Speaking in tongues

[BibleloverBill]

Thanks. Still not sure I'm getting your meaning clearly... oh well.

I do believe that God still speaks to individuals... by whatever means including but not limited to Scripture. What seems to elude Garee is that the Holy Spirit can and does speak to people about the circumstances of their lives... situations about which the Bible says nothing. These "revelations" as he calls them are not intended by God to be additions to Scripture, and I have never heard of anyone claiming that such a message should be added to Scripture. The caveat is simply this: if it contradicts Scripture, then disregard it.

I suspect that the enemy has a field day speaking to people who don't know the Bible well and tricking them into thinking it is God. However, Scripture gives us the strategies to defeat the enemy's wiles. We should not be surprised that the deceiver is still at work, but we should also not prejudge every extra-biblical communication as deceptive.

If, as Garee seems to suggest, God doesn't communicate at all outside of Scripture, then we are limited to a relationship with a book and should reject everything else, lest we be deceived.

My God is bigger than that.

but I have witnessed a lot of faking too. Again, I have experienced all of the gifts including the sign gifts. But a very small number of Christian leaders are true Prophets of God. I cannot name any currently because I rarely watch Christian tv and I never heard any on the radio. But I have quickly discerned false prophets or false prophecies.

 

[SpoonJuly]

You may be speaking in tongues and not even know it.... not the charismatic babbling version but true tongues.

You may be speaking in tongues and not even know it.... not the charismatic babbling version but true tongues.

Can not speak for all, just those I am familiar with in my area----
Speaking it toungs is all they talk about.
This is the center of their worship service.
No service ever ends until every one in the congregation is "speaking it tongues".
And they will tell you with certainty that you are lost and bound for hell is you do not have the gift of tongues.

 

[BibleloverBill]

Can not speak for all, just those I am familiar with in my area----
Speaking it toungs is all they talk about.
This is the center of their worship service.
No service ever ends until every one in the congregation is "speaking it tongues".
And they will tell you with certainty that you are lost and bound for hell is you do not have the gift of tongues.

I never witnessed such in any of the charismatic churches I went to.

 

[KJV1611]

Can not speak for all, just those I am familiar with in my area----
Speaking it toungs is all they talk about.
This is the center of their worship service.
No service ever ends until every one in the congregation is "speaking it tongues".
And they will tell you with certainty that you are lost and bound for hell is you do not have the gift of tongues.

Well that’s evidence that they’re not right and they’re not really speaking in tongues to start with.

 

[SpoonJuly]

I never witnessed such in any of the charismatic churches I went to.

That is why I do not judge those I have not witnessed.
They love to call themself "FULL GOSPEL'" suggesting that we Baptist only preach part of the Gospel.
Can no longer tell what is preached by the name out front. Have to go and hear for yourself.
I really would like for someone to explain why this is so important and what I am missing.

 

[BibleloverBill]

That is why I do not judge those I have not witnessed.
They love to call themself "FULL GOSPEL'" suggesting that we Baptist only preach part of the Gospel.
Can no longer tell what is preached by the name out front. Have to go and hear for yourself.
I really would like for someone to explain why this is so important and what I am missing.

That is not the right way to use "Full Gospel". "Full Gospel" really means the whole New Testament or what Christian Salvation and Sanctification include. I went to a church which had that phrase in its name and is where I saw 1 Corinthians the most. Discerning was difficult because things happened so quickly. But the sermons were not Bible teaching.

I have shared the severe warnings with many about adding or subtracting from God's Word. But most sermons and Bible study books add and many "sinner's prayer"s of easy believism and Grace only preachers subtract from the truths in Romans 3-10. We should be focusing on learning more and more the facts in the Bible so we can know what is true and false in the news, in sermons, in radio and TV programs, and in the Internet, and in other books.

But Christians should not be doing any condemning or unconstructive criticizing of any other denominations or individuals that has a few different beliefs with. But we must not compromise about the Christian Salvation essentials including the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.

 

[presidente]

No that is not what I think. I think amen means verily, truly, amen, so be it.
The it as in "so be it" pointing to the subject.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words" of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:18-20

The first Amen in lieu of the warning
The second and last it "so be it" in respect with the grace of Christ with us

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.Revelation 22:18

The end of the story.Revlation is still the last book.

