Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine
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So the Holy Spirit leaves when we deny God, then we can repent and get the Spirit again. See this is what I was going on about.
Btw to answer your question I bolded: Yes there is kinda: Here it is:
2 Timothy 2:12-13
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Btw to answer your question I bolded: Yes there is kinda: Here it is:
2 Timothy 2:12-13
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
The passage has nothing to do with losing salvation, it means departing from the doctrine, the teaching, thus "the faith" not lost "their" faith or salvation&c as you erroneously conclude.
And it's not in 1 Timothy 4:13. 1 Timothy 4:1? Yes.
Even others Catholics like you (Trent Horn for example) know this FranC.
And it's not in 1 Timothy 4:13. 1 Timothy 4:1? Yes.
Even others Catholics like you (Trent Horn for example) know this FranC.
Too tired and must sign off.
BUT...read that scripture again. It contradicts itself.
The bible doesn't contradict itself...So what's the answer?
In verse 12 He is denying US
In verse 13 He cannot deny HIMSELF.
What does this mean?
If you don't look it up,,,I'll respond tomorrow...
(God can deny us, but can He deny Himself? Is He a liar?)
BUT...read that scripture again. It contradicts itself.
The bible doesn't contradict itself...So what's the answer?
In verse 12 He is denying US
In verse 13 He cannot deny HIMSELF.
What does this mean?
If you don't look it up,,,I'll respond tomorrow...
(God can deny us, but can He deny Himself? Is He a liar?)
1 Timothy 4:1 about falling away from the faith.
Thanks for the correction.
So faith and doctrine is the same???
Whateva.
And I don't conclude anything erroneously...
most churches, Catholic and Protestant do NOT believe in eternal security.
I don't know who Trent Horn is and I really don't care to know.
I'm not catholic. Take it or leave it.
Thanks for the correction.
So faith and doctrine is the same???
Whateva.
And I don't conclude anything erroneously...
most churches, Catholic and Protestant do NOT believe in eternal security.
I don't know who Trent Horn is and I really don't care to know.
I'm not catholic. Take it or leave it.
Quantril, this would be double jeopardy. How can you ask God to forgive you for that which He has already remitted? As Hebrews says, "where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." There is no forgiveness outside of the blood of Christ. It is the only means by which remission/forgiveness is truly granted through faith (without the shedding of blood, there is no remission).
What you're teaching is known as "parental forgiveness" and it implies that the Lord holds our sins against us. At one point in time I was committing a sin and one day the Lord spoke to me (of that sin) and said, "I hold not these sins against you." I didn't ask for forgiveness, didn't confess my sin for forgiveness or anything of the sort. He wanted to let me know that He has forgiven me. That I stand redeemed and reconciled before Him, based upon His Son.
If we say that we must ask God to forgive us any sin, then Christ would have to go back on to the cross. That He will not do. There is no more offering for sin. He became the sacrifice, rose from the dead, and now sits on the Father's right hand. He has an eternal priesthood, whereby He is the mediator between God and man. His blood is sufficient for sin (all sin that could ever exist). This is why He did ONE sacrifice, and thats it. If it wasn't sufficient for all sin scripture teaches (in Hebrews) that He would have to suffer since the foundation of the world (being that He is the sacrifice for sin). However, praise God, His blood isn't common, it isn't like the blood of bulls and goats incapable of taking away sin, but has granted us remission (forever).
In respect to fellowship, sin is a hindrance upon our destiny. We do need to repent, yes, the Lord will address the elephant in the room if you're committing sin. He desires better for us. It is His process of sanctification, and He will continue to sanctify you. Yet, do not think for a moment that you're condemned in any respect. He remembers our sins no more, in that He doesn't hold them against us. He has made this a part of the new covenant. Its in the fine details! Is is gracious of Him, founded in the providence of Christ's sacrifice.
What you're teaching is known as "parental forgiveness" and it implies that the Lord holds our sins against us. At one point in time I was committing a sin and one day the Lord spoke to me (of that sin) and said, "I hold not these sins against you." I didn't ask for forgiveness, didn't confess my sin for forgiveness or anything of the sort. He wanted to let me know that He has forgiven me. That I stand redeemed and reconciled before Him, based upon His Son.
If we say that we must ask God to forgive us any sin, then Christ would have to go back on to the cross. That He will not do. There is no more offering for sin. He became the sacrifice, rose from the dead, and now sits on the Father's right hand. He has an eternal priesthood, whereby He is the mediator between God and man. His blood is sufficient for sin (all sin that could ever exist). This is why He did ONE sacrifice, and thats it. If it wasn't sufficient for all sin scripture teaches (in Hebrews) that He would have to suffer since the foundation of the world (being that He is the sacrifice for sin). However, praise God, His blood isn't common, it isn't like the blood of bulls and goats incapable of taking away sin, but has granted us remission (forever).
In respect to fellowship, sin is a hindrance upon our destiny. We do need to repent, yes, the Lord will address the elephant in the room if you're committing sin. He desires better for us. It is His process of sanctification, and He will continue to sanctify you. Yet, do not think for a moment that you're condemned in any respect. He remembers our sins no more, in that He doesn't hold them against us. He has made this a part of the new covenant. Its in the fine details! Is is gracious of Him, founded in the providence of Christ's sacrifice.
