Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

But remember EVE was Deceived by Satan, and ADAM DELIBERATELY DID WHAT GOD TOLD HIM NOT TO DO. It is mostly ADAMS FAULT that we inherited the Sin Nature.

For by one man sin entered......is clear......

 

[TruthTalk]

Touche ........I am not impressed with Dallas Theological Seminary either......My Southern Baptist uncle went there and I for sure disagree with many things he embraces and peddles...like sharing his pulpit with other religions for one......

Hi decon, O' Brother sound the alarm for allowing "other religions" "Lies" coming through your uncles pulpit, say it ain't so! If ever I hear a pro word about "ecumenicalism", its time for me to leave town. and we are all disciples of Jesus Christ whether Male nor Female, Free nor Slave, as long as we all do the will of our Father in heaven.

We all belong to Christ, we are all joint heirs according God's promise.

Love you bro and God bless!

Galations3:28
29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.…

Matthew12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

 

[J70x7]

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[J70x7]

_________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________________
James 2:24
Do you see that by WORKS a man is justified; and not by faith only?

 

[theanointedwinner]

I want to see VCO post in the testimony section, make a new thread on something like "God's voice of ultimate obedience" (God spoke, VCO's body auto-obeyed) about trusting God

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

See post #76,224.

 

[mailmandan]

_________________________ View attachment 190647 __________________________________________________________________________________________
James 2:24
Do you see that by WORKS a man is justified; and not by faith only?

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.."The ESV reads, “they declared God just.” This is the "sense" in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[TruthTalk]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

Hi mailmandan, this is a clear presentation of the gospel, keep preaching the word,

God bless!

 

[VCO]

I want to see VCO post in the testimony section, make a new thread on something like "God's voice of ultimate obedience" (God spoke, VCO's body auto-obeyed) about trusting God

I do not think you understand, TRUST IS AN ESSENTIAL Part of Obedience. If you do not TRUST HIM, YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE TYPE OF OBEDIENCE THAT WILL ALWAYS STRIVE TO OBEY HIM. I am one of the unusual few, as I had that kind of TRUST from the FIRST NIGHT THAT HE SAVED ME. ONLY I was expecting HIM to DO SOMETHING SPECIAL IN MY LIFE, without me doing ANYTHING. For about two Months, I keep waiting for HIM to do something in my life. I mean, I did not read the BIBLE, just sat around expecting HIM to Do Something in my life. One Night I work in the Post Office, I GOT SO BORED WITH MY COUNTRY MUSIC RADIO CHANNEL, that I changed the Channel, and found a CHRISTIAN RADIO CHANNEL, and I did not know we even had one. It was the First Night that on the GRACE TO YOU program that Dr. John MacArthur was Teaching his way through the BOOK OF REVELATION. The First night was the taped Sermon called A Jet Tour Through Revelation. I QUICKLY REALIZED WHAT I WAS MISSING, IT WAS GOOD BIBLE TEACHING TO FEED MY NEW BORN HUMAN SPIRIT. I was hooked for life on that kind of Bible Teaching, as Dr. John MacArthur, (his second or third cousin is GENERAL MACARTHUR), he Read the Verses, and then he Explained what they Meant, and How it applied to my life.

Here is that same free Taped Sermon that first Aired about March 1, 1978, and it was edited Dec. 5, 1982.
https://www.gty.org/library/resources/sermons-library/scripture/1?book=66&chapter=0

 

[VCO]

Touche ........I am not impressed with Dallas Theological Seminary either......My Southern Baptist uncle went there and I for sure disagree with many things he embraces and peddles...like sharing his pulpit with other religions for one......

YOUR UNCLE WENT TO A NON-SOUTHERN BAPTIST SEMINARY, and they taught that THEY WERE NON-BAPTIST, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT. They are ONE OF THE FINEST NON-DENOMINATIONAL SEMINARY's IN THE LAND. Their Graduates go Churches like EVANGELICAL FREE CHURCHES, COMMUNITY CHURCHES (Like Grace Community Church), BIBLE CHURCHES, Grace Brethren Churches, Non-Denominational Baptist. SO WHAT DID HE EXPECT. PROVE YOUR SUPPOSED MISREPRESENTING COMMENT ABOUT OUR SEMINARY.

