Does scripture given to Israel apply to saved gentiles?

[Blik]

Romans 11 explains very well the place of Israel in the life of gentile Christians.

Israel in scripture is explained as consisting of the elect of God, the saved. This if ethnic Israel. Scripture sometimes speaks of national Israel, and the Jewish people of that nation are sometimes part of ethnic Israel and sometimes not. It is explained in Romans that God is faithful to His promises to national Israel even when they are unfaithful.

When we accept Christ as our Savior we are adopted into Israel, and all the promises and instructions given to them apply to both Jew and gentile. We are told that in God's eyes there is no difference in people. The Jews were chosen to demonstrate God to all others, and for that they have a special blessing, but as people we are all the same.

 

[p_rehbein]

Is this a back door way into the argument about the Law of Moses applying to Believers today?

Just wondering........

When Christ established Gods Church here on earth, BOTH the believing Jews and Gentiles were adopted into the Promise and upon salvation, became members of His Church. We are not part of the Nation of Israel. Just to be clear.

As it says in Galatians, there is not difference once we come to God through belief in Christ our Lord and Savior.

 

[JaumeJ]

The first Israel is for our understanding that no nation of flesh will ever be the chosen nation for eternity.

The true Israel is the Israel with its capital being the New Jerusalem from our Father.

All who believe are Israel, no matter what the cover may be, that is Israel, which may be said Ruling with God.

All who believe Jesus, Yeshua, are with Him………….Who rules with god. It is yet quite a mystery but faith in what is not yet seen will get all through to believe God on all of this.

 

[OneFaith]

Romans 11 explains very well the place of Israel in the life of gentile Christians.

Israel in scripture is explained as consisting of the elect of God, the saved. This if ethnic Israel. Scripture sometimes speaks of national Israel, and the Jewish people of that nation are sometimes part of ethnic Israel and sometimes not. It is explained in Romans that God is faithful to His promises to national Israel even when they are unfaithful.

When we accept Christ as our Savior we are adopted into Israel, and all the promises and instructions given to them apply to both Jew and gentile. We are told that in God's eyes there is no difference in people. The Jews were chosen to demonstrate God to all others, and for that they have a special blessing, but as people we are all the same.

By 'adopted' you mean added to the vine (Romans chapter 11). Yes Gentiles are grafted into the Vine, and are spiritual Israelites. Physical Israelites are no longer God's people by physical birthright. They lost that right when the Son of God came to His own people, and instead of receiving Him they crucified Him. (John chapter 1). Physical Israelites can be grafted back into their own vine if they get baptized into Christ like everyone else. The only way to be God's people today is to be so spiritually.

"There is no other name given to man by which he must be saved- Jesus Christ." (Not even Moses)

"I AM the Vine, ye are the branches."

 

[Locutus]

Paul writing to the Colossians calls them the elect of God:

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

 

[OneFaith]

Yes all of God's law applies to Gentiles. HOWEVER, we obey it spiritually under Christ, not physically like they did under Moses. So, for example, our circumcision is spiritual circumcision of the heart, not physical circumcision. Our sabbath is not a physical rest on a physical day, it is resting spiritually- which is called 'the peace that surpasses understanding '.

 

[Quantrill]

No, not all of Scripture is to the Church. Many of the promises given to Israel, are Israel's. The Church and Israel are two separate bodies of believers. To confuse them as the same, does just that, creates great confusion.

All of Scripture is for us who are part of the Church at this time. And we can make application of it in our lives because we too are a saved group of people. In other words we learn much that is written in the Law of Moses. But the Church is not under that Law. But we can still learn and apply much of it in our lives.

Quantrill

 

[Blik]

Is this a back door way into the argument about the Law of Moses applying to Believers today?

Just wondering........

When Christ established Gods Church here on earth, BOTH the believing Jews and Gentiles were adopted into the Promise and upon salvation, became members of His Church. We are not part of the Nation of Israel. Just to be clear.

As it says in Galatians, there is not difference once we come to God through belief in Christ our Lord and Savior.

Discussing what scripture tells us is not using any back door. If you have something to say just say it, I hope it is backed by scripture.

I agree, God is a God of gentiles and Jews equally, God is not one God for a Jew with different ways for a gentile. God is eternal, the same always, holy.

