No Eternal Security = No Salvation?

[Jackson123]

Let read from verse 16

1. This topic about Christ sacrifice to replace animal sacrifice because animal blood can't forgive sin

2. This letter is also say that God put law is in our heart and our mind.

3. Verse 17 say God Will forgive our sin because that is His blood for

4. Verse 18 to 25 tell us the result of verse 16, because God put law in our heart, than we Will bring ourself close to God (verse 22 draw near God with sincer heart) to me It mean the law that God put in our heart Will couse us to seriouslly longing to close to Him. People that murder every day not sincere worship God and not go to heaven.

5. Verse 26.

To me verse 26 say, after God put the law in to our heart and we still murder and robbing the bank every day, then No more sacrifice can forgive our sin anymore.

If we deliberatelly keep oN sining

After we recieve the knowledge of the truth ~ after God put the law into our heart


Hebrews 10

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[c]
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
A Call to Persevere in Faith
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to Godwith a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

To me deliberately keep oN sining in verse 26 mean

Let say murderer for money, a person that rob and kill the victim, after accept Jesus longing to repent and Find a regular job for living, not murder for living. And God Will forgive his sin. But for some reason he can't Find a job and murder again than he fell guilty and ask forgive

I believe God Will forgive him


But If a person murder Anda rob for living and after accepting Jesus never think about Find a job, never SP play for a job and keep oN robbing the bank, that consider deliberately keep oN sining

 

[preston39]

I don't think he is saying Calvinism or OSAS was banned; I think he is saying the approach was banned: that is - discussing and asking if someone who doesn't believe in a doctrine is not saved simply because they do not believe in a doctrine.

C...,
Doctrine......really...?

Why doctrine?...The Bible requires baptism....not a doctrine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let read from verse 16

1. This topic about Christ sacrifice to replace animal sacrifice because animal blood can't forgive sin

2. This letter is also say that God put law is in our heart and our mind.

3. Verse 17 say God Will forgive our sin because that is His blood for

4. Verse 18 to 25 tell us the result of verse 16, because God put law in our heart, than we Will bring ourself close to God (verse 22 draw near God with sincer heart) to me It mean the law that God put in our heart Will couse us to seriouslly longing to close to Him. People that murder every day not sincere worship God and not go to heaven.

5. Verse 26.

To me verse 26 say, after God put the law in to our heart and we still murder and robbing the bank every day, then No more sacrifice can forgive our sin anymore.

If we deliberatelly keep oN sining

After we recieve the knowledge of the truth ~ after God put the law into our heart


Hebrews 10

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[c]
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
A Call to Persevere in Faith
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to Godwith a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

You still have context messed up.

What is the book of hebrews, and namely chapter 10 written about. What was the warning?

Even in this passage. He is talking about being faithfull to the knowledge of truth, because God is faithful

What is the truth they are warned to hold fast too. And what is the lie they are warned about returning to?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To me deliberately keep oN sining in verse 26 mean

Let say murderer for money, a person that rob and kill the victim, after accept Jesus longing to repent and Find a regular job for living, not murder for living. And God Will forgive his sin. But for some reason he can't Find a job and murder again than he fell guilty and ask forgive

I believe God Will forgive him


But If a person murder Anda rob for living and after accepting Jesus never think about Find a job, never SP play for a job and keep oN robbing the bank, that consider deliberately keep oN sining

I think you are focused on personal sins, Where the author of hebrews is talking about one particular sin.

 

[Jackson123]

To me deliberately keep oN sining in verse 26 mean

Let say murderer for money, a person that rob and kill the victim, after accept Jesus longing to repent and Find a regular job for living, not murder for living. And God Will forgive his sin. But for some reason he can't Find a job and murder again than he fell guilty and ask forgive

I believe God Will forgive him


But If a person murder Anda rob for living and after accepting Jesus never think about Find a job, never SP play for a job and keep oN robbing the bank, that consider deliberately keep oN sining

Sorry A Lot of miss spelling becauseer of auto correction

Let me re do

If a person doing murder for living, and after accepting Jesus, never think about Find a better job, and stop murder to me It is consider deliberately sin

 

[Jackson123]

You still have context messed up.

What is the book of hebrews, and namely chapter 10 written about. What was the warning?

Even in this passage. He is talking about being faithfull to the knowledge of truth, because God is faithful

What is the truth they are warned to hold fast too. And what is the lie they are warned about returning to?

It is WARNING

Verse 26 is WARNING

WARNING about what?

WARNING about No forgiveness for deliberately sin

 

[Jackson123]

I think you are focused on personal sins, Where the author of hebrews is talking about one particular sin.

Show me what the different about personal sin and particular sin

Tell me why you believe It is about particular sin, what verse say It is about particular sini

 

[garee]

I think you are focused on personal sins, Where the author of hebrews is talking about one particular sin.

I would think because anything that is not of the faith of Christ (coming from) is personal against the author and perfecter of our new born again faith.