 

[theanointedwinner]

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5 NIV)

let's agree with Titus 3:5 that we are saved, not by righteous works, but by God's mercy

I hope we can agree with the Bible verse, instead of denying Titus 3:5,

I hope we don't pretend that Titus 3:5 is a misprint,
and we don't try to brush this verse under a rug
and we don't claim that Titus 3:5 is a mis-translation
and we don't claim that Titus 3:5 is illegitimate

I hope

may we all trust that Titus 3:5 is a legit bible verse that all can properly interpret, even long before dcontroversal ever laid eyes on the wonderous verse of Titus 3:5 and the eyes of David was pleased.

 

[VCO]

YOUR UNCLE WENT TO A NON-SOUTHERN BAPTIST SEMINARY, and they taught that THEY WERE NON-BAPTIST, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT. They are ONE OF THE FINEST NON-DENOMINATIONAL SEMINARY's IN THE LAND. Their Graduates go Churches like EVANGELICAL FREE CHURCHES, COMMUNITY CHURCHES (Like Grace Community Church), BIBLE CHURCHES, Grace Brethren Churches, Non-Denominational Baptist. SO WHAT DID HE EXPECT. PROVE YOUR SUPPOSED MISREPRESENTING COMMENT ABOUT OUR SEMINARY.

I forgot one: The Independent Fundamental Churches of America. We all would have NO PROBLEM hiring a Pastor that is the Graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, why? Because our Beliefs are ALL THE SAME. We are all Conservative Evangelical Churches.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi decon, O' Brother sound the alarm for allowing "other religions" "Lies" coming through your uncles pulpit, say it ain't so! If ever I hear a pro word about "ecumenicalism", its time for me to leave town. and we are all disciples of Jesus Christ whether Male nor Female, Free nor Slave, as long as we all do the will of our Father in heaven.

We all belong to Christ, we are all joint heirs according God's promise.

Love you bro and God bless!

Galations3:28
29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.…

Matthew12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Yeah it is crazy..........I remember when they (my Uncle and Aunt) started changing their belief system.....and going astray.....was tragic....

 

[mailmandan]

You are preaching that immortality comes first, then repentance and works worthy of repentance. This is simply a religious falsehood, an insidious lie that we have been warned against over and over. I hope the readers can see the trickery in this sentence.

Your preaching that immortality comes before "DOING" these things is a falsehood MMD. You have been shown many times now. I can only assume you know, and are teaching the religious falsehoods anyway.

Typical straw man argument and slander. Believers are not fooled by your long winded posts, full of scripture twisting, psycho babble, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and Hebrew Roots propaganda. You are not fooling me or my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat for one second with your perverted gospel of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

In regards to immortality, in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, we read - Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55 “O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I NEVER said that immortality or glorification comes before DOING these things in Romans 2:6-10. I was simply making the point that these good works done by believers are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (verse 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life (we are saved by grace through faith, not works), but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal, yet works-salvationists teach otherwise and there is a reason for that. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get mixed up by works-salvationists. 1. Believers have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. Believers are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. Believers will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. *Just because believers have not yet received their glorified bodies does not mean that "has everlasting life/has passed from death into life" is not a present possession.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

 

[dcontroversal]

YOUR UNCLE WENT TO A NON-SOUTHERN BAPTIST SEMINARY, and they taught that THEY WERE NON-BAPTIST, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT. They are ONE OF THE FINEST NON-DENOMINATIONAL SEMINARY's IN THE LAND. Their Graduates go Churches like EVANGELICAL FREE CHURCHES, COMMUNITY CHURCHES (Like Grace Community Church), BIBLE CHURCHES, Grace Brethren Churches, Non-Denominational Baptist. SO WHAT DID HE EXPECT. PROVE YOUR SUPPOSED MISREPRESENTING COMMENT ABOUT OUR SEMINARY.