The perfect or complete has come. What he had in part up till the last Amen we are to look for no more. The existing is all that is required to have a living relationship with God. The Elect because they will not go above that which is ritten cannot be deceived by those who add or substract. He has warned the Elect beforehand .

The 'it' is not in Hebrew. It's a word that specifies agreement, not a reference to a substantive 'it.' The word 'Amen' also shows up in the Bible before the last 'amen' in the book of Revelation.

The perfection/completion that Paul wrote about is something, that after it arrives, will make his own speech, knowledge, and understanding when he was writings scripture seem childish. Your theory does not work. Paul also wrote, 'So that ye come behind in no spiritual gift, waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.'

 

[CS1]

Thanks?

you are most wlcome

 

[garee]

The 'it' is not in Hebrew. It's a word that specifies agreement, not a reference to a substantive 'it.' The word 'Amen' also shows up in the Bible before the last 'amen' in the book of Revelation.

The perfection/completion that Paul wrote about is something, that after it arrives, will make his own speech, knowledge, and understanding when he was writings scripture seem childish. Your theory does not work. Paul also wrote, 'So that ye come behind in no spiritual gift, waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.'

Hi Bill thanks for the reply. With all due respect I see that in another light.

Spiritual =unseen, the eternal.
Literal=that seen, the temporal

I would ask, Why in the world a person would even suggest a person makes a noise and needs another person to interpret it? It reminds me of the garden of Eden... the reason for the fall . Did God really say... or was he just making noises without meaning?

No signs gifts. Sign are for those who refuse to hear prophecy God's tongue. We walk by faith the eternal, not seen

We are to do the good pleasure of Him who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness we do not impute His understanding to the creature seen. The Jews that required a sign before they would belive are noted for turning things upside down as earthly inspiried from the devil rather tha the doctrines of God that fall like rain inspired from above


God does His own interpreting used for two walking together, called a personal relationship .He warns us of the antichrists that say we do need a man to teach us and therefore usurp His teaching authority. We do not know him after the private interpretations of men.

The Jews that refused to hear the word of God but rather performed whatsoever came form their own mouths as oral traditions of the fathers in affect mocked God as did the father of lies in the garden.He divorced them and promised with stammering lips (mocking lips) a sign against them by speaking bringing his interpretation or tongue as prophecy in tongues of all the nations of the world male and female Jew and gentile .

The foundation in respect to the understaning 1 Corinthian 14 is found in Isaiah 28 . It is not a new innovation from the new testament, make a noise to confirm something? Like falling back slain in the spirit, or holy laughter, a temporal healing, drinking poison and it not affecting death. What the next sign ?.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering (mocking) lips and another tongue(understandable language) will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.(prophecy)But the word of the Lord (Prophecy) was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, (under the fiery judgment) and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, (tongue of prophecy) ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.isiah 28:10-13

And yes, two amens…... one to witness not to add or subtract from the book of prophecy and the other in respect to the grace that helps us not to add or subtract from the perfect.

 

[garee]

Can not speak for all, just those I am familiar with in my area----
Speaking it toungs is all they talk about.
This is the center of their worship service.
No service ever ends until every one in the congregation is "speaking it tongues".
And they will tell you with certainty that you are lost and bound for hell is you do not have the gift of tongues.

.
I went with a friend once and the whole time was spent confirming they have what they call witness of the spirit . Making noises without meaning, healing of arthritis, headaches, one a baby would not drink it formula, one in a hope of hair growth, many lined up falling back slain in the Spirit .The pastor went down the line slaying men in the spirit with two assistants to catch them (approx. 25) and holy laughter.

One hour and a half. Where was the gospel? Or was that it?

 

[Dino246]

...

I would ask, Why in the world a person would even suggest a person makes a noise and needs another person to interpret it? It reminds me of the garden of Eden... the reason for the fall . Did God really say... or was he just making noises without meaning?

No signs gifts. Sign are for those who refuse to hear prophecy God's tongue. We walk by faith the eternal, not seen
...
God does His own interpreting used for two walking together, called a personal relationship .He warns us of the antichrists that say we do need a man to teach us and therefore usurp His teaching authority. We do not know him after the private interpretations of men.
...
And yes, two amens…... one to witness not to add or subtract from the book of prophecy and the other in respect to the grace that helps us not to add or subtract from the perfect.