I think it would be more of the direction of faith and who it comes from by which we can believe in him not seen and not our new born again faith towards God . The faith of Christ coming from Christ toward us is not of us toward Him (repentance from dead works,) .

The faith we have towards is not the same . One is needed every time a person sins as crucifying Christ over and over, while the other says one demonstration is all that is required.

Hebrews 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV)Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Better things accompany salvation, real redemption . He promises he will not forget the good works we offer toward His name . If he has begun the good works in us as a imputed righteousness he is our confidence assuring us he will finish it till the end.

Philipians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you "will perform it" until the day of Jesus
Christ:

Romans 3 informs us .What if some believe not ( no faith) will it make the faith of God that works in us with us to both will and do His good pleasure without effect. To effect something is to work it out . Faith of gift is a work not of our own selves.

 

[CS1]

I believe defending teh salvation of believers being forever quite edifying. But that said, brother, I am having a difficult time deciphering what you are saying above which I underlined. Could you explain this? It just doesn't make sense brother.

it would help if you posted the full statement :


It is an argument amongst those who profess to be saved already.

Let that sink in. It is not edifying, nor comforting, and NOT ONE GREAT move of God from an Evangelist from the Day of Pentecost when Peter preached; Paul, and others over the years. Not even John Calvin, John Wesley, Whitefield, Spurgeon, Moody, Finney, Billy Graham, and many others. This topic is one of pride and division masked as sincere biblical question. I am not saying that is your motive but that is the normal context to the topic.

the OSAS is only talked about those who are already saved. If you look at the thread you will see those here who attack and name calling and suggest one is unbiblical because they do or do not hold to OSAS.

when I mentioned the men of God who did great things for the Lord, OSAS was never the main message, salvation was. NONE of them preached to the loss OSAS. The OSAS is greatly debated and it is a topic that gets no one saved. Nor was it the driving message of all great preachers or evangelist. that's all.

 

[preacher4truth]

it would help if you posted the full statement :


It is an argument amongst those who profess to be saved already.

Let that sink in. It is not edifying, nor comforting, and NOT ONE GREAT move of God from an Evangelist from the Day of Pentecost when Peter preached; Paul, and others over the years. Not even John Calvin, John Wesley, Whitefield, Spurgeon, Moody, Finney, Billy Graham, and many others. This topic is one of pride and division masked as sincere biblical question. I am not saying that is your motive but that is the normal context to the topic.

the OSAS is only talked about those who are already saved. If you look at the thread you will see those here who attack and name calling and suggest one is unbiblical because they do or do not hold to OSAS.

when I mentioned the men of God who did great things for the Lord, OSAS was never the main message, salvation was. NONE of them preached to the loss OSAS. The OSAS is greatly debated and it is a topic that gets no one saved. Nor was it the driving message of all great preachers or evangelist. that's all.

I quoted the whole thing and it still doesn't make sense. Did you read what you typed? Read it again, it's garbled and impossible to decipher.

Your explanation helped.

That said your argument is non sequitur. Of course they didn't preach osas or loss of salvation, these are topics believers discuss theologically. This is a given, and a poor example, it is apples and oranges. Did they argue tongues when they held revivals? Of course not. See how pointless that is?

Another thing, one side is unbiblical, not sure why you take issue with that fact as they are not both correct.

Of course some of us fight over tongues perpetually, calling one side or the other unbiblical to ad nauseum, right? Edifying? Name calling? Incendiary? Prideful? Divisive? I'm not going to sit here and accuse those debating this tongues issue as prideful and causing division and take a swipe like that at those involved. Or should I? If we're going to be consistent then it's just as true there.

 

[trofimus]

when I mentioned the men of God who did great things for the Lord, OSAS was never the main message, salvation was. NONE of them preached to the loss OSAS. The OSAS is greatly debated and it is a topic that gets no one saved. Nor was it the driving message of all great preachers or evangelist. that's all.

But we are not preaching here, we are discussing various topics. This is not a seminary about "how to preach the most effectively in one sentence" or something like that.

I am also bored by never ending threads about Law, Sabbath, works vs grace, prosperity etc. OSAS is at least a very comforting topic and useful for daily life. Its not "you must keep this, you must believe that", but just "be peaceful, you will be faithful to the end".

 

[breno785au]

I'm somewhat ashamed of this, but I'm not worried about others may think (people have always had opinions but now with the internet we hear them all at the same time) but I'm abit of a wanderer. I do wander from God's presence at times, then I really miss Him and come back and always find He is there, always ready. Is this a living example of osas? (what ever that Christian lingo is).
Certainly not the kind of relationship I encourage anyone to persue but I learn through it, but then perhaps I forget and relearn. I've found that God is patient, not because I've read it, but because I experience it.
I remember years ago reading a short book, like a biography about a Christian man in the 1800's who had the same way as me, though he fell to much deeper holes with drunkenness and He wrote about the exact same thing and there came a point where something broke. Not saying I'm waiting for something to break, I know God and myself have a lot to work on.

