What does God want in Christian churches?

[BibleloverBill]

The ugliness within certainly came out in the above! What a hate filled rant, filled with false witness! SHAMEFUL!

We should love what God loves and hate what God hates. We should not hate or condemn individuals.
But Jesus Christ also commanded us to agapè love our enemies.
True Christians should be going for God's best in relating with all others.
So agapè is for spouses on down to even our enemies.
Think of a 10-1 scale:
10-9 love for enemies (with no praying for bad for them),
8-7 love for acquaintances at public places,
6-4 for best friends and relatives,
3-1 for Christian spouse.

 

[BibleloverBill]

Hmmmm. Well, brother, you're condemning a lot of people by saying most are there for selfish reasons. You my friend do not know the hearts of people, and apparently you hold them in some disdain. Keep in mind I'm a member of a church, so are many on here that you're condemning, and you're talking to us here.

You've determined that you are not sinning by being out of church, but I would have to say that you are indeed "missing the mark."

I want to put it out there; no perfect NT churches existed, they weren't all perfectly biblical, just look at all the issues within them, yet this was not an excuse to leave them and label the persons there as selfish or any other such thing so as to have reason to depart.

There are in any given church those who have "not bowed their knee to Baal." They exist in churches you've visited, and are among the many you've condemned in your disappointment. I know it is easy to do when it seems so discouraging.

You probably would have left these early NT churches as well because the same issues existed, so the statement by many "I want our church to be like the early church" is not well thought out.

Now, there has to be much more detail to the problems you ran into with the two pastors. Did they wish you to stand and condemn Billy Graham, publicly, and you refused? What I mean is, how did this come about? And the elephant in the room; why would you not condemn him? He was ecumenical, preached some mysticism (people are saved outside of Christ) since you deem others as going for selfish reasons as reason not to attend? I think the issues with Graham were far more serious than determining people go for selfish reasons.

Why should people go to church, for what reason?

So a pastor didn't visit you? We were in a church for a long while, barely did the pastor or his wife ever speak to us, but to all others yes. They refused to visit us or others who visited there. Flat out refused, said so from the pulpit in attempt to drive us out. This church was all of 20 people, so it wasn't that it was too big, there were internal issues, power struggles, truncated gospel, no out reach, and a Diotrophes attitude.

But we stayed there regardless of his asinine attitude until God moved us along. We don't let people drive us out like that until we know it is from God.

Yes, the preacher got it wrong on a detail concerning the ram/lamb, yet, that is no reason to walk out of a church. Yes, he was wrong brother but that is one bizarre excuse to leave.

Bottom line is there is no reason for you to be out of church, you're out of church because you want to be and apparently any excuse will work for you. None of the reasons you've given are biblically valid reasons to be out of church.

False accusations!! I am not condemning anyone. There are two kinds of Christians:
Note: my logical indenting is not recognized by the software in this site.
1 Corinthians 3
10 According to the grace (the special endowment for my task) of God bestowed on me,
like a skillful architect and master builder I laid [the] foundation,
and now another [man or woman] is building upon it.
But let each [one] be careful how one builds upon it,
11 for no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid,
which is Jesus Christ (The Messiah, The Anointed One).
12 But if anyone builds upon The Foundation, whether it be with
gold, silver, precious stones,
wood, hay, straw,
13 the work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known;
for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it,
because it will be revealed with fire,
and the fire will test and critically appraise
the character and worth of the work each person has done.
14 If the work which any person has built on this Foundation
[any product of his (or her) efforts whatever] survives [this test],
he (or she) will get his (or her) reward.
15 But if any person's work is burned up [under the test],
he (or she) will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his (or her) reward],
though he (or she) will be saved,
but only as [one who has passed] through fire.

***What is the most important fact in that passage?
How do you know that verse 12 is about true Christians?

John 10
Jesus Christ said,
14 I am The Shepherd Who cares for the sheep.
I know My sheep just as The Father knows Me.
And My sheep know Me just as I know The Father.
I give My life for these sheep.
15 Even as the Father knows Me, I also know the Father.
And I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep too.
They are not in this flock here.
I must lead them also.
They will listen to My voice.
In the future there will be one flock and one Shepherd.
***What are the probable priorities of the two types of Gospel believers?
How can you improve in your use of time so that you are building more on the foundation of Jesus Christ?

27 My sheep listen to My voice.
I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give My sheep Eternal Life.
They will never die,
and no one can take them out of My hand.
29 My Father is the one Who gave them to Me,
and He is greater than all.
No one can steal My sheep out of His hand.
30 The Father and I are One.”