Your repetition of already-refuted and/or irrelevant statements is silly, and your refusal to accept plain Scripture is disturbing.

 

[BibleloverBill]

Hi Bill thanks for the reply. With all due respect I see that in another light.

Spiritual =unseen, the eternal.
Literal=that seen, the temporal

I would ask, Why in the world a person would even suggest a person makes a noise and needs another person to interpret it? It reminds me of the garden of Eden... the reason for the fall . Did God really say... or was he just making noises without meaning?

No signs gifts. Sign are for those who refuse to hear prophecy God's tongue. We walk by faith the eternal, not seen

We are to do the good pleasure of Him who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness we do not impute His understanding to the creature seen. The Jews that required a sign before they would belive are noted for turning things upside down as earthly inspiried from the devil rather tha the doctrines of God that fall like rain inspired from above


God does His own interpreting used for two walking together, called a personal relationship .He warns us of the antichrists that say we do need a man to teach us and therefore usurp His teaching authority. We do not know him after the private interpretations of men.

The Jews that refused to hear the word of God but rather performed whatsoever came form their own mouths as oral traditions of the fathers in affect mocked God as did the father of lies in the garden.He divorced them and promised with stammering lips (mocking lips) a sign against them by speaking bringing his interpretation or tongue as prophecy in tongues of all the nations of the world male and female Jew and gentile .

The foundation in respect to the understaning 1 Corinthian 14 is found in Isaiah 28 . It is not a new innovation from the new testament, make a noise to confirm something? Like falling back slain in the spirit, or holy laughter, a temporal healing, drinking poison and it not affecting death. What the next sign ?.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering (mocking) lips and another tongue(understandable language) will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.(prophecy)But the word of the Lord (Prophecy) was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, (under the fiery judgment) and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, (tongue of prophecy) ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.isiah 28:10-13

And yes, two amens…... one to witness not to add or subtract from the book of prophecy and the other in respect to the grace that helps us not to add or subtract from the perfect.

***God said,

“So shall My Word be that goes forth out of My mouth:

it shall not return unto Me void,

but it shall accomplish that which I please,

and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” [Isaiah 55:11]

And good Bible education is rare in most Christian churches.

2 Timothy 2:15

“Study earnestly to present yourself approved to God,

a workman [or workwoman] who does not need to be ashamed,

rightly dividing the Word of Truth.”

Isaiah 28:9-10

“Whom shall He teach knowledge?

And whom shall He make to understand doctrine?

They who are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breasts.

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept;

line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.”



And no prophecy in the Bible is for private interpretation, meaning opinions. Those are facts and some of course are yet to be fulfilled. True Christians will not rely on opinions by religions, denominations, and preachers. They should be discerning all that they hear and read through the filter in relation to what they know of the Bible. Do a word search of the word "opinion" in the Bible. You will be shocked. 3 times in Job 32 when one of his adversaries rebukes him. In USA, we are overwhelmed with opinions everywhere. I have shared the severe warnings with many about adding or subtracting from God's Word. But most sermons and Bible study books add and many "sinner's prayer"s of easy believism and Grace only preachers subtract from the truths in Romans 3-10. We should be focusing on learning more and more the facts in the Bible so we can know what is true and false in the news, in sermons, in radio and TV programs, and in the Internet, and in other books.

***The shoulds for true Christians are in John 14-17 1 Corinthians 3, Philippians 2 & 4:4-13, Ephesians 4-6, and Jude 3 & 20-23. There is a great need for Christ-likeness!

 

[BibleloverBill]

.
I went with a friend once and the whole time was spent confirming they have what they call witness of the spirit . Making noises without meaning, healing of arthritis, headaches, one a baby would not drink it formula, one in a hope of hair growth, many lined up falling back slain in the Spirit .The pastor went down the line slaying men in the spirit with two assistants to catch them (approx. 25) and holy laughter.

One hour and a half. Where was the gospel? Or was that it?

