Has the law been put aside? If so, when?

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Ignorant antinomianism.

Oh, my friend, how I loathe that teaching. I was once one.

 

[preacher4truth]

The ceremonial law is fulfilled, as we no longer have to have an earthly high priest take some of our sheep, doves, oxen, etc., and sacrifice them for our sins. Jesus fulfilled that and the whole Law for us.

26-28 So now we have a high priest who perfectly fits our needs: completely holy, uncompromised by sin, with authority extending as high as God’s presence in heaven itself. Unlike the other high priests, he doesn’t have to offer sacrifices for his own sins every day before he can get around to us and our sins. He’s done it, once and for all: offered up himself as the sacrifice. The law appoints as high priests men who are never able to get the job done right. But this intervening command of God, which came later, appoints the Son, who is absolutely, eternally perfect.(Hebrews 7)


Now, that does not mean the moral law is set aside. In fact, it’s still wrong to lie, steal, commit adultery and idolatry, murder, etc.

Yes, and he didn't, as other priests, have to offer up a sacrifice for himself; Hebrews 7:27. This is meaning and showing that he himself was sinless, had kept every point of the Law, and fulfilled it; Romans 5. Without this he could not be our eternal High Priest who saved us with a one time offering, perfecting us forever who are sanctified; Hebrews 10:14. Thus, through his obedience, life, death, resurrection we are saved. You can't toss out one aspect and have a perfect Savior.

 

[UnderGrace]

Oh, my friend, how I loathe that teaching. I was once one.

Can you tell me in which church you received antinomianism teaching?

I just have not find that church where the pastor says just "live like the devil, its all good."

Now I do live a big, big city, and I do get around but I have yet to find one

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Can you tell me in which church you received antinomianism teaching?

I just have not find that church where the pastor says just "live like the devil, its all good."

Now I do live a big, big city, and I do get around but I have yet to find one

They said the Law was given to the Jews and not the Gentiles. That’s antinomianism at its finest.

 

[UnderGrace]

They said the Law was given to the Jews and not the Gentiles. That’s antinomianism at its finest.

Can you find in scripture where the law was also given to the gentiles?

 

[UnderGrace]

They said the Law was given to the Jews and not the Gentiles. That’s antinomianism at its finest.

So are you saying that I follow lawlessness because I stated I was never under the law as the Jews were?

However, you still have not answered my question?

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Can you find in scripture where the law was also given to the gentiles?

The law is written upon on people’s hearts.


14-16 When outsiders who have never heard of God’s law follow it more or less by instinct, they confirm its truth by their obedience. They show that God’s law is not something alien, imposed on us from without, but woven into the very fabric of our creation. There is something deep within them that echoes God’s yes and no, right and wrong. Their response to God’s yes and no will become public knowledge on the day God makes his final decision about every man and woman. The Message from God that I proclaim through Jesus Christ takes into account all these differences.(Romans2)

Now, the Law(the sacrificial system) was solely given to the Jews. But all peoples of all time have had the law of God written upon their hearts. Or as The Message puts it, “but woven into the very fabric of our creation”.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So are you saying that I follow lawlessness because I stated I was never under the law as the Jews were?

However, you still have not answered my question?

If you’re not under God’s law, you would not commit sin if you commit idolatry, adultery, murder, steal, etc.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So are you saying that I follow lawlessness because I stated I was never under the law as the Jews were?

However, you still have not answered my question?

I never said anything close to this, my friend. I didn’t even know you said that, as I haven’t read every post in this thread.

 

[UnderGrace]

Oh, my friend, how I loathe that teaching. I was once one.

Lets just put all the other stuff aside for now, where is this teaching you loathe, can you name the author, church etc.,?

 

[Ahwatukee]

What do you think it means that "the law is fulfilled". Do you believe it means that we can disregard everything scripture says about the law now?

No, I don't believe that it means that we have carte blanche to disregard the law and do whatever we want and there is something wrong with the spirit of those who would think that way.

The Law has been fulfilled on our behalf. We are no longer under that covenant, but under a new covenant of those who follow Christ and are led by the Spirit. Jesus didn't come to fulfill the Law so that we could continue to try and meet its requirements.

"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."

"Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin. But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

If God is eternal then God doesn't change. What God says would also be eternal.

You are correct in that, God does not change. The Law was simply fulfilled through Christ. He met the Law's righteous requirements on every believers behalf, satisfying it completely. So what do we do? We follow Christ and if we fail at anything, that is, if we sin, we confess our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanses us from all unrighteousness. As we continue in faith in Him we are being transformed into His image, which is a life-long process.

I am 93 years old now, it won't be long until I will see if God is truthful or not so I will live on. If God is going to change things on a whim I am in trouble deep, Can't depend on such a God.

God didn't change anything, He appeared in the flesh and met the righteous requirements of the Law that we who are under sin are unable to do. Now by believing in Him, the fulfillment of the Law has been credited to us by faith through the One who accomplished it.

I am betting my life on that God is eternal, mighty, and true.

I would completely agree with that sir.

Have a blessed day!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Thanks.
I guess I was misunderstanding you.
You were saying that the law (the Law) has not been set aside.

I'm still not sure if you mean the books of the Law and the Prophets, or the law itself.
Sometimes the term "the Law" is referring to the books. (not the law itself)

Hello again Sketch,

Yes, that is correct. Jesus did not come to set aside the Law , but in kinning himself to us as a human being He fulfilled the Law, satisfying it completely, which is also applied to us who believe. He also took upon Himself God's wrath that we deserve. Therefore, those who are in Christ, like Abraham, have been credited with righteousness and the wrath of God no longer rests upon those who believe. Those who have no faith and die in that state, will be judged for every idle word they have ever spoken and the wrath of God remains upon them.