I don't know if I'm an advocate of osas, I'm a fence sitter on most of these topics but I'm wondering if this is a living example of it or whatever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is WARNING

Verse 26 is WARNING

WARNING about what?

WARNING about No forgiveness for deliberately sin

Yes it is a warning

No it is not a warning about sinning, Yourself out of salvation.

If deliberate sin can not be forgiven, Not one person will end up in heaven.

Again, What is the context of Hebrews, why was it written?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Show me what the different about personal sin and particular sin

Tell me why you believe It is about particular sin, what verse say It is about particular sini

Because the context of Hebrews is not about personal sin, It is about the major tribulation the jews who had come to christ were suffering beause they rejected the religion of their fathers, and chose to follow CHrist.

Beause much of the warnings in hebrews is about not standing firm in the Gospel, But returning to law. Which is why the author said to hold fast. Do not fraw back.

He also said in Heb 10: 39 that WE (those who are saved) ARE NOT THE ONES who FALL BACK. But the ones who believe to the saving.

If we are those who are saved, and they are not.. Then

1. What sacrifice is he refering to
2. What sin is he refering to?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm somewhat ashamed of this, but I'm not worried about others may think (people have always had opinions but now with the internet we hear them all at the same time) but I'm abit of a wanderer. I do wander from God's presence at times, then I really miss Him and come back and always find He is there, always ready. Is this a living example of osas? (what ever that Christian lingo is).
Certainly not the kind of relationship I encourage anyone to persue but I learn through it, but then perhaps I forget and relearn. I've found that God is patient, not because I've read it, but because I experience it.
I remember years ago reading a short book, like a biography about a Christian man in the 1800's who had the same way as me, though he fell to much deeper holes with drunkenness and He wrote about the exact same thing and there came a point where something broke. Not saying I'm waiting for something to break, I know God and myself have a lot to work on.

I don't know if I'm an advocate of osas, I'm a fence sitter on most of these topics but I'm wondering if this is a living example of it or whatever.

I think it is sad we have to resort to terms or names to explain biblical truths.

As I have said before. I wish we would just tak bible. Not OSAS or al these religious terms, i wonder if there would be less infighting.

 

[mailmandan]

C...,
Doctrine......really...?

Why doctrine?...The Bible requires baptism....not a doctrine.

Then why don't you show us where the Bible states that whoever is not baptized will be condemned? John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then why don't you show us where the Bible states that whoever is not baptized will be condemned? John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This thread is not about water baptism, Why do people keep trying to hijack threads by not talking about what the Op was desirinig?

 

[preston39]

Then why don't you show us where the Bible states that whoever is not baptized will be condemned? John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

m....,
I have numerous times....you refuse to accept clear biblical language which is validated by other biblical language.

Further, you fail to respond to the point that such ...no baptism necessary belief...... has no record in the christian community/teachings prior to the 1960's era.............why?

Here is the .....baptism is required...... language....again;

John 3:5....Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I Peter 3:21...The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Many more.

 

[CS1]

I quoted the whole thing and it still doesn't make sense. Did you read what you typed? Read it again, it's garbled and impossible to decipher.

Your explanation helped.

That said your argument is non sequitur. Of course they didn't preach osas or loss of salvation, these are topics believers discuss theologically. This is a given, and a poor example, it is apples and oranges. Did they argue tongues when they held revivals? Of course not. See how pointless that is?

Another thing, one side is unbiblical, not sure why you take issue with that fact as they are not both correct.

Of course some of us fight over tongues perpetually, calling one side or the other unbiblical to ad nauseum, right? Edifying? Name calling? Incendiary? Prideful? Divisive? I'm not going to sit here and accuse those debating this tongues issue as prideful and causing division and take a swipe like that at those involved. Or should I? If we're going to be consistent then it's just as true there.

To you it is pointless are trying to confrontational? Tongues are not essential for salvation Unlike those of OSAS debate they hold that as essential to accept or you are not saved or you are not Biblical, which was stated by some and in this threads and past ones. Yet you can say the argument of tongues is prideful and causing division and you would be right too. So what is your point now? So you want to attack my thought of preaching the word of God for salvation as important? I'm I wrong that those who argue for or against OSAS are already saved? Why is my point meaningless yet your is not? How is that my point is unlogical ( sequitur) because you say it is? Let me put more context for you. IN CC thread posting the topic of OSAS has always become insulting and argumentive the same as tongues. which leads to non-edifying discussion. SO I will propose a remedy Both OSAS & tongues topic be banned from CC. I can ensure you I have far more points of meaning to support that then you do in keeping either topic in CC. you with me?

 

[CS1]

But we are not preaching here, we are discussing various topics. This is not a seminary about "how to preach the most effectively in one sentence" or something like that.

I am also bored by never ending threads about Law, Sabbath, works vs grace, prosperity etc. OSAS is at least a very comforting topic and useful for daily life. Its not "you must keep this, you must believe that", but just "be peaceful, you will be faithful to the end".

I just proposed a remedy for it. In my last thread