Speaking in tongues

[Noose]

When i say the tongues being spoken today are fake, i'm not guessing.

Q1. Did women in the 1st century church speak in tongues?
Q2. Do women in today's church speak in tongues?

1 Cor 14:
34Women f should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. g

36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

1 Tim 2:11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Eph 5:22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Q3. When did all these change?

 

[BibleloverBill]

I spoke with a pastor/theologian who is in Germany a few nights ago who had heard a man who does not know English speak in tongues in KJV English.

I spoke with a pastor's wife, daughter of a missionary who had heard a old Chinese woman villager speak in tongues in English.

The teachings of I Corinthians 14 for tongues and interpretation apply no mayter what language is spoken.

Many years ago, I heard of a USA GARB Baptist missionary in Africa pick-up an African hitchhiker who didn't speak English. He found himself speaking a strange language. Later on in a coffee house, he heard someone say to a group in English that he had spoken the Gospel in the African language there. I also heard of a couple who were ministering in a worship in a South American church and they found themselves speaking and singing in the native language even though they never studied the language.

 

[garee]

I'm trying to decipher your meaning. I suspect you have a problem with Paul's teaching that tongues and interpretation edify the church.

I have no problem with the teaching of the Holy Spirit (not Paul teaching) but one moved by God to bring the teaching of God. Never do the two become one master. This is except in Catholicism they say they can serve two masters. The eternal things of God and those of men the temporal seen.

God brining His interpretation in all the language's(tongues) of the world, edified Christ. He builds us up as His eternal bride. No self righteous edification of oneself (false pride) Before Acts he only used the Hebrew tongue.

Tongues, God mocking the unbelieving Jew is a sign against them who mocked God by refusing to hear what he says so they rather do whatsoever their own mouths declare as oral tradition of the father and Kings

I have a question for you. If the apostles prayed for God to do signs and wonders, does that prove that everyone who prays for God to do signs and wonders is an apostle? If not, why would a verse about a wicked and adulterous generation seeking a sign be proof that all who asks for signs are evil and adulterous? Jesus did not accuse the apostles of being evil or adulterous when they asked for a sign in Matthew 24.

The word apostles has lost its meaning to be used properly.

I think there is a big difference between a sign (singular) ..... and sign and wonders or a sign, that causes a wonderment or amazement pointing to that not seen (the faith principle). It is an evil generation natural uncoverted man (no faith) that looks for a sign before they will believe (exercise faith) it what the unbelieving Jews did made Jesus into a circus seal. Do a trick we can see and then we will believe.

Makes me wonder when he does come as a thief in the night will he find faith or those looking for as sign that causes a wonder?

Christ who will come in Spirit just as in the days of Noah will come as a thief in the night .Noah like us are given the privilege as watchers but Christ will still come as a thief in the night. The unbelievers not expecting. Christ never revealed their request as to what sign but gave the "sign of the times" which in the end just reflects the same as that revealed in Genesis 6

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.Genesis 6

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Mathew 24

Again he never answered their request to a specific time of the end of the word... Just generalities .We walk by faith not after signs.

 

[BibleloverBill]

I was not accusing you of intentionally lying. I believe you are mistaken. I would not be surprised if there are a few exceptions to the rule, but I know of no congregation that calls itself congregation that teaches you aren't saved unless you speak in tongues or any Pentecostals who teach that that are not non-trinitarian, which is very much the minority.

It is not just a few. In the past I have checked the Statements of Faith in all of the churches I attended.

 

[BibleloverBill]

I have no problem with the teaching of the Holy Spirit (not Paul teaching) but one moved by God to bring the teaching of God. Never do the two become one master. This is except in Catholicism they say they can serve two masters. The eternal things of God and those of men the temporal seen.

God brining His interpretation in all the language's(tongues) of the world, edified Christ. He builds us up as His eternal bride. No self righteous edification of oneself (false pride) Before Acts he only used the Hebrew tongue.

Tongues, God mocking the unbelieving Jew is a sign against them who mocked God by refusing to hear what he says so they rather do whatsoever their own mouths declare as oral tradition of the father and Kings



The word apostles has lost its meaning to be used properly.