All of the following Bible study tools are free to download and use and share:
***Very Important Teachings in John 13-17-- ETRS (7 pgs.)--
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1-- Kingdom Living PowerPoint Presentation--
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***Two Kinds of Christians-- Part 1 in ETRSF (9 pgs.)
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1a) Thesis about Basic Christianity in ETRSF (51 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/bx9mqm38ml4vgdn16bchs0d5453q3x02

1b.) Abnormal True Children of God Scriptures-- in ETRSF (19 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/qjhelfpshxs1f2moi999yvtthjp4xlzo

1c.) Great for finding great verses and contexts in ETRSF (240 pgs.)--
https://app.box.com/s/0axtq9gg3z7j7ikxa069kej8w5dohrmj

 

[Lillywolf]

I read it and I did compare it to the cults; it is about 2 kinds of individuals. More came to my mind about that cult that was supposed to be in New Mexico now, I remembered that it was being pressured by law enforcement. And there might have been arrests. The cult's response was that they were being wrongly persecuted. Have you ever been involved or visited cults? In Germany, I was in a church led by a Calvinist who was a retired Marine officer who survived fighting in the offensive in Kuwait and Iraq. But he became like a cult leader mostly of university students. He also forbid anyone from divorcing and remarrying, even ones in horrible abusive marriages. He and his wife rarely smiled or manifested thankfulness and joy.

I had a cult encounter when I was a pre-teen. Same personality type led that cult/church as you describe. Staunchly legalist and yet as married couples they were clearly miserable. The dad's, pastor and co-pastor, believed in corporal punishment of kids and for as long as they lived under the family roof.
While their kids were the worst behaved in the church. They planned to start a school so as to raise the future generations in Christ and break the spirit of the Devil in those who would arrive from the public school experience.
I don't know if they ever got it off the ground.. I'd hope not for kids sakes.

 

[preacher4truth]

We should love what God loves and hate what God hates. We should not hate or condemn individuals.
But Jesus Christ also commanded us to agapè love our enemies.
True Christians should be going for God's best in relating with all others.
So agapè is for spouses on down to even our enemies.
Think of a 10-1 scale:
10-9 love for enemies (with no praying for bad for them),
8-7 love for acquaintances at public places,
6-4 for best friends and relatives,
3-1 for Christian spouse.

I agree but there was no hate or condemnation in my response to her drivel. Her post? Well, if you're handing out reprimands you should go there, not here.

If I took your post wrong, my apologies. If I took it correctly, well, you're barking up the wrong tree bro!

 

[preacher4truth]

False accusations!! I am not condemning anyone.

Your condemn-ometer is way off.

You did, in fact, condemn. It appears you cannot handle any correction.

Who knows, maybe those churches are better off if you stayed away because I'm seeing a pattern here.

 

[Lillywolf]

Spoken like a cult member! Maybe one who has even had instructions on how to deal with people who disagree with the cult line.

Sorry you have drunk the cool-aid. I've been on the fence about you, since you joined. Well, I've made up my mind. And I don't put people on ignore who are posting false doctrine, so you will either have to put me on ignore, or deal with me.

Please reach out to Jesus! He will rescue from these false teachers and liars! Read your Bible without their hand book, and one day, you will see how deceived you have been. I promise God will help you out of this cult. But only if you want to escape, of course!

You poor soul. Do you feel better now? Just for future reference when you want to prove me right in your next behavior escapade and that's reacted to by your followers, it's KOOL-AID! Not cool-aid.

That is all.
Carry on.

 

[Angela53510]

You poor soul. Do you feel better now? Just for future reference when you want to prove me right in your next behavior escapade and that's reacted to by your followers, it's KOOL-AID! Not cool-aid.

That is all.
Carry on.

Well, I am using Voice to Text software. I am disabled and can't type. Sometimes I miss the corrections. But for all you know, it could be the way Canadians write it. Fortunately, I did catch it elsewhere. Oh, my computer is just learning to use this software. It should get better, or maybe my hands will work again.

Carry on, you poor soul! If all you have to do with your time is correct my software, you must have a pretty good life.

 

[oldethennew]

oh my,
this is heart-breaking in all areas...

ask your selves, where does one draw 'the line' in their own journey in their relationship
to others relationships in Christ Jesus, our Lord and Saviour???

before words are spoken, do we ask ourselves 'why' we so rapidly respond' ?
before thinking and asking our Saviour to guide our words in Love???

Brother Paul gives us ALL of the answers to our questions in his humility and love
for all of 'the brethren' in Christ Jesus; read his 'letters that Yeshua gave to him...