 

[JaumeJ]

No, not all of Scripture is to the Church. Many of the promises given to Israel, are Israel's. The Church and Israel are two separate bodies of believers. To confuse them as the same, does just that, creates great confusion.

All of Scripture is for us who are part of the Church at this time. And we can make application of it in our lives because we too are a saved group of people. In other words we learn much that is written in the Law of Moses. But the Church is not under that Law. But we can still learn and apply much of it in our lives.

Quantrill

Reading your post, I now understand you are separate from the Israel of God in your mind. I will pray for you.

 

[Quantrill]

Reading your post, I now understand you are separate from the Israel of God in your mind. I will pray for you.

Your understanding is questionable, but I turn down no prayers.

Quantrill

 

[Blik]

By 'adopted' you mean added to the vine (Romans chapter 11). Yes Gentiles are grafted into the Vine, and are spiritual Israelites. Physical Israelites are no longer God's people by physical birthright. They lost that right when the Son of God came to His own people, and instead of receiving Him they crucified Him. (John chapter 1). Physical Israelites can be grafted back into their own vine if they get baptized into Christ like everyone else. The only way to be God's people today is to be so spiritually.

"There is no other name given to man by which he must be saved- Jesus Christ." (Not even Moses)

"I AM the Vine, ye are the branches."

According to Paul in Romans God is faithful to the Jews. God gave a promise to the Jews and God is faithful with His promises.

No, not all of Scripture is to the Church. Many of the promises given to Israel, are Israel's. The Church and Israel are two separate bodies of believers. To confuse them as the same, does just that, creates great confusion.

All of Scripture is for us who are part of the Church at this time. And we can make application of it in our lives because we too are a saved group of people. In other words we learn much that is written in the Law of Moses. But the Church is not under that Law. But we can still learn and apply much of it in our lives.

Quantrill

Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

According to scripture in Galatians we are Abrahams offspring, spiritually Jews. God is fully our God, just as God is the God of the Jews. Many gentiles today reject the part of God that speaks to us in the OT, but God speaks in both the old and new just as God speaks to the Jew in both the old and new. We reject much of the OT, the Jew rejects the NT. Both are truth.

 

[JaumeJ]

No, not all of Scripture is to the Church. Many of the promises given to Israel, are Israel's. The Church and Israel are two separate bodies of believers. To confuse them as the same, does just that, creates great confusion.

All of Scripture is for us who are part of the Church at this time. And we can make application of it in our lives because we too are a saved group of people. In other words we learn much that is written in the Law of Moses. But the Church is not under that Law. But we can still learn and apply much of it in our lives.

Quantrill

What did the good shepherd teach? He said He has another Flock which He was going to Join together with His Original Flock!

Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
His Original Flock is the first Israel.
That "Other" Flock is Gentiles.

The Good News, that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, was the same for Abraham, for the First Israel, and for all Gentiles...........no distinction, the Jew first and then the Greek.

Would you change the Body made by Jesus Christ, Himself........I am proud to be called by God in Jesus Christ, Yeshua, along with all who believe, the Jew first and then the G

Back in the early 1970's I was given a dream. Actually it was a lesson in spoken words while I slept in my sleeping bag high up in the Rockies. I believe what was said, and it may help some for people in this thread. Here is the message:

"Now the Children of Israel, while they were in the wilderness, were disobedient, and by their disobedience salvation was gained by the nations." I undestood this and do understand; I certainly hope all who read this will also.

 

[Quantrill]

According to Paul in Romans God is faithful to the Jews. God gave a promise to the Jews and God is faithful with His promises.
Galatians 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

According to scripture in Galatians we are Abrahams offspring, spiritually Jews. God is fully our God, just as God is the God of the Jews. Many gentiles today reject the part of God that speaks to us in the OT, but God speaks in both the old and new just as God speaks to the Jew in both the old and new. We reject much of the OT, the Jew rejects the NT. Both are truth.

We are Abraham's offspring, but not spiritual Jews. God is our God as He is the God of the Jews. We don't reject any part of the Old or New Testament.

Quantrill

 

[JaumeJ]

Read Paul's discourse in Romans on what a true Jew is…………..

 

[Quantrill]

What did the good shepherd teach? He said He has another Flock which He was going to Join together with His Original Flock!

Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
His Original Flock is the first Israel.
That "Other" Flock is Gentiles.

The Good News, that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, was the same for Abraham, for the First Israel, and for all Gentiles...........no distinction, the Jew first and then the Greek.