I think there is a big difference between a sign (singular) ..... and sign and wonders or a sign, that causes a wonderment or amazement pointing to that not seen (the faith principle). It is an evil generation natural uncoverted man (no faith) that looks for a sign before they will believe (exercise faith) it what the unbelieving Jews did made Jesus into a circus seal. Do a trick we can see and then we will believe.

Makes me wonder when he does come as a thief in the night will he find faith or those looking for as sign that causes a wonder?

Christ who will come in Spirit just as in the days of Noah will come as a thief in the night .Noah like us are given the privilege as watchers but Christ will still come as a thief in the night. The unbelievers not expecting. Christ never revealed their request as to what sign but gave the "sign of the times" which in the end just reflects the same as that revealed in Genesis 6

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.Genesis 6

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Mathew 24

Again he never answered their request to a specific time of the end of the word... Just generalities .We walk by faith not after signs.

***"Christ who will come in Spirit just as in the days of Noah"? Where is that in Scripture? Revelation doesn't say that when Jesus Christ comes on a white horse. And Jesus Christ was not silent in Matthew 24 about the signs of the End Times.

Why are you against Apostle Paul's doctrines?

Why do you say that Catholics serve 2 masters? Because of the Pope? Most Protestants serve their local pastors much more than they serve God or Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit.

Where is this indicated in Scripture?
"

Tongues, God mocking the unbelieving Jew is a sign against them who mocked God by refusing to hear what he says so they rather do whatsoever their own mouths declare as oral tradition of the father and Kings "

 

[garee]

That isn't supported in Scripture. Discernment, words of wisdom and knowledge, healing, faith, and speaking in tongues can all be given in ways that directly touch only one person.

I would think of course it was the faith of Christ unsen that mutually worked in both receivers of the spiritual gify of hearing God not seen. It was not after the imganation of each others heart as a guess to what they think God might say.

For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith(Christ's) both of you and me. Roman1:11-12

The signs confirms something?

No outward sign needed to believe prophecy (God's word) We walk by Christ's faith the eternal not seen. It works in us and not of us.

It touches those who believe or those given the faith of God that works in us to both will and do his good pleasure as two walking together by the mutual faith of one, Christ.

Peter given the word of God as a spiritual gift of God was moved by God and those who heard the interpretation of God as spiritual gift of God in their own language(tongue) They because of the mutual gift (not of Peter)…... believed unto the salvation of their souls.

There was none running around looking for the witness of men saying what did the noise mean? as if we were to trust the private interpretation of men

Tongues, God mocking those who mocked him refusing to hear prophecy spoke in other languages other than Hebrew it was a sign against them .It confirmed something .It was not a blank sign... you fill it in with the imaginations of ones own heart just make a noise .

The law of God is not subject to change.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues (many understandable languages) are for a sign, "not to them that believe"(prophecy) , but to "them" that believe notno faith) but prophesying (many understandable languages)serveth not for "them" that believe not (prophecy) , but for them which believe.1Corinthians 14: 21-22

 

[Dino246]

When i say the tongues being spoken today are fake, i'm not guessing.

Q1. Did women in the 1st century church speak in tongues?
Q2. Do women in today's church speak in tongues?

1 Cor 14:
34Women f should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. g

36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

1 Tim 2:11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Eph 5:22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Q3. When did all these change?

Well... No danger of sound exegesis here.

 

[Dino246]

I would think of course it was the faith of Christ unsen that mutually worked in both receivers of the spiritual gify of hearing God not seen. It was not after the imganation of each others heart as a guess to what they think God might say.

For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith(Christ's) both of you and me. Roman1:11-12

The signs confirms something?

No outward sign needed to believe prophecy (God's word) We walk by Christ's faith the eternal not seen. It works in us and not of us.

It touches those who believe or those given the faith of God that works in us to both will and do his good pleasure as two walking together by the mutual faith of one, Christ.

Peter given the word of God as a spiritual gift of God was moved by God and those who heard the interpretation of God as spiritual gift of God in their own language(tongue) They because of the mutual gift (not of Peter)…... believed unto the salvation of their souls.

There was none running around looking for the witness of men saying what did the noise mean? as if we were to trust the private interpretation of men

Tongues, God mocking those who mocked him refusing to hear prophecy spoke in other languages other than Hebrew it was a sign against them .It confirmed something .It was not a blank sign... you fill it in with the imaginations of ones own heart just make a noise .

