Not By Works

[VCO]

^ ^ Made by request, for theanointedsinner ^ ^​

AMEN!

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yes, those religious men who called the Christ, Lord, Lord, did have "works", but the Christ didn't know them because they were not the "works of God" rather, disobedient works. That is what sin, or as He calls it here, iniquity is.

Maybe they were creating and/or promoting images of God in the likeness of men. Iniquity!! Maybe they had created their own High days and rejected the Feasts of the Christ. Maybe they replaced God's Sabbath with one created by Constantine.

Imagine the "false picture" they preached to others with their huge churches, and Lord this, and Lord that. Giving Christ all the credit for their wonderful works. "Christ in me", I can hear it now.

But in the end God's Word stands.

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

i disagree with your guess work

but your out of context OT verse means nothing in regards to the conversation


8104. shamar ►

Strong's Concordance

shamar: to keep, watch, preserve​

Original Word: שָׁמַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shamar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mar')
Definition: to keep, watch, preserve

5083. téreó ►

Strong's Concordance

téreó: to watch over, to guard​

Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.




His sheep do keep His commandments even if we may stumble... He abides in us... we are made new... and we hear His voice

this has nothing to do with the loss of salvation or gaining it by works as you like to push



1 john 3

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God

James 1:17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


Romans 11:29
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​

 

[NoNameMcgee]

cutting off the branch does not negate salvation, Praise the Lord

branches cut off <- He does not abide in

these represent the goats like judas
who are among us

profess to be believers

but have never been born again


there is no fruit because they have no power in themselfs to bare fruit


they will probably point to their works not knowing it is Jesus who saves.... and not our own performance

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Religious man, nor any man, did anything to provide the Mercy of God. Nothing I do alters it, changes it, creates it, makes it void. God has offered it to all humans. All we need to do is Follow the "path" He created, not religious man created, to find this "free gift"

1 Cor. 9:
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection ( Subjection to what? Religious traditions of the land?) lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Phil. 3:
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Matt. 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

I don't believe the whole "Come as you are" religion. Although quite popular as the Lord prophesied, there are volumes of scriptures which expose it as a man made religious tradition. I would caution by brothers to remember to consider "EVERY WORD" of God when we are "proving what is acceptable to God". I think we will find, as those of Christ's time found, that much of the Mainstream Religions of the land are not from the God of the Bible.

So, in your view 'castaway' can only mean lost salvation and an eternity in hell? Not possible a man making shipwreck of his life whereby he is unable to serve God due to a personal failing. I know a few men called to preach that are no longer in the ministry because they failed to keep their body under subjection . . . yet they still love and serve the Lord in other capacities.

You have a serious case of tunnel vision.

Are you a Jehovah's Witness? And if you are, are you ashamed to admit it? Perhaps you fear what men might do to your membership here?

 

[benhur]

I explained that to you once before, and you ignored it.

ALL TRUE BRANCHES DO PRODUCE GOOD FRUIT.

FAKE BRANCHES DO NOT PRODUCE ANY GOOD FRUIT.

Fake Branches are ALL WHO DENY JESUS IS THE CREATOR AND THE ONLY DEITY THAT HAS EVER EXISTED AND EVER WILL BE, THERE FOR HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE, LITERALLY.

You are FALSELY counting those of Thorny Soil and Rocky Soil as real Christians.


Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Luke 2:11-12 (HCSB)
11 Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.
12 This will be the sign for you: You will find a baby wrapped snugly in cloth and lying in a feeding trough.”

I explained this to you before also. No fake branch is on the true vine. Do you think those who deny Jesus are going to be IN HIM? No. only those IN HIM are good branches and they are the ones referred to in John 15:2. If they do not produce fruit, they will be cut off. Same as in this scripture:
Romans 11:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The good (those that believe and are saved), will receive goodness from God, only if we continue in his goodness, otherwise we also will be cut off. You got to get a clue sooner or later.

 

[Studyman]

i disagree with your guess work

but your out of context OT verse means nothing in regards to the conversation


8104. shamar ►

Strong's Concordance​

shamar: to keep, watch, preserve

Original Word: שָׁמַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shamar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mar')
Definition: to keep, watch, preserve

5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance​

téreó: to watch over, to guard

Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.