Would you change the Body made by Jesus Christ, Himself........I am proud to be called by God in Jesus Christ, Yeshua, along with all who believe, the Jew first and then the G

Back in the early 1970's I was given a dream. Actually it was a lesson in spoken words while I slept in my sleeping bag high up in the Rockies. I believe what was said, and it may help some for people in this thread. Here is the message:

"Now the Children of Israel, while they were in the wilderness, were disobedient, and by their disobedience salvation was gained by the nations." I undestood this and do understand; I certainly hope all who read this will also.

The Church is composed of both Jew and Gentile. Of course. Of two, Jew and Gentile, Christ made One, the Church. This doesn't make the Church spiritual Israel.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Read Paul's discourse in Romans on what a true Jew is…………..

I have read it.

Quantrill

 

[JaumeJ]

We are Abraham's offspring, but not spiritual Jews. God is our God as He is the God of the Jews. We don't reject any part of the Old or New Testament.

Quantrill

It sounds as though your dislike of anything connected with Jews is affecting your understanding.

What did Leah say when she was given a manchild whom she called Judah?

Of course we are all Judahs......Jews that is…….for we all praise Yahweh, the title replaced byte word God from the Sanskrit…..

Apparently you are a linguist for you tell me what every word means, but you have no idea of origins or translations…...forgive me, but I find your understanding completely lacking.

 

[Quantrill]

It sounds as though your dislike of anything connected with Jews is affecting your understanding.

What did Leah say when she was given a manchild whom she called Judah?

Of course we are all Judahs......Jews that is…….for we all praise Yahweh, the title replaced byte word God from the Sanskrit…..

Apparently you are a linguist for you tell me what every word means, but you have no idea of origins or translations…...forgive me, but I find your understanding completely lacking.

I don't know where you come up with that. Just because I see the Church as distinct from Israel doesn't mean I dislike the Jews.

What a silly comparison. No, we are not all Judah just because we praise God. And we are not all Israel just because we are saved.

I am telling you what I believe the Bible is saying. No forgiveness necessary.

Quantrill

 

[JaumeJ]

I don't know where you come up with that. Just because I see the Church as distinct from Israel doesn't mean I dislike the Jews.

What a silly comparison. No, we are not all Judah just because we praise God. And we are not all Israel just because we are saved.

I am telling you what I believe the Bible is saying. No forgiveness necessary.

Quantrill

God will not be bringing New Paris, New Chicago or New Moscow from heaven, it is the New Jerusalem, the capitol of the Israel of God with all its inhabitants, praisers of Yah, that is to you, praisers of God………..Praisers of Yah are Jews. Does this put you off? Are you still apart from the true Jews?

Do you think the Israel of God shold be rename the Greece of God? Time will tell...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Romans 11 explains very well the place of Israel in the life of gentile Christians.

Israel in scripture is explained as consisting of the elect of God, the saved. This if ethnic Israel. Scripture sometimes speaks of national Israel, and the Jewish people of that nation are sometimes part of ethnic Israel and sometimes not. It is explained in Romans that God is faithful to His promises to national Israel even when they are unfaithful.

When we accept Christ as our Savior we are adopted into Israel, and all the promises and instructions given to them apply to both Jew and gentile. We are told that in God's eyes there is no difference in people. The Jews were chosen to demonstrate God to all others, and for that they have a special blessing, but as people we are all the same.

yet Jesus changed all that

we can now come to God without fear that we somehow do not meet His 'standards'

when we study the NT, we come to understand that God never intended for people to be saved through the law. the law was but a shadow of the reality, which is in Christ Jesus and the blood of animals could never cleanse of sins and remove them. only the blood of Christ removes them and in Christ, we are acceptable to God

God is our Father. he is not our taskmaster and He has not applied the law to Gentiles. In fact, He has invited the Jews to step out from under the law and recognize the Messiah

Gentiles do not become Jewish. there is absolutely nothing in the NT that refers to Gentiles becoming Jewish...in fact quite the opposite

works of the flesh are not acceptable to God. ONLY those who accept Jesus are acceptable to God and welcome into the Holy of Holies wherein God dwells 'spiritually' speaking

telling people they have to somehow keep any part of the law, that was NEVER given to Gentiles, closes the door to salvation and it is not at all what scripture says

stop conflating the testaments. one is a foreshadowing of the other