The law of God is not subject to change.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues (many understandable languages) are for a sign, "not to them that believe"(prophecy) , but to "them" that believe notno faith) but prophesying (many understandable languages)serveth not for "them" that believe not (prophecy) , but for them which believe.1Corinthians 14: 21-22

Will the convolutions ever end?

 

[garee]

Christ who will come in Spirit just as in the days of Noah"? Where is that in Scripture? Revelation doesn't say that when Jesus Christ comes on a white horse. And Jesus Christ was not silent in Matthew 24 about the signs of the End Times.

Yes white horse used as a metaphor revealed in that parable. The one time demonstration of the flesh is over we no longer know Christ after the flesh of men .God is not a man as us never could be .The new god would have a beginning. God is supernatural without a beginning .(no natures)

Why are you against Apostle Paul's doctrines?

I am not against the doctrines of God . Why would you attribute them to one sent?

Why do you say that Catholics serve 2 masters? Because of the Pope? Most Protestants serve their local pastors much more than they serve God or Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit.

I am not saying the Pope alone .He as the poster child simply does it openly proudly as the kind of pride that came before the fall.

I will ascend to the clouds I will be like God

The law of the catholic father that they must call a "apostolical succession" as it is written..# 80.. making the written witness of God sola scriptura) without effect.

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRADITION AND SACRED SCRIPTURE

One common source. . .

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".41

Where is this indicated in Scripture?
"

Tongues, God mocking the unbelieving Jew is a sign against them who mocked God by refusing to hear what he says so they rather do whatsoever their own mouths declare as oral tradition of the father and Kings "

We look to the foundation of the doctrine.If the foundations are destoyed what could a believer do?

For with stammering lips (mocking deriding) and another tongue (languages that people understand) will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they (this people.) would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Wherefore hear the word of the Lord,(prophecy) ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28:11-14

This same people below..bolded in black the ones who saw no evil in making the word of God without effect by the oral traditions of the fathers. same that with their own mouth install there very own queen in heaven

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.

But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

 

[garee]

Will the convolutions ever end?

LOL Will you ever believe?

What does the sign confirm?

 

[Dino246]

LOL Will you ever believe?

What does the sign confirm?

Believe what you believe? No. It's much too inconsistent with Scripture, and waaaay too convoluted.

The sign? Exactly what Scripture says it confirms. Oh... it doesn't? Well then....

 

[kohelet]

Since spiritual gifts are not *acquired* but given by the Holy Spirit according to His will, don't bother.

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. (1 Cor 12:11).

Modern tongues are called "prayer language", and are not actual existing languages.

That's true, Nehemiah6, but we are told to "earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that [we] may prophesy." Paul is commanding this and implicit in the instruction is that we should ask for it. Or for tongues, for that matter, which, with interpretation, has the same value (1 Cor. 14:5).

 

[CS1]

When i say the tongues being spoken today are fake, i'm not guessing.

Q1. Did women in the 1st century church speak in tongues?
Q2. Do women in today's church speak in tongues?

1 Cor 14:
34Women f should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. g

36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

1 Tim 2:11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Eph 5:22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Q3. When did all these change?

lol you are guessing.


you did not read 1cor 11: 5 one of the unit chapters to be seen with chapters 12 to 14 did you?

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Were are they praying and prophesying at? The church setting. If you understood the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the word of God in context to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, you would know that Joel 2:28
The Holy Spirit would be poured out on women, why? So they can keep silent in the church. Wrong. If you knew, what prophesying was and that women do so too. You would not be speaking in an unlearned manner.
Women are to be silent yet prophesying and prayer is allowed in the church setting at the appropriate time. That is why 1cor 11:5 is about the church setting.

 

[garee]

Believe what you believe? No. It's much too inconsistent with Scripture, and waaaay too convoluted.

The sign? Exactly what Scripture says it confirms. Oh... it doesn't? Well then....

What does it confirm consistently with scripture?

 

[Dino246]

What does it confirm consistently with scripture?

Garee, I'm tired of your circular reasoning and repeated errors. I'm not going to continue this discussion when I see no movement on your part toward correct understanding.

 

[garee]

When i say the tongues being spoken today are fake, i'm not guessing.