 

[BibleloverBill]

I did and that's why I said before sharing their link to the specific article concerning the difference between Ekklesia and church, that I did not subscribe to their system but their article was of interest.
It in many ways shares the save Biblical evidences as did the other source link that I shared and excerpted from.
When I first found that home page you refer to my gut clinched. Then I did further research an found the Ekklesia article. If they do some good in that information at least there is that which serves the Lord.

I think it is good too to bring in the Ekklesia information as well as it can be that Bible readers have forgotten that term as pertains to scripture.
Also, that no one bothers to learn about Ekklesia but keep to what they don't know while making personal attacks is educational too. It all serves God's purpose. Don't you think?

***All religions and even businesses and politicians have to have a certain amount of God's truths in order to be successful. In that website, much of the "Seven Myths Of Denominationalism" information was Biblical. The major problem of the religions is that they have done the violations mentioned at the end of the Book of Revelation in regards to the Christian Salvation Gospel and the Christian Sanctification Gospel. But as I said in another posting, I visited the cult in California and read some of their literature. Also I mentioned that earlier this year I read some news articles about arrests being done at their New Mexico compound. I sent an e-mail to the address in the website and got the mailbox full notice. I didn't feel led to search more to see if they were disbanded.

 

[BibleloverBill]

oh my,
this is heart-breaking in all areas...

ask your selves, where does one draw 'the line' in their own journey in their relationship
to others relationships in Christ Jesus, our Lord and Saviour???

before words are spoken, do we ask ourselves 'why' we so rapidly respond' ?
before thinking and asking our Saviour to guide our words in Love???

Brother Paul gives us ALL of the answers to our questions in his humility and love
for all of 'the brethren' in Christ Jesus; read his 'letters that Yeshua gave to him...

***You were actually indicating the Golden Rule which is in 20 Holy Books other than the Bible. I teach the Golden Rule this way and live it most of the time: "Think before I say or do things, would I want them said or done to me." Most of our mistakes are when we are too hasty in communicating and don't take time to think of the possible consequences and ask God to guide us via His Holy Spirit. We would have a wonderful world if such was done a lot more, but anxiousness and selfishness usually stop such. That verse is actually secular and humanistic. It doesn't mention God or Jesus. But the better way of living is indicated in Romans 8 and Galatians 5:1-6:10. What is indicated in those Bible passages for daily living? I am going to start a new thread for that discussion, because in the past 15 years of Internet ministering this issue and unforgiveness have been very prevalent.

 

[BibleloverBill]

I agree but there was no hate or condemnation in my response to her drivel. Her post? Well, if you're handing out reprimands you should go there, not here.

If I took your post wrong, my apologies. If I took it correctly, well, you're barking up the wrong tree bro!

***Whose drivel? You have gone against a number of my posts with false accusations showing no understanding of them and limited understanding of current Christianity. Is it due to very quick reactions as if you are in a chatroom?

I am not handing out reprimands!!! What truth are you a preacher of? I only teach and do friendship evangelism with only the Biblical truths and wisdom as the Holy Spirit reminds me. I am 71-years-old and have listened to many many sermons. I have ETRSFed (logically indent formatted) all of the New Testament (Revelation 4 times) and 3/5s of the Old Testament, and over 200 Bible word studies. My ministry is titled "For Sharing Truths".

Isaiah 55:11
God said,
“So shall My Word be that goes forth out of My mouth:
it shall not return unto Me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
***And good Bible education is rare in most Christian churches.

2 Timothy 2:15
“Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God,
a workman [or workwoman] who does not need to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the Word of Truth.”

Isaiah 28:9-10
“Whom shall He teach knowledge?
And whom shall He make to understand doctrine?
They who are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.”

Have your ever heard or done a sermon about Resurrected Sanctification or Jude 23-25 Living? I believe that churches should have Bible study groups and Biblical counseling available every day and night to help such happen. We learn and retain a lot more after discussions than we do after sermons or lectures. We should be using this time of religious freedom to prepare when such freedoms are no longer.

 

[BibleloverBill]

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[Lillywolf]

oh my,
this is heart-breaking in all areas...

ask your selves, where does one draw 'the line' in their own journey in their relationship
to others relationships in Christ Jesus, our Lord and Saviour???

before words are spoken, do we ask ourselves 'why' we so rapidly respond' ?
before thinking and asking our Saviour to guide our words in Love???

Brother Paul gives us ALL of the answers to our questions in his humility and love
for all of 'the brethren' in Christ Jesus; read his 'letters that Yeshua gave to him...

