Predestination or free wiil.

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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We are in agreement. How does that line up with God predestining EVERYTHING? Every wicked sinful thought deed and act ever commited has been predestined. (according to calvinism)
I do not know if you have determined me to be a Calvinist, even though I have not studied his writings, but I believe the scriptures to teach that God has given man a free will to live his life here on earth as he chooses, but his eternal salvation is by God's grace, without the help of man.
You have certainly put yourself above me. I expect you believe that when i CAME TO God addressing Him as "You are Who You are," and He had pity on my broken heart guiding me to Jesus Christ and filling me with His Holy Spirit, that was false in your esteem.

I know of many who were lost and found by the Father when they turned to Him…...I am sorry you feel this way. When His Spirit entered into me, I believe I was foreknown by Him..……..
It is not my intention to put you down, I believe your deep spiritual feelings when you were converted to change your life and follow God and his teachings. I believe a lot of children of God confuse conversion with being born again. The rebirth is explained in Eph2:5. conversion comes in different stages thereafter and is much more dramatic than the new birth, in that, the new birth, as Jesus explained to Nicodemus in John 3:5-8, The wind bloweth wher it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth, so is every one that is born of the Spiriit. 1 Cor 2:14 says when we are but natural men, that we cannot discern spiritual things, therefore, I believe when you came to God you had already been born of the Spirit.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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Did not the Lord also create evil? Yes, He did (Isaiah 45:7), and He did so for they who would choose the evil over the good.
They who are carnally minded, whose belly (carnal inclinations) is their god (their love), are they whom the Lord has not foreknown.
They who choose to be spiritually inclined, overcoming their carnal inclinations, are they whom the Lord has foreknown, and thus did predestine to be His children.
Though we would choose to believe in being spiritually inclined (loving truth, justice, mercy, etc.), and overcoming our carnal inclinations, we still would need the Lords assistance to do so; and to do so the Lord did predestine us who would choose the good over the evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Did not the Lord also create evil? Yes, He did (Isaiah 45:7), and He did so for they who would choose the evil over the good.
They who are carnally minded, whose belly (carnal inclinations) is their god (their love), are they whom the Lord has not foreknown.
They who choose to be spiritually inclined, overcoming their carnal inclinations, are they whom the Lord has foreknown, and thus did predestine to be His children.
Though we would choose to believe in being spiritually inclined (loving truth, justice, mercy, etc.), and overcoming our carnal inclinations, we still would need the Lords assistance to do so; and to do so the Lord did predestine us who would choose the good over the evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
What is evil as defined by Scripture?

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

God repented of the evil. He repented of the destruction He declared He would do unto them. Evil here is the destruction of Nineveh.
 

luigi

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Dec 6, 2015
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The word actually states that the Lord knows the end from the beginning. The Lord knows how it's going to end and we do too for Scripture tells us. Read the end of Revelation. God has declared the ending and He will be ruling and reigning over all. Amen.
To know the end from the beginning is to see the end from the beginning.
I do not put limits on seeing the future on the One who called into existence the universe (and time) from nothing.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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To know the end from the beginning is to see the end from the beginning.
I do not put limits on seeing the future on the One who called into existence the universe (and time) from nothing.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Right. But we can't add to the word and say that God knows all future decisions before they become knowledge can we? I'm not willing to go outside of Scripture and define God. God has certainly chosen to put limitations on His knowledge when it comes to man, though none of our decisions catch Him off guard because He knows us better than we know ourselves.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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"You do not believe, because you are not of my sheep".
J 10:26

Not:
"You are not my sheep, because you do not believe".
That verse reiterates that which Jackson shared.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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What is evil as defined by Scripture?

Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

God repented of the evil. He repented of the destruction He declared He would do unto them. Evil here is the destruction of Nineveh.
As the whole world and universe is a direct result from the Lords creation; all evil acts that then occur on the earth are a result from the Lords creation. This includes the devil, whom they who choose to be carnally minded have as their god.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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Putting the faith in Christ is not a random act, its based on something.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,


John 6:65
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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As the whole world and universe is a direct result from the Lords creation; all evil acts that then occur on the earth are a result from the Lords creation. This includes the devil, whom they who choose to be carnally minded have as their god.
There's a difference between wickedness and evil. There's a difference between sin and evil. Evil is destruction. Wickedness and sin can cause evil.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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Right. But we can't add to the word and say that God knows all future decisions before they become knowledge can we? I'm not willing to go outside of Scripture and define God. God has certainly chosen to put limitations on His knowledge when it comes to man, though none of our decisions catch Him off guard because He knows us better than we know ourselves.
Of course the Lord knows all future decisions, otherwise His predestining some to become His children would be without our having made the choice to follow Him. This would mean the Lord predestined some to become His children by mere randomness.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Of course the Lord knows all future decisions, otherwise His predestining some to become His children would be without our having made the choice to follow Him. This would mean the Lord predestined some to become His children by mere randomness.
Predestination is to them who are already saved. God has declared that those found in Christ will be part of the future adoption. God does not predestine anyone to be saved, but those who are saved are predestined to receive the redemption. The destination of the believer is the redemption.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Predestinated who...those of us in Christ. Predesinated unto the adoption. What's the adoption? See Romans 8:23.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