His sheep do keep His commandments even if we may stumble... He abides in us... we are made new... and we hear His voice

this has nothing to do with the loss of salvation or gaining it by works as you like to push



1 john 3

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God

James 1:17 - Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.


Romans 11:29
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​

Well, you changed the subject, and completely ignored the scriptures I posted, but that seems to be the custom of many folks on this forum.

As to me following any "law" to save me, I can't save myself. I must trust the Christ, the Word of God, in all matters of Salvation. Religious men, like those we were speaking about, will try, as the Pharisees did, and the serpent did to Eve, to trick me into trusting their religion, their voice and rejecting the Word of God. This has been going on since Cain and Abel and will continue until the Christ comes back.

The Word of God has already told me who God gives His Mercy to. But most religious men can not accept His Words.

I don't believe a person can have "Faith" in the Word of God which became Flesh, and not believe all that He says. So I know there is no "LAW" that I can follow that will cleanse my sins. It is foolishness to suggest such a thing, although before the Christ there were "Works of the Law" specifically designed for that very purpose, that the Jews were still pushing on the New Converts and the Galatians. But the Word of God had already promised a "change" in this Priesthood in which the Messiah would shed His own Blood for our transgressions. Those humble obedient servants like Zechariahs, Abraham, Simeon, Anna, all knew Him when He came to them, but the disobedient mainstream preachers of His time did not. This is an important Biblical fact regarding "Who He knows, and who He doesn't know.

Acts 7:
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

Most religious men will work to discredit or silence any attempt to expose their religion. But some, those who have a willing heart, will believe the scriptures when it is shown to them.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

My argument has always been about the Whole teaching of the Word of God VS the Mainstream teaching of the religions of the land. It was the same for Caleb and the Prophets and the disciples. The Christ said it would be the same today. And I have come to "Believe" in Him.

 

[VCO]

I explained this to you before also. No fake branch is on the true vine. Do you think those who deny Jesus are going to be IN HIM? No. only those IN HIM are good branches and they are the ones referred to in John 15:2. If they do not produce fruit, they will be cut off. Same as in this scripture:
Romans 11:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The good (those that believe and are saved), will receive goodness from God, only if we continue in his goodness, otherwise we also will be cut off. You got to get a clue sooner or later.

Your LOGIC is all WRONG.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! [born again] Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

 

[theanointedsinner]

Your LOGIC is all WRONG.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! [born again] Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

or,
we can clarify it as "knew" is born again
while not known = not born again

 

[benhur]

"God opens a door that no man can shut".

I always thought the door was a door I needed to ENTER but the door is an EXIT door!!!!

Exit from the Old Covenant (Dead Works) into the New Covenant of the Finished Work of Jesus!!!

Jesus is the exit door......we are done with sin and the law.

Rejoice!!!

Are you done with sin, and the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). The law of Christ is the law of good works. Are you obeying the Law of Christ in the bible?

 

[mailmandan]

Your LOGIC is all WRONG.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! [born again] Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

In regards to Matthew 7:21-23, I'll never forget, prior to my conversion several years ago, while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I read Matthew 7:22 and thought to myself, wow! These many people accomplished all of that, "prophesied in His name, cast out demons, and did many wonderful works" but that still was not "good enough?" Then I thought to myself at that time, how am I going to "top that" and be "good enough?" Such is the mindset of someone who believes that salvation is based on works.

Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

These many people (unbelievers) in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in their works to save them and NOT IN CHRIST ALONE. Jesus NEVER knew them which means they were NEVER saved. Their hearts were not right with God, so their attempted external obedience was stained with sin. Religious, but not right with God. *Seeking salvation by works is not the will of the Father.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people in Matthew 7:22 were not true converts.

Without faith it's impossible to please God no matter how many alleged wonderful works that these many people set out to conjure up through the flesh. This is why Jesus referred to them as WORKERS OF INIQUITY/LAWLESSNESS! Descriptive of the lost.

 

[benhur]

Your LOGIC is all WRONG.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! [born again] Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

I agree that someone's logic is all WRONG.

 

[theanointedsinner]

branches cut off <- He does not abide in

these represent the goats like judas
who are among us

profess to be believers

but have never been born again


there is no fruit because they have no power in themselfs to bare fruit


they will probably point to their works not knowing it is Jesus who saves.... and not our own performance

I thought it was the tree getting saved or not saved

how much of the Bible do I misunderstand?