What happened in the arrest of Jesus Christ after He said "I AM". The "he" in the KJV is in italics meaning it is not in the original transcripts they were using. But several times I have witnessed feeling something in charismatic services that forced me to sit down. I didn't like those preachers who push people down. Also I was married to a woman in Germany who I thought faked shakes and falling backwards during altar calls to get attention. But I could not discern if others were faking or not. I just prayed for the people. But I know what the Unforgiveable Sin is, so I never condemned such happenings. I knew how my wife thought and for 7 1/2 years she would not do my hope of her living Proverbs 3:5-6. And she divorced me to marry a man she knew when she was in her early 20s.

 

[presidente]

But God-pleasing prophecies and interpreted tongue speaking will have nothing but Bible truths in it. The most important part of the Great Commission is for proper teaching about God's wonderful truths, wisdom, and hope to be done. It doesn't mention even soul-winning or tithing. The New Testament is full of unselfish friendship evangelism and generosity of true Christians instead of the two popular preaching topics. And where is Philippians 2:10 and Ephesians 4:11-16 happening? I would move there immediately. Where is Christ-likeness? I am 71-years-old and have witnessed very little of such.

I have heard many prophecies that sounded like quoted or paraphrased scriptures together, and I certainly believe the Spirit can give people such prophecies. The Bible also shows us that prophecies can tell an individual about his future ministry, as in the case of Timothy, or make manifest the secrets of men's hearts as we see in I Corinthians 14. I've witnessed these types of prophecies as well.

 

[BibleloverBill]

I have heard many prophecies that sounded like quoted or paraphrased scriptures together, and I certainly believe the Spirit can give people such prophecies. The Bible also shows us that prophecies can tell an individual about his future ministry, as in the case of Timothy, or make manifest the secrets of men's hearts as we see in I Corinthians 14. I've witnessed these types of prophecies as well.

And there are similarities in regards to true Biblical Counseling too.
(d) good and bad types counseling-- https://www.box.com/s/2f8c34dd74fd328a9b8a

 

[presidente]

Hi Bill thanks for the reply. With all due respect I see that in another light.

Spiritual =unseen, the eternal.
Literal=that seen, the temporal

I think you confused me for Bill.

That's not what 'literal' means. Literal means according to the letter, without metaphor. Like if someone says, "I literally had egg on my face" that means he actually physically had egg on his face. He doesn't mean it as a metaphor for being embarrassed.

I would ask, Why in the world a person would even suggest a person makes a noise and needs another person to interpret it?

Are you saying this in opposition to Paul's teaching that speaking in tongues should be interpreted in the church? I suggest you just believe what the Bible teaches. If you do not understand a language, it is noise. If someone interprets edifying words spoken in tongues, you can be edified by the interpretation.

It reminds me of the garden of Eden... the reason for the fall . Did God really say... or was he just making noises without meaning?

So how does that remind you of Eden? Are you asking, "Did Paul really say, in I Corinthians, to let one speak in tongues and let one interpret?

No signs gifts.

Who are you arguing against? God does signs and wonders through people. This is well established in the Bible. The Bible also teaches that the Spirit gives gifts as He wills.

Your responses remind me of 'Did God really say?'

Why not just accept what the Bible teaches instead of arguing with it?

Sign are for those who refuse to hear prophecy God's tongue.

Signs are for a lot of people. Signs were for the apostles, also, to know when the sign of Jesus' coming would be. Signs in Acts were also for those who would believe after seeing them and hearing the word of God. An evil and adulterous generation also sought after a sign. Jews demanded signs, but Paul and Barnabas did signs among the Gentiles and reported them at the council in Jerusalem.

You get hung up on a certain verse and try to make it say things that contradict other scriptures.

We walk by faith the eternal, not seen

When Peter walked, literally, by faith, he was able to perform the miracle of walking on water. When he stopped believing, he could no longer perform the miracle.

 

[BibleloverBill]

I think you confused me for Bill.

That's not what 'literal' means. Literal means according to the letter, without metaphor. Like if someone says, "I literally had egg on my face" that means he actually physically had egg on his face. He doesn't mean it as a metaphor for being embarrassed.



Are you saying this in opposition to Paul's teaching that speaking in tongues should be interpreted in the church? I suggest you just believe what the Bible teaches. If you do not understand a language, it is noise. If someone interprets edifying words spoken in tongues, you can be edified by the interpretation.



So how does that remind you of Eden? Are you asking, "Did Paul really say, in I Corinthians, to let one speak in tongues and let one interpret?


Who are you arguing against? God does signs and wonders through people. This is well established in the Bible. The Bible also teaches that the Spirit gives gifts as He wills.