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I know many who have left the church.
I know some who left, but still believes in christ, they just lost faiht inthe church. Am I going to judge them as unsaved?
I myself was a prodigal child. Did I lose my salvation for those 5 years?
I even know a few who have left And now deny christ, And I wouldl never say They were ever saved, to do so, I would have to say John lied, Because john tells me they were not.
I can not go against johns words. To do so would be going against scripture.
I know some who left, but still believes in christ, they just lost faiht inthe church. Am I going to judge them as unsaved?
I myself was a prodigal child. Did I lose my salvation for those 5 years?
I even know a few who have left And now deny christ, And I wouldl never say They were ever saved, to do so, I would have to say John lied, Because john tells me they were not.
I can not go against johns words. To do so would be going against scripture.
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Love has no bearing on the current convo....it is a process of growth and maturity AFTER one has been saved/born again from above...
let me ask you...You were born Fran right....can ANYTHING you DO ever CHANGE the fact of who you were born as? NO nothing....
We are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED..what does INCURRUPTIBLE SEED MEAN?
We are born from ABOVE by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD
One born of GOD DOES NOT SIN according to JOHN
How can ETERNAL and EVERLASTING as applied unto LIFE/SALVATION be TEMPORARY?
AND if the SPIRIT born of GOD does NOT SIN how can it LOSE salvation? <---A LACK of faith is SIN, if it is NOT of faith it is SIN
SO this is what you would have us believe...a SPIRIT, born of GOD, from ABOVE, that DOES NOT SIN and is GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE BY FAITH can INDEED SIN, FALTER, BE UNBORN from ABOVE and LOSE that which is called ETERNAL by GOD.....
Sorry...that does not jive with scripture!
let me ask you...You were born Fran right....can ANYTHING you DO ever CHANGE the fact of who you were born as? NO nothing....
We are born of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED..what does INCURRUPTIBLE SEED MEAN?
We are born from ABOVE by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD
One born of GOD DOES NOT SIN according to JOHN
How can ETERNAL and EVERLASTING as applied unto LIFE/SALVATION be TEMPORARY?
AND if the SPIRIT born of GOD does NOT SIN how can it LOSE salvation? <---A LACK of faith is SIN, if it is NOT of faith it is SIN
SO this is what you would have us believe...a SPIRIT, born of GOD, from ABOVE, that DOES NOT SIN and is GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE BY FAITH can INDEED SIN, FALTER, BE UNBORN from ABOVE and LOSE that which is called ETERNAL by GOD.....
Sorry...that does not jive with scripture!
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Actually, I do believe in a once saved always saved scenario.
But that is based upon first I accepted Christ as my Savior, secondly If I sin I know God is faithful to forgive me, thirdly I know God will always keep His promise so it is up to me to continue believing in Him and allowing my faith in Him to grow, fourth and lastly I believe to grow closer to God is to become someone who denies himself for the purpose and goal of God (which includes working on sinning less).
I just do not buy if I sin and then DON'T have it covered under the BLOOD, God is cool with me assuming He will fix it. I believe one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit inside us that connects us to God, is to keep us aware when we are sinful, so we can have it put under the BLOOD. When I sin I do have this guilty feeling because I know light and darkness do not mesh. Plus, I know the guilty feeling is from the Holy Spirit because it's the same way the guilt hit me when I did decide to be saved in the first place. And, since I know the Holy Spirit is God, I know God is pure and I want my life to be as pure as possible since God dwells within me.
I just do not buy the if I sin it's ok because God knows everything and knows I am His. There are no scriptures specific to that situation. So to me, that was someone's opinion and many people have bought into it....not me though!!
BY YOUR WORDS SHALT thou be JUDGED JESUS said......PETER denied the LORD 3 times and EVEN cussed in the process....did he lose salvation?.....TELL US or point us to where he LOST salvation and then REGAINED IT....OOOOOPSSSS you guys teach that it cannot be regained per Hebrews out of context....
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So in otheer words, You do not believe in eternal secruity.
Does yoru father kick you out of his family (or do you kick your kids out) when he says do not take a cookee. And you did (or something like this) and you did not think you did anything wrong?
Why do you hold God to a lower standard. That sad.
Does yoru father kick you out of his family (or do you kick your kids out) when he says do not take a cookee. And you did (or something like this) and you did not think you did anything wrong?
Why do you hold God to a lower standard. That sad.
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Why do you think Peter wept so bitterly as Luke indicates?
Because he had done Christ wrong. The scripture does not have to indicate Peter sought forgiveness, his sorrow and weeping bitterly is obvious he repented.
I have been sorrowful for things I have done that it caused me to weep like I assume Peter did. And during my time of weeping, I was very sorry for what I had done. To me, this by Peter is not only acknowledging he knew he did wrong, but weeping as he did, he clearly was sorry. That is as clear as it gets to repenting.
If Peter knew he was forgiven, there would be no need to cry in sorrow like he did. He clearly repented!!