Q1. Did women in the 1st century church speak in tongues?
Q2. Do women in today's church speak in tongues?

1 Cor 14:
34Women f should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. g

36Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

1 Tim 2:11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Eph 5:22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Q3. When did all these change?

I would not use the Ephesian portion of scripture that would seem to support another doctrine that came at the time of reformation.

I would not go so far to say they are fake. They are actual sounds a person is really hoping will come out. But what do they confirm is the question I believe?

 

[garee]

Garee, I'm tired of your circular reasoning and repeated errors. I'm not going to continue this discussion when I see no movement on your part toward correct understanding.

Still waiting. What does the sign confirm? What does your circular reasoning confirm? Error or truth?

 

[BibleloverBill]

I would think of course it was the faith of Christ unsen that mutually worked in both receivers of the spiritual gify of hearing God not seen. It was not after the imganation of each others heart as a guess to what they think God might say.

For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith(Christ's) both of you and me. Roman1:11-12

The signs confirms something?

No outward sign needed to believe prophecy (God's word) We walk by Christ's faith the eternal not seen. It works in us and not of us.

It touches those who believe or those given the faith of God that works in us to both will and do his good pleasure as two walking together by the mutual faith of one, Christ.

Peter given the word of God as a spiritual gift of God was moved by God and those who heard the interpretation of God as spiritual gift of God in their own language(tongue) They because of the mutual gift (not of Peter)…... believed unto the salvation of their souls.

There was none running around looking for the witness of men saying what did the noise mean? as if we were to trust the private interpretation of men

Tongues, God mocking those who mocked him refusing to hear prophecy spoke in other languages other than Hebrew it was a sign against them .It confirmed something .It was not a blank sign... you fill it in with the imaginations of ones own heart just make a noise .

The law of God is not subject to change.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues (many understandable languages) are for a sign, "not to them that believe"(prophecy) , but to "them" that believe notno faith) but prophesying (many understandable languages)serveth not for "them" that believe not (prophecy) , but for them which believe.1Corinthians 14: 21-22

???

What kind of Bible are you studying? Or are your proclamations from sermons you heard or denominational writings? I am not saying all in your postings are untrue, but most of the statements are not according to the Bible and Christian Church history.

 

[BibleloverBill]

I would not use the Ephesian portion of scripture that would seem to support another doctrine that came at the time of reformation.

I would not go so far to say they are fake. They are actual sounds a person is really hoping will come out. But what do they confirm is the question I believe?

What I have experienced in speaking in and singing in tongues was not fake. And that woman who had some of the Words God gave me was not faking either. She is a true Christian a prayer warrior.

 

[Noose]

lol you are guessing.


you did not read 1cor 11: 5 one of the unit chapters to be seen with chapters 12 to 14 did you?

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Were are they praying and prophesying at? The church setting. If you understood the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the word of God in context to the gifts of the Holy Spirit, you would know that Joel 2:28
The Holy Spirit would be poured out on women, why? So they can keep silent in the church. Wrong. If you knew, what prophesying was and that women do so too. You would not be speaking in an unlearned manner.
Women are to be silent yet prophesying and prayer is allowed in the church setting at the appropriate time. That is why 1cor 11:5 is about the church setting.

Nice try but nope.

1. Paul is not merely talking about physical heads in this chapter. Yes he uses the physical things but the lesson is spiritual.
In summary, Paul is talking about the 'head' as in God being the head of Christ and Christ being the head of man and man the head of the woman. A woman exposing her head dishonors the man and a man covering his head dishonors God- for the man was created in the image of God so he needs to expose his head. The image here is not shape and thoughts but simply authority that comes through appointment by God. A woman dishonors the man (husband) when they expose their head publicly. Prayer and prophesy was not the lesson but rather a chosen example of how women should appear publicly.

2. 1 Cor 11 by no means cancels 1 Cor 14 (which was a directive or the Lords command) or 1 Tim 2 (which was a specific teaching of how to conduct ourselves in church). If you think 1 Cor 11 is a teaching of how women should pray or prophesy then we have a problem reconciling with:

1 Cor 14: 34Women f should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.


This means that women did not receive the gifts. And:

1 Tim 2:
8Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

11A woman a should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; b she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women c will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Which is a specific teaching of our conduct in church.

Question still remain, when did all these change?