Your responses remind me of 'Did God really say?'

Why not just accept what the Bible teaches instead of arguing with it?



Signs are for a lot of people. Signs were for the apostles, also, to know when the sign of Jesus' coming would be. Signs in Acts were also for those who would believe after seeing them and hearing the word of God. An evil and adulterous generation also sought after a sign. Jews demanded signs, but Paul and Barnabas did signs among the Gentiles and reported them at the council in Jerusalem.

You get hung up on a certain verse and try to make it say things that contradict other scriptures.



When Peter walked, literally, by faith, he was able to perform the miracle of walking on water. When he stopped believing, he could no longer perform the miracle.

***I didn't write any of that. Mis-identification. I have never been against the Apostle Paul's teachings. The head of a Jesus Only group or cult wrote 9 pages about why he contracted himself and was a hypocrite. I was shocked. I prayed that he would get sensitive to Holy Spirit convicting. But even the Mennonites and the Amish emphasize only the Sermon of the Mount. And then most of the hyper Baptists are missing out on divine peace and divine joy because they are against the Holy Spirit because they hate the Charismatics so much.

 

[garee]

What happened in the arrest of Jesus Christ after He said "I AM". The "he" in the KJV is in italics meaning it is not in the original transcripts they were using. But several times I have witnessed feeling something in charismatic services that forced me to sit down. I didn't like those preachers who push people down. Also I was married to a woman in Germany who I thought faked shakes and falling backwards during altar calls to get attention. But I could not discern if others were faking or not. I just prayed for the people. But I know what the Unforgiveable Sin is, so I never condemned such happenings. I knew how my wife thought and for 7 1/2 years she would not do my hope of her living Proverbs 3:5-6. And she divorced me to marry a man she knew when she was in her early 20s.

I would offer. The phenomime of falling back or backward indicted they were under the eternal judgment a sign against themselves just as tongues today is making a noise with no meaning.

The focus would seem to be a Judas used as a new testament type of one who knew not Christ and was eliminated from the twelve apostles which later in respect to the twelve were used as a description of the heavenly City prepared as the bride of Christ ,the believers. the apostles represented the wall that make up the eternal city.

This is just as the tribe of Dan also eliminated from the twelve, with twelve representing the authority of God with tribes, represented gates of the City prepared as a bride. Dan is used in the same way a type. As false prophecy in respect to a serpent so that men fall back to indicate they are under the fiery judgement and not blessing of the lord.
I would not advise and if it is occurring I would pray for rest from it.

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

How would that have anything to do with the unforgiveable sin if a person does not perform it? Seeing God does the judging. Is doubt a unforgiveable sin ?

 

[garee]

***I didn't write any of that. Mis-identification. I have never been against the Apostle Paul's teachings. The head of a Jesus Only group or cult wrote 9 pages about why he contracted himself and was a hypocrite. I was shocked. I prayed that he would get sensitive to Holy Spirit convicting. But even the Mennonites and the Amish emphasize only the Sermon of the Mount. And then most of the hyper Baptists are missing out on divine peace and divine joy because they are against the Holy Spirit because they hate the Charismatics so much.

Sorry for the mis-indenification

 

[Dino246]

I would offer. The phenomime of falling back or backward indicted they were under the eternal judgment a sign against themselves just as tongues today is making a noise with no meaning.

There is no connection between the two. Just because you don't understand the meaning of the tongue doesn't indicate that it has no meaning.

The focus would seem to be a Judas used as a new testament type of one who knew not Christ and was eliminated from the twelve apostles which later in respect to the twelve were used as a description of the heavenly City prepared as the bride of Christ ,the believers. the apostles represented the wall that make up the eternal city.

This is just as the tribe of Dan also eliminated from the twelve, with twelve representing the authority of God with tribes, represented gates of the City prepared as a bride. Dan is used in the same way a type. As false prophecy in respect to a serpent so that men fall back to indicate they are under the fiery judgement and not blessing of the lord.
I would not advise and if it is occurring I would pray for rest from it.

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

How would that have anything to do with the unforgiveable sin if a person does not perform it? Seeing God does the judging. Is doubt a unforgiveable sin ?

None of this has anything to do with speaking in tongues. You're looking for connections where none exist.