 

[TruthTalk]

I explained this to you before also. No fake branch is on the true vine. Do you think those who deny Jesus are going to be IN HIM? No. only those IN HIM are good branches and they are the ones referred to in John 15:2. If they do not produce fruit, they will be cut off. Same as in this scripture:
Romans 11:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The good (those that believe and are saved), will receive goodness from God, only if we continue in his goodness, otherwise we also will be cut off. You got to get a clue sooner or later.

Hi Ben, Jesus told the story (an allegory), of "The Vine and the Branches" to his disciples because Jesus was referring to, Isaiah5:7. and Psalm80. He was warning the disciple's what happened when Israel became "disobedient"

You are carrying this warning from Jesus to far because He will only "cut off" hangers on to the branch who produce no fruit and He will not "cut off" a true believer who will always produce fruit, even if they produce only a little fruit.

Your misinterpretation of John15:2 does not make a valid doctrine of the Church. The "Eternal Security of the Believer", is a valid well established doctrie of the Church and is supported by the bible over and over again.

Also there is a quote from William Hendriksen a well known bible scholar at the end of this post just so you will have more proof from a biblical scholar. (William Hendriksen (18 November 1900 – 12 January 1982), was a New Testament scholar and writer of Bible commentaries.)

Isaiah5:7
"Indeed Israel is the vineyard of the Lord of Heaven’s Armies,the people of Judah are the cultivated place in which he took delight. He waited for justice, but look what he got – disobedience! He waited for fairness, but look what he got – cries for help!"
Provided by bible.org

Psalm80:14-19
14) O God of Heaven’s Armies, come back!Look down from heaven and take notice!Take care of this vine, 15) the root your right hand planted,the shoot you made to grow! 16) It is burned and cut down.They die because you are displeased with them. 17 May you give support to the one you have chosen, to the one whom you raised up for yourself! 18 Then we will not turn away from you. Revive us and we will pray to you! 19 O Lord God of Heaven’s Armies, restore us! Smile on us! Then we will be delivered!

William Hendriksen , Exposition of the Gospel
Hendriksen writes, “In no sense whatever do such passages as 15:2 and 15:6 suggest that there is a falling away from grace, as if those who were once actually saved finally perish. This allegory plainly teaches that the branches which are taken away and burned represent people who never once bore fruit, not even when they were ‘in’ Christ. Hence, they never were true believers; and for them the in-the-vine relationship, though close, was merely outward. William Hendriksen, Exposition of the Gospel

 

[posthuman]

I don't believe the whole "Come as you are" religion.

that seems really ill-defined.
do you mean you have to make yourself 'good enough' to receive Him?

in the parable of the wedding feast, where the poor and the lame and the crippled were invited, and everyone going by on the road, someone was thrown out because they weren't dressed in the right clothes. it was evidently important not to be wearing just anything - not like a 'come as you are' party in the common parlance.

everyone needed to be dressed in special robes. where do you think they got their wedding garments? esp. the beggars?
who is the man without the right clothes?

 

[Magenta]

that seems really ill-defined.
do you mean you have to make yourself 'good enough' to receive Him?

in the parable of the wedding feast, where the poor and the lame and the crippled were invited, and everyone going by on the road, someone was thrown out because they weren't dressed in the right clothes. it was evidently important not to be wearing just anything - not like a 'come as you are' party in the common parlance.

everyone needed to be dressed in special robes. where do you think they got their wedding garments? esp. the beggars?
who is the man without the right clothes?

The man in the "wrong clothes" is he who is robed in his own righteousness instead of the righteousness of Christ

 

[GodsGrace101]

I am not perfect but my Saviour is . . . and I am covered with His righteousness. Since I am not perfect - I need the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse me of all unrighteousness, and that includes post-salvation. As Paul says, "I am complete in Him"!

Do I enjoy sin? Sometimes . . . but. Do I want to sin occasionally? yea. Do I struggle with the flesh? Absolutely. Will I ever be perfect in my own righteousness? Never! Not in this life . . . but then I will have cast aside my old body of filth.

I thought you believed in eternal security.