The adoption is the future redemption of the body of Christ, those who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and have been placed in Christ. Please allow Scripture to define these terms and not some guy named Calvin.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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So you think you somehow know me, and know what I do or do not do in my life. And think you have the right to judge me?

Dude, you have no clue about me, Those verses have no bearing, because I not only believe those verses, I live those verses out. But of course. Like I politely tried to show you They have no bearing on ANYTHING I said. Because I shared HOW I CAME TO CHRIST, And not what happened AFTER I CAME TO CHRIST.

So take your attacks and assumptions (you know what you do when you assume right? Well you just did that very thing) and find someone who wants to listen to you. You have nothing for me. Because you refuse to listen to a word I say, and i am not the only one, it seems to be a habit of yours.
I have printed and studied your posts since first encountering you EG, along with several other men, so we would know exactly what you preach. For this reason I warn you because if the Bible is the standard to use, then many of your doctrines are from religious man and not from God. It's not about you, it's about what you preach.

Since the Christ warned His Disciples, men who were already given the Spirit of truth, and His Disciples then warned others, who had also already been given the Spirit of truth, about the dangers of "DECEPTION" (Believing something that is not true) I think it is prudent to understand that I too, could be tricked. With this in mind I found where the Christ gave us His Armor for the specific purpose of resisting the "Wiles of the Devil",. The Same Armor He used as a flesh and blood human, not before we have turned to Him, but AFTER we have turned to Him.. So this is why I am so "pro God's Word" as it were.

This whole "Not by Works" thing that you are obsessed about has been fascinating to watch.

You preach "The Law isn't for the "Christian", pretty much the same thing Eve was convinced of. It seems you are preaching the 10 commandments lead us to Christ, then after we find Christ, we don't need the "LAW" anymore.

But then you turn around in the same breath and preach that "Gentiles" are not required to follow the Law to lead them to Christ. That doing so is trying to "Earn" Salvation or "save themselves".

This kind of foolishness is repeated by the religions of the land over and over.

They, and by extension you, preach that the Pharisees were trying to "earn Salvation" by keeping God's Laws.

Yet the entire Law and Prophets, along with EVERY WORD of the Christ, teach the exact opposite. When shown the volumes of scriptures which expose this religious doctrine as false, you deflect, insult and ridicule. The Christ also said this would happen when confronting religious men.

It is these discrepancies in mainstream religious traditions, and by extension your preaching, that I and others have spent a great deal of time showing you and what we got back was ridicule, scorn, insults and name calling. Never an actual discussion of the Word's of God. Just defense and justification of religious tradition. But hasn't that always been the response of religious man to the Word of God when it exposed some error in them? Except those if the faith Chapter, when God's Word exposed an error in them, they accepted the Word, not defend the error.

So I am sure, since you have been convinced, as was Eve, that you are already there, already immortal, and are not even capable of being deceived by the master deceiver, that you will blow off this admonition like you have all others.

And for the most part, I ignore your preaching as I have come to know it to well. But from time to time I will chime in, not for you, but for those who may be reading along.

For me, it's not about you personally EG. You can try and make it all about you, but it's not about you. It's about the Warnings of deception and the Word's God gave us to fight it off. Some "Believe ALL THINGS Written in the scriptures, and some don't.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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There's a difference between wickedness and evil. There's a difference between sin and evil. Evil is destruction. Wickedness and sin can cause evil.
God can send the evil (the devil) to those whose actions are unjust, as would have been the case with the Ninevites, until they repented of their unjust actions, thereby causing the Lord to withdraw from sending the evil their unjust actions deserved. Evil is in opposition to God.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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God can send the evil (the devil) to those whose actions are unjust, as would have been the case with the Ninevites, until they repented of their unjust actions, thereby causing the Lord to withdraw from sending the evil their unjust actions deserved. Evil is in opposition to God.
John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Question: Did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and cry out to Him and in turn, He would not destroy them in forty days as He declared?
 
Oct 7, 2018
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Can anyone here show me where in the Bible is the idea of free wii. Everything about scripture indicates that God knows and plans everything. It makes sense that God plans everything since