Israel] as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
Then there's also the wording "unto the messiah the prince" and that Palm Sunday [in fulfillment of Zechariah 9:9 "thy king cometh unto thee" (speaking of "Jerusalem"--recall "and upon thy holy city")] was the first time He allowed the city to "bless" Him as such... and then He spoke the words that He did in Luke 19:42-44 ("the things which belong unto thy peace!" [speaking of "Jerusalem"]... "but now they are hid from thine eyes"...); and considering also Rom9:26/Hos1:10 [re: Israel], and Rom9:25/Hos2:23b [re: the Gentiles], and the "blindness... UNTIL" aspect of Rom11:25-28 [15]… and more...
After two days, in other words on the third day, Christ revived from the dead along with Hosea and the other Old Testament saints and Hosea and the rest lived in the sight of Christ. Then Christ came on to Israel, the ones who went on to know the Lord and Christ came on to them as the latter rain.
If we look at the scripture in Daniel 9:27 concerning the 70th week, we see that the prince who comes causes the sacrifice to cease.
In Daniel 8:11, we have a description of a little horn, who likewise causes the sacrifice to cease.
In regards to the little horn and his actions that include his causing the sacrifice to cease/be taken away,
Gabriel informs Daniel that these events regard the end times in Daniel 8:17 & 19.
These events are also described in Daniel chapter 11, to which the angel again informs Daniel that the time in which they take place are in the end times, and at which time knowledge of what these things represent would increase (Daniel 12:4 & 9).
These things are only now beginning to be unsealed with our understanding of what they represent increasing.
Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
In Daniel 8:11, we have a description of a little horn, who likewise causes the sacrifice to cease.
In regards to the little horn and his actions that include his causing the sacrifice to cease/be taken away,
Gabriel informs Daniel that these events regard the end times in Daniel 8:17 & 19.
These events are also described in Daniel chapter 11, to which the angel again informs Daniel that the time in which they take place are in the end times, and at which time knowledge of what these things represent would increase (Daniel 12:4 & 9).
These things are only now beginning to be unsealed with our understanding of what they represent increasing.
Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Okay, so Daniel 12:13 says (of Daniel [OT saint]), "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest [that is, in death], and stand in thy lot [that is, be resurrected to stand again on the earth] AT THE END of the days [that is, at the END of the 'days' referred to in that CONTEXT: vv.6-7,1-4]."
So you are suggesting that that [very specific(-ally-worded-in-Hebrew)] time period of "a time, times, and an half" was the time period of Jesus' [3.5-yr] earthly ministry while still alive/before His death? (known as "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [Israel] even to that same time"...?? [v.1]) Doesn't make sense to me, sorry to say.
Hello TheDivineWatermark,Okay, so Daniel 12:13 says (of Daniel [OT saint]), "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest [that is, in death], and stand in thy lot [that is, be resurrected to stand again on the earth] AT THE END of the days [that is, at the END of the 'days' referred to in that CONTEXT: vv.6-7,1-4]."
So you are suggesting that that [very specific(-ally-worded-in-Hebrew)] time period of "a time, times, and an half" was the time period of Jesus' [3.5-yr] earthly ministry while still alive/before His death? (known as "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [Israel] even to that same time"...?? [v.1]) Doesn't make sense to me, sorry to say.
There are only two other areas with similar description to the time, times, and an half in Daniel 12:7. These appear in Daniel 7:25 as a time, and times, and the dividing of time; and in Revelation 12:14 as a time, and times, and half a time, to which Revelation 12:6 explains represents 1,260 days.
A time = 1+ times =2+ half a time=1/2=total of 3.5 times.
1,260 days divided by 3.5 times=360 days
1 time = 360 days
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Revelation 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
At the end of Israels days Daniel and all of the old testament that weren't translated (Enoch and Elijah and maybe others that aren't mentioned) rose with Christ.
The time of Jacobs trouble was when Christ came. Christ cursed them, took the kingdom from them and then sent armies in AD 70 to destroy them.... How do you not figure that's not the time of Jacob's trouble?So you are suggesting that that [very specific(-ally-worded-in-Hebrew)] time period of "a time, times, and an half" was the time period of Jesus' [3.5-yr] earthly ministry while still alive/before His death? (known as "a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [Israel] even to that same time"...?? [v.1]) Doesn't make sense to me, sorry to say.
Let's say you're right and that's not the time of Jacob's trouble and it's really at the end of time, then where do you see TWO destruction's of Israel in the Old Testament?
Exactly, the three time like descriptions all pertain to the end of the current age.Yes.
I'm telling KJV1611 "why" I disagree with his take on it.
I'm just pointing out the CHRONOLOGY of the passage. Daniel was told he would "rest, and stand in thy lot" AT THE END OF THE DAYS (the END of the "a time, times, and an half" of said CONTEXT [the answer to the Q in vv.6-7 of "how long till the end of these wonders" (v.1, etc)])… and you were suggesting that that "end" was when Jesus resurrected (thus making the "time period" correlate with His earthly ministry, 3.5y, rather than AFTER His death)--this is what you seemed to be saying in that other post, and now you are simply disregarding the chronology altogether. hmm.
This is totally incorrect. The time of Jacob's trouble cannot be dissociated from the reign of the Antichrist, and that is yet in the future.
Personally, I believe it refers to "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (yet future to occur) that is NOT a part of "this present age [singular]," but that immediately precedes "the age [singular] to come" which is the [their] promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (what was promised to Israel). The disciples (at the time of their inquiry to Jesus in Matt24:3 [asking because He'd ALREADY spoken to them about it in Matt13:30,39,40,49-50 (when the angels will "REAP")]) had NO knowledge [at that time] of that which is known [presently] as "this present age [singular]," and no one today is preaching "the kingdom if the heavens IS AT HAND" like they did in the early parts of Jesus' earthly ministry (that ceased being said, at some point), and which is the equivalent of "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [i.e. the future earthly MK]; but instead is being conveyed that which pertains to "the MARRIAGE" itself, instead (2Cor11:2, etc).
[note how Eph2:7 speaks of "ages [plural] that are coming" from the point in time of "this present age [singular]"; and from their perspective (meaning the disciples who'd asked Him), just "the age [singular] to come [the (FUTURE) MK age]" ]