 

[Grandpa]

The ceremonial law is fulfilled, as we no longer have to have an earthly high priest take some of our sheep, doves, oxen, etc., and sacrifice them for our sins. Jesus fulfilled that and the whole Law for us.

26-28 So now we have a high priest who perfectly fits our needs: completely holy, uncompromised by sin, with authority extending as high as God’s presence in heaven itself. Unlike the other high priests, he doesn’t have to offer sacrifices for his own sins every day before he can get around to us and our sins. He’s done it, once and for all: offered up himself as the sacrifice. The law appoints as high priests men who are never able to get the job done right. But this intervening command of God, which came later, appoints the Son, who is absolutely, eternally perfect.(Hebrews 7)


Now, that does not mean the moral law is set aside. In fact, it’s still wrong to lie, steal, commit adultery and idolatry, murder, etc.

How do you reconcile what you have just said with scripture??

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Lord didn't say He came to fulfill some of the law. He said He came to fulfill ALL of it. And not one jot or tittle would pass from that Law until ALL is fulfilled.

I sometimes wonder if people know they are contradicting Christ...

 

[p_rehbein]

How can folks not see?

Jesus Himself FULFILLED the Law.........the Law under the First Covenant........call it whatever you choose

He established the New Covenant, GRACE, and, in so doing, He also gave us a NEW LAW, the Law of Faith as spoken of by the Apostle Paul...........

The Church IS NOT under the Law of the First Covenant that pertained to Ceremonial and Dietary Laws...........yes, the Laws concerning Moral Living did transfer over to the New Covenant. And, yes, some do not accept that........but it is in Scripture, and in the words of Jesus Himself.

The Law of the First Covenant (call it what you will........) did not cease........it simply DOES NOT APPLY to the Church that Christ established. It still exists, AND, if someone chooses to try and LIVE by that Law, they WILL BE JUDGED BY THAT LAW and NOT by Grace as will the Church. Both Christ and the Apostle made it quite clear that NO ONE will be saved by the Law of the First Covenant! NO ONE! So, anyone choosing to live in obedience to that Law is simply throwing their Eternity with Christ out the window.

As long as there is a Jew who refuses to confess Christ as the Messiah, the Promised One, and remains committed to trying to live under the Law of the First Covenant, the Law will remain. I truly feel sorry for anyone who believes they must live under such a Law to receive Eternal Life.........goodness.......Christ DIED to make it CLEAR to ONE and ALL that that Law WILL NOT justify ANYONE!
No one, no one, NO ONE can LIVE in perfect obedience to the Law of the First Covenant, ergo, they are assured of being found GUILTY come the day of Judgement............and they will reap the eternal reward of the guilty............and THAT AIN'T Eternal Life with Christ!

Judaisers are very, very dangerous, and a direct threat to the Church in my opinion!

 

[p_rehbein]

FOR CLARIFICATION:

paul and the judaizers...his attempts to thwart the teachings ...

EXCERPT

More numerous are references to the ideological differences with "those who would lead them astray." These were people who were perceived by Paul as serious and dangerous adversaries and came to be known as "Judaizers" (Encyclopedia Judaica, 1971, Vol. 10, p. 398; New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 8, p. 13) The word is not found in the New Testament. The term is used loosely to identify persons who practiced some Jewish customs and observed some Jewish laws.

This is a complex subject. Writers have distinguished three groups among Judaizers:

• Jewish Christians
• Gentile Judaizing Christians
• God-fearers

The Jewish Christians were Jews who believed in Jesus, yet continued to observe Jewish law.

 

[Sketch]

Let me change my words to clarify, grace is the divine influence of God in the heart of the believer that provides the source to break the bondage of sin. So the victorious Christian life is not about surviving harm but breaking the bondage of sin.

This is why Paul tells us we are under grace.

Capisci?

You are the only one I know that defines grace that way.

 

[Lillywolf]

They said the Law was given to the Jews and not the Gentiles. That’s antinomianism at its finest.

"By raising segregation and racial persecution to the ethical level of law, it puts into practice the antinomian rules of Orwell's world. Evil becomes good, inhumanity is interpreted as charity, egoism as compassion” ( Elie Wiesel).

 

[Sketch]

Romans 5:18-21
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

It doesn't expressly say 'obedience to the law' but I think we can agree that the Lords Obedience also includes obedience to the Spiritual Law. Because if He broke that law he couldn't be considered completely obedient. Right?

You are changing horses midstream.
Now you are talking about "the Spiritual Law", which you need to define.

Up to this pioint we were taking about "the law". Which I define as
the law God gave to the Israelites alone through Moses.

 

[Lillywolf]

How do you reconcile what you have just said with scripture??

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The Lord didn't say He came to fulfill some of the law. He said He came to fulfill ALL of it. And not one jot or tittle would pass from that Law until ALL is fulfilled.

I sometimes wonder if people know they are contradicting Christ...

The divisiveness is impossible to miss isn't it?

 

[Sketch]

Ignorant antinomianism.

How does a Sabbatarian define "set aside"?

To me, "set aside" means inactive, or not in effect, cancelled, void, nonapplicable.
Why would you call that ignorant?