Those who do not have the Savior launched the attack on those here who do, and that would include me before the enemies launch on that. You can find this for yourself.
There is a common thread in the wickedness that unfolds from the keyboard of a handful in service to the adverse of what you preach there.
They know this. They are incapable of caring. It is God's lesson is it not. Fruits! Set them into the land of none and it is a blessing how wonderfully peaceful things become in the world.

 

[Lillywolf]

***All religions and even businesses and politicians have to have a certain amount of God's truths in order to be successful. In that website, much of the "Seven Myths Of Denominationalism" information was Biblical. The major problem of the religions is that they have done the violations mentioned at the end of the Book of Revelation in regards to the Christian Salvation Gospel and the Christian Sanctification Gospel. But as I said in another posting, I visited the cult in California and read some of their literature. Also I mentioned that earlier this year I read some news articles about arrests being done at their New Mexico compound. I sent an e-mail to the address in the website and got the mailbox full notice. I didn't feel led to search more to see if they were disbanded.

Perhaps that their box was full was the evidence of that? (disbanded) No one there to check?
We have to be careful of groups and individuals that profess Christ.
The network is re-running the David Koresh travesty yet again. And why not? Just before the holidays. They close the one segment, I think there are three installments or so of the mini-series, with Koresh in a recorded conversation during the siege: "What if I am the Messiah?Not saying I am but what if I am?"

There are former Davidian people interviewed that actually say they believe his second coming will be in their lifetime. At least, they say, they hope so.

I don't agree with the siege of the compound. I know these people were murdered by federal order. However, no one who studies the word should ever think that teacher of the word is the Messiah returned. As soon as that flavor gets into the mix, LEAVE!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What does a God-pleasing church include?
What kinds of worship and preaching are pleasing to Abba Father?

they ought to try believing and acting on that belief, that the behavior the Bible says Christians ought to have, would be evident of Christ in their midst

there is only one way I can attend any church....keep my eyes on Jesus and expect exactly nothing from anyone else

this thread is evidence of what goes on in churches all the time even if only between the ears

perhaps Paul's advice is the best considering the fighting in this thread ...and no I don't see myself as above it all at all

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. I Corinthians 2

 

[Locutus]

 

[Lillywolf]

they ought to try believing and acting on that belief, that the behavior the Bible says Christians ought to have, would be evident of Christ in their midst

there is only one way I can attend any church....keep my eyes on Jesus and expect exactly nothing from anyone else

this thread is evidence of what goes on in churches all the time even if only between the ears

perhaps Paul's advice is the best considering the fighting in this thread ...and no I don't see myself as above it all at all

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. I Corinthians 2

I'm clearly not above it at all either. I tire of a bunch of darkness aligning together to go after me. And yet, rotted fruit stinks to Heaven and God is watching. If my presence here brings that out in those who are here for that purpose, so be it.
The excuse, they started it, isn't fitting as my reason for fighting back. But you'll notice when I stop responding having set the darkness to the abyss that they shall continue unfettered.

Do you know what the opposite of love is?


Indifference!

Do a hashtag tally of that which is dark in any thread here. Whether they target me or some other Christian. See how many of those there are making an effort, and a public spectacle.
Everything according to God's own plan. What happens here does happen in churches.

That which I refer to are so familiar. That which in church sings the hymns, keeps their eyes open while their heads are bowed for prayer, listen attentively to the sermon. And when the service is over gather in their little groups outside and talk like the devil about others who are leaving. Sometimes they smoke. And where do they cast their butts? You got it.

Microcosm, Macrocosm.

God is good all the time! And his opportunity for lessons in his word put into practice are never boring!

 

[oldethennew]

Those who do not have the Savior launched the attack on those here who do, and that would include me before the enemies launch on that. You can find this for yourself.
There is a common thread in the wickedness that unfolds from the keyboard of a handful in service to the adverse of what you preach there.
They know this. They are incapable of caring. It is God's lesson is it not. Fruits! Set them into the land of none and it is a blessing how wonderfully peaceful things become in the world.

=============================================================
precious one, we, hub and myself are well aware of the tactics of the 'wily-one' and of those of whom he has
a grasp of, mostly without their knowing -
we are never 'offended', quite the contrary, we can only rejoice that our spoken words are heard and, alas
the rest is up to our Heavenly Father concerning themselves and their choices, journey wise...
we just have to do our 'job', and our future is secured and a 'done deal'...

 

[Lillywolf]

***Whose drivel? You have gone against a number of my posts with false accusations showing no understanding of them and limited understanding of current Christianity. Is it due to very quick reactions as if you are in a chatroom?

