Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Again we have had another poster coming in here and taking James and Paul out of context to peddle a working for dogma.....let us set this straight yet again...

James is speaking about a mere claim of belief that God is real and even makes the comparison to devils which believe and tremble about it...his audience was the 12 JEWISH tribes who were scattered abroad....today the JEWS BELIEVE in GOD, but do not have saving FAITH<--that is the CONTEXT...not FAITH plus WORKS for salvation

PAUL is clear....HE concluded that a man is JUSTIFIED before GOD by FAITH without the DEED/WORKS of the LAW....end of story.....

MAN is saved entirely by FAITH without one work attached to GAIN eternal SALVATION......anything beyond that is LUMPED under SANCTIFICATION and not JUSTIFICATION

 

[theanointedsinner]

Again we have had another poster coming in here and taking James and Paul out of context to peddle a working for dogma.....let us set this straight yet again...

James is speaking about a mere claim of belief that God is real and even makes the comparison to devils which believe and tremble about it...his audience was the 12 JEWISH tribes who were scattered abroad....today the JEWS BELIEVE in GOD, but do not have saving FAITH<--that is the CONTEXT...not FAITH plus WORKS for salvation

PAUL is clear....HE concluded that a man is JUSTIFIED before GOD by FAITH without the DEED/WORKS of the LAW....end of story.....

MAN is saved entirely by FAITH without one work attached to GAIN eternal SALVATION......anything beyond that is LUMPED under SANCTIFICATION and not JUSTIFICATION

seems like the next goal for bible study, is to be well versed in the 1st epistle of John, and the book of James,
if we know them at the back of our hand, it will be almost impossible to be swayed by every wind of doctrine. that's probably how dcon did it. or am I wrong?

 

[UnderGrace]

Again, I ask how much "works" does one need to demonstrate true faith.

If you are a JW, you need to think long and hard on this and if you are honest with yourself, you will admit that there is no answer.

So where does that leave you ......with no way to save yourself by works.

Me thinks there will be no answer forthcoming.....the user has been moved along. Well we tried.

He/she came to argue and not learn sadly, hopefully though he/she left a little less sure of his false theology

 

[dcontroversal]

seems like the next goal for bible study, is to be well versed in the 1st epistle of John, and the book of James,
if we know them at the back of our hand, it will be almost impossible to be swayed by every wind of doctrine. that's probably how dcon did it. or am I wrong?

The bible is clear....I had to study through it twice a year in seminary....I have studied it intently for the last 32 years....this is not to say that I know it all and or am not wrong in certain areas and am always willing to adjust my view when one can prove my view wrong....but the beginning of the knowledge of God is the salvation message....it is SIMPLE to understand if one is but HONEST with the verbiage, context, verb tense and the words inspired by God.....

 

[theanointedsinner]

The bible is clear....I had to study through it twice a year in seminary....I have studied it intently for the last 32 years....this is not to say that I know it all and or am not wrong in certain areas and am always willing to adjust my view when one can prove my view wrong....but the beginning of the knowledge of God is the salvation message....it is SIMPLE to understand if one is but HONEST with the verbiage, context, verb tense and the words inspired by God.....

based on what I read from your post, are you saying that, we should pay extra more attention on verbs when Reading the Bible?

 

[dcontroversal]

based on what I read from your post, are you saying that, we should pay extra more attention on verbs when Reading the Bible?

Context
Inspired words
Verb tense

and above all HONESTY

 

[theanointedsinner]

it's also sad of what people are willing to do (in the wrong direction) to find assurance when they doubt their salvation

 

[UnderGrace]

it's also sad of what people are willing to do (in the wrong direction) to find assurance when they doubt their salvation

Amen!!!

 

[theanointedsinner]

it's good to use hell as a motivator

but don't forget to encourage how salvation is definitely possible for them, and that salvation is simpler than what most would think

 

[preacher4truth]

-----------------------------------
Jesus said it was a VISION, not an actual event.

Peter dismantles your false theory (2 Peter 1:16) as he states they saw this spectacle and event with their own eyes. That, and you're misunderstanding and abusing the choice of the word "vision" in English to describe the text and event in Matthew 17:9.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Peter dismantles your false theory (2 Peter 1:16) as he states they saw this spectacle and event with their own eyes. That, and you're misunderstanding and abusing the choice of the word "vision" in English to describe the text and event in Matthew 17:9.

Cultists very rarely ever compare Scripture with Scripture . . . all they know are proof texts . . . things that the Watchtower Tract Society have told them to believe. That and their gross mistranslation of the Bible known as the New World Translation.

 

[mailmandan]

Silly claim; works are a PART of REAL Faith: "Faith WITHOUT works is DEAD!"- James, oine of Jesus' brothers

Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of real faith, but not the essence of real faith and not the means of our salvation.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works.

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not real faith.

 

[theanointedsinner]

Peter dismantles your false theory (2 Peter 1:16) as he states they saw this spectacle and event with their own eyes. That, and you're misunderstanding and abusing the choice of the word "vision" in English to describe the text and event in Matthew 17:9.

when I said I overlooked a possibility, I can say that I can never conceive, even if given a million years, how people can possibly misinterpret that context, I'm agreeing with p4t for this one.