Expect negative remarks from me........my post above was valid and he is not the only one to come out of that seminary teaching open communion, share pulpits with other religions, receive any baptism etc........

No matter how may times I have disagreed with you I have never given you a negative mark.....thanks.........

OUR SEMINARY....really....do you own stock, or a board member....maybe on staff

and you over generalized my statement....I did not say ALL people who came out of it were bad.....THANKS

 

[preacher4truth]

YOUR UNCLE WENT TO A NON-SOUTHERN BAPTIST SEMINARY, and they taught that THEY WERE NON-BAPTIST, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT. They are ONE OF THE FINEST NON-DENOMINATIONAL SEMINARY's IN THE LAND. Their Graduates go Churches like EVANGELICAL FREE CHURCHES, COMMUNITY CHURCHES (Like Grace Community Church), BIBLE CHURCHES, Grace Brethren Churches, Non-Denominational Baptist. SO WHAT DID HE EXPECT. PROVE YOUR SUPPOSED MISREPRESENTING COMMENT ABOUT OUR SEMINARY.

DTS is a hotbed of poor theology and error. Their Free Grace Theology has deceived many into believing they're "on their way to heaven no matter what."

Zane Hodges is the epitome of their error, one of its products. So is Lewis Sperry Chafer with his false dichotomy of believer/disciple that has made many a person at ease in their disobedience of the faith and Gospel.

The bottom line is it has accomplished the putting forth of a truncated gospel that has hoodwinked many.

 

[dcontroversal]

Typical straw man argument and slander. Believers are not fooled by your long winded posts, full of scripture twisting, psycho babble, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and Hebrew Roots propaganda. You are not fooling me or my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat for one second with your perverted gospel of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

In regards to immortality, in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, we read - Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55 “O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I NEVER said that immortality or glorification comes before DOING these things in Romans 2:6-10. I was simply making the point that these good works done by believers are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (verse 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life (we are saved by grace through faith, not works), but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal, yet works-salvationists teach otherwise and there is a reason for that. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get mixed up by works-salvationists. 1. Believers have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. Believers are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. Believers will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. *Just because believers have not yet received their glorified bodies does not mean that "has everlasting life/has passed from death into life" is not a present possession.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

AMEN brother......good defense of the Gospel........keep swinging

 

[dcontroversal]

Typical straw man argument and slander. Believers are not fooled by your long winded posts, full of scripture twisting, psycho babble, trickery, deceit, rhetoric and Hebrew Roots propaganda. You are not fooling me or my brothers and sisters in Christ on Christian Chat for one second with your perverted gospel of salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

In regards to immortality, in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, we read - Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. 55 “O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; 57 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

I NEVER said that immortality or glorification comes before DOING these things in Romans 2:6-10. I was simply making the point that these good works done by believers are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation. So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (verse 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life (we are saved by grace through faith, not works), but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal, yet works-salvationists teach otherwise and there is a reason for that. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)

There are 3 tenses to salvation that often get mixed up by works-salvationists. 1. Believers have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. Believers are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. Believers will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. *Just because believers have not yet received their glorified bodies does not mean that "has everlasting life/has passed from death into life" is not a present possession.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

Triple AMEN.......his self made religious pea soup is akin to cyanide............when one blends law and works then sprinkle in a little faith while disregarding numerous verses to the contrary.....one will be peddling that which has no power to save a flea, much less a man.....

 

[posthuman]

All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. ​

(Matthew 11:27) ​

​

Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son that the Son may glorify You, since You have given Him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. ​

(John 17:1-3) ​

this is eternal life: to know Him
if someone says, they do not have eternal life -- do they not by this say, they do not know Him?

 

[mailmandan]

All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. ​

(Matthew 11:27) ​

​

Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son that the Son may glorify You, since You have given Him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. ​

(John 17:1-3) ​

this is eternal life: to know Him
if someone says, they do not have eternal life -- do they not by this say, they do not know Him?

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with the Lord and not merely theoretical knowledge.