I am not handing out reprimands!!! What truth are you a preacher of? I only teach and do friendship evangelism with only the Biblical truths and wisdom as the Holy Spirit reminds me. I am 71-years-old and have listened to many many sermons. I have ETRSFed (logically indent formatted) all of the New Testament (Revelation 4 times) and 3/5s of the Old Testament, and over 200 Bible word studies. My ministry is titled "For Sharing Truths".

Isaiah 55:11
God said,
“So shall My Word be that goes forth out of My mouth:
it shall not return unto Me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
***And good Bible education is rare in most Christian churches.

2 Timothy 2:15
“Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God,
a workman [or workwoman] who does not need to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the Word of Truth.”

Isaiah 28:9-10
“Whom shall He teach knowledge?
And whom shall He make to understand doctrine?
They who are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts.
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;
line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.”

Have your ever heard or done a sermon about Resurrected Sanctification or Jude 23-25 Living? I believe that churches should have Bible study groups and Biblical counseling available every day and night to help such happen. We learn and retain a lot more after discussions than we do after sermons or lectures. We should be using this time of religious freedom to prepare when such freedoms are no longer.

I'll let you in on a secret that among pastors isn't really that. A pastor I knew for many a year shared this when I first got a computer over a decade ago and told him I'd found Christians in community on the Internet.
I'm paraphrasing but this is the "secret" I wanted you to have and is as near to his actual words these many years since his passing as I can get without a tape recorder having been there. It wasn't.

Be careful daughter when you enter into such places. Anonymity is the Devil's greatest vice. If you happen on one that claims to be a minister of His word be careful first. Ask that one who openly states this on-line what their name is and what church they pastor. (I've asked this on a forum in the past due to this years long advice). If that one who claims to be anointed to minister the word and advertise themselves as that in an anonymous venue, (like the Net), then refuses their answer to that question you my child are meeting a liar in the enemy's service.
This is why, as he explained. Any true pastor will give their name and the church they serve. They are not ashamed of the word. And doing so can also lead people who may be in their community to that church once they read that pastor's writing on the Net. Anywhere that they may choose to write at all. Even among Christian's in community. (like forums)

A false one who is lying about their anointing to serve God's word will refuse to answer that simple question. (What's your name? What church do you pastor?) Because with search engines available someone can look up a fake name that may be given in response, and a fake church too. And if the two don't match the lie becomes public. If the pastor name and church do match in a search the one committed to the search can contact that pastor and ask them if they are a member of that particular Christian's in community site. If that pastor is not, again, the lie is made public.

In my years on the Net I've encountered five people who's screen name or their own words in posts indicated they are a minister. Only one freely and joyfully gave not just their name and church but linked their church website in response. The other four not only refused but all four, different sites, over a period of years, were rude and sarcastic in their refusal.
That in itself told the truth. They were lying!

After all, why would someone anointed by the holy spirit to preach the word of God's truth to all the world refuse to give their name and church? When they openly claim in some way on the Internet in some other way to be an anointed pastor of the word of The Word?
Doesn't make sense, right?
Right.

Hope that helps.
Blessings.
And God's mercies continue to bless and surround my dear departed (real) pastor friend. Amen.

 

[Lillywolf]

=============================================================
precious one, we, hub and myself are well aware of the tactics of the 'wily-one' and of those of whom he has
a grasp of, mostly without their knowing -
we are never 'offended', quite the contrary, we can only rejoice that our spoken words are heard and, alas
the rest is up to our Heavenly Father concerning themselves and their choices, journey wise...
we just have to do our 'job', and our future is secured and a 'done deal'...

Brother/Sister, our future is eternally secured in Christ always.
Our "job" may be to suffer the slings and arrows of those in service to the wily-one. And yet, we do have a choice as to whether we shall allow ourselves to be a target or not.
I choose not. I know God does not hear the prayers of sinners. His word tells me this. i won't presume he is unaware of the wily one's agents anywhere they appear at all.Even on the Web that covers the world wide. I pray for such one's once when they bring themselves to my attention and then I carry my light forward and leave them to God. If they find him it is his will. If they remain property of the wily-one, they proudly served in public when catching my attention, they shall not be surprised to meet him when it is time. My prayers for them , are they wasted? If God doesn't hear the prayers of sinners, John 9:31, would he hear those who pray on their behalf? When he's known who are his, those who shall come to him through the son, before the world came to be?

The scriptures teach us and yet God is all and does as he pleases.
I don't suffer the slings and arrows of devils much. If God knows them they'll find their way home.