 

[theanointedsinner]

starting a short FAQ

Q: before salvation, how much do we owe God?
A: an unpayable debt

Q: what saves us?
A: faith and grace

Q: what motivates work that pleases God?
A: the new nature that desires to please God, and work out of love for God
and the new nature is unlike the sin nature (ie: greedy)

this FAQ can be extended ...

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Anyone watch the Simpsons tonight? There is a scene where Mr. Burns dies and is standing outside the gates of heaven. He says, "I demand that I be allowed to enter on my own merits!" And immediately he turns into a cinder.

That's about the way it is . . .

 

[dcontroversal]

Peter dismantles your false theory (2 Peter 1:16) as he states they saw this spectacle and event with their own eyes. That, and you're misunderstanding and abusing the choice of the word "vision" in English to describe the text and event in Matthew 17:9.

Exactly what I thought....Peter saw it as a very real experience and goes on to state that we have a more sure word of prophesy that overrides all experiences....

 

[dcontroversal]

Anyone watch the Simpsons tonight? There is a scene where Mr. Burns dies and is standing outside the gates of heaven. He says, "I demand that I be allowed to enter on my own merits!" And immediately he turns into a cinder.

That's about the way it is . . .

HAHAHHAHAHAH exactly.....MANY will say...LORD, LORD have we not DONE.........!! Bad day coming for them....

 

[VCO]

based on what I read from your post, are you saying that, we should pay extra more attention on verbs when Reading the Bible?

Let me explain it to you this way. The Bible in English has only 3 Primary Verb Tenses.

The Bible in GREEK has 6 Primary Verb Tenses.

So it is easy to misinterpret the meaning behind the Verb Tenses.

No, you need to keep on READING THE BIBLE and when there is a question on the exact Verb Tenses, then ask somebody like decon or other Greek Scholars to Explain it to you.

I do not pretend to be a Greek Scholar, I just know enough to get by.

I doubt if you can make sense of this, but here are the Greek Primary Verb Tenses on this site:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/help/greekverbs.cfm

For example the Greek Present Tense, is NOT LIKE the Present Tense in English. It implies an continuous lifestyle of doing that verb.

1 John 2:4 (NKJV)
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That verb keep does not imply perfection, it imply the direction of your lifestyle. You are the one that will continue to keep striving to keep his commandments. When you fail, You go back to 1 John 1:9,

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That word CONFESS is in the Greek Present Tense too. We are the ones that will instantly want to CONFESS Sins to GOD, and it is a LIFESTYLE. We will always want to CONFESS Sins, because it is in our New Born Again Nature to do so.

The GOOD NEWS is as your new born human spirit MATURES, you will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS as you feast on the SPIRITUAL FOOD, the WORD of GOD.

 

[theanointedsinner]

Let me explain it to you this way. The Bible in English has only 3 Primary Verb Tenses.

The Bible in GREEK has 6 Primary Verb Tenses.

So it is easy to misinterpret the meaning behind the Verb Tenses.

No, you need to keep on READING THE BIBLE and when there is a question on the exact Verb Tenses, then ask somebody like decon or other Greek Scholars to Explain it to you.

I do not pretend to be a Greek Scholar, I just know enough to get by.

I doubt if you can make sense of this, but here are the Greek Primary Verb Tenses on this site:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/help/greekverbs.cfm

For example the Greek Present Tense, is NOT LIKE the Present Tense in English. It implies an continuous lifestyle of doing that verb.

1 John 2:4 (NKJV)
4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That verb keep does not imply perfection, it imply the direction of your lifestyle. You are the one that will continue to keep striving to keep his commandments. When you fail, You go back to 1 John 1:9,

1 John 1:9 (NKJV)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That word CONFESS is in the Greek Present Tense too. We are the ones that will instantly want to CONFESS Sins to GOD, and it is a LIFESTYLE. We will always want to CONFESS Sins, because it is in our New Born Again Nature to do so.

The GOOD NEWS is as your new born human spirit MATURES, you will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS as you feast on the SPIRITUAL FOOD, the WORD of GOD.

I'm still not ready to understand the verb tense in greek, and they have weird squiggly alphabets (from that blue letter bible websites) and my head aches trying to understand it, and I never seen words like Aorist Tense

but on second thought, we can always start somewhere, and is what you are suggesting that I can start with (from reading VCO's post) ...


Keep striving toward the direction of God's commandment.
incase if we fail, God gave us the option to confess, and get us back on track
and, reading God's word helps us mature toward godly direction, and sinning less and less will naturally come to you. (which will become second nature)

 

[VCO]

>>> the Son of God’ <<<<?
4-"Genesis sets Christ forth as God"
Jesus is not mentioned in Genesis; only Church Spin says the "Us" is the 'Trinity...

Are you saying you Deny the Doctrine of the TRINITY ? ? ?