"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world" (Galatians 6:14).

This is where believing in eternal security gets many persons...on their way away from God.
If you enjoy sin, there's something wrong...

 

[posthuman]

Are you done with sin, and the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). The law of Christ is the law of good works. Are you obeying the Law of Christ in the bible?

Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same way of thinking, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, so as to live for the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for human passions but for the will of God.
(1 Peter 4:1-2) ​

​

sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(Romans 6:14) ​

​

If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.
(James 2:8) ​

​

Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one test his own work, and then his reason to boast will be in himself alone and not in his neighbor. For each will have to bear his own load.
(Galatians 6:2-5)​

​

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. ​

(Galatians 6:14) ​

​

 

[dcontroversal]

If you are speaking about me, I have never said that I know the Lord.
I have never said that my WONDERFUL works I do in the NAME of JESUS has helped me gain entrance into the KOG. Not once.

So I guess you are not talking to me.

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHA.......sure you have...........many have pointed this out to you, but it goes right over your head...

 

[dcontroversal]

Again you only post the parts of the Scripture which advance your teaching that you are already saved "Past tense". But what about the rest of God's Word?

9 Not of (mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained (Not man) that we should walk in them.

What " Good Works" that God "before ordained" would this be Decon? What about a religion which claims the Christ as their Lord, that call Him Lord, Lord, but refuse to walk in the "good works" God Foreordained that we should walk in them? Would this not be called "iniquity"? What about Pauls words below. Am I allowed to consider them?

Rom. 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Now Decon, how can this be. According to your religion, if I'm saved, I am already immortal and "shall surely not die", eternally secure because I am saved, one sentence in Paul's letter to Titus says so.. But Paul also says I can be "cut off".

This places man in a bad place in your religion Decon. If I'm cut off because I didn't continue in the "Good Works" that God foreordained that I should walk in them, you will just say I wasn't "saved" to begin with. But if I "work" to study and "prove what is that acceptable "Will of God" as instructed, you will preach that I am trying to save myself by my own works.

I could follow your religion till I die and take my chances, but doesn't it make more sense to follow His instructions now? Wouldn't that be faith in Him, rather than faith in man's religion?



Actually, you don't. Your entire religion is wrapped around a few scriptures taken out of context and used to create a religion which absolves religious men from any of their own choices or man made religious traditions. In this way Mainstream Christianity can create their own image of God and no one cares. They can create their own High Days and no one cares. They can create their own Sabbaths and no one cares. If I consider ALL of God's Word, this religion is proven to be from man and not from God. Should I not warn you and my brothers of this?



The Bible says God's Words are spiritual, and we worship in Spirit. So absolutely we build an ARK in our mind based on the instructions the Christ gives us, and we fill it with His definition of Holy and unholy, Clean and unclean, not ours. Knowing full well the religions of the land will mock us and laugh at us because they really don't believe what The Word of God said is coming.



Because you don't consider "ALL" of God's Word in your religion, you ask this question. Because I do "believe" the Word of God which became Flesh, I can answer it with His Word's not mine.
The Christ doesn't desire the sacrifice of animals, this I have learned by following His instruction to live by EVERY WORD of God.

1 SAm. 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

When did these scriptures become Void?



Have you not read "ALL" the Word's of my Savior? "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The true Jerusalem is in our mind.



All your question are answered in the scriptures you ignore.

Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world (or the religions of this world) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Shall I give tithes to a religion which says Lord, Lord, but refuses to "DO" as He says? God forbid!!!!

It's all about what ALL God's word teaches when we, in Faith, put them all together. Something the serpent convinced Eve not to do.

Nice twist....answer my points or do not address me again.....and again you embellish the word to your own demise by adding a word to the text...."mans"

You have NO HONESTY and or ability to be truthful........exactly why many no longer address you

 

[dcontroversal]

Folks......what is one thing we all notice about the workers for and Cainologists in this thread...

A. They have no honesty
B. They ADD to the word or embellish it
C. The will not answer any direct quote that proves their theology false and misdirect in the process.

Salvation is SPOKEN of in ALL three verb tenses and YET a few on here STILL deceptively state that no one is saved until the END<--this is as FALSE as can be.....I sure hope those new to the faith and or weak in the faith see right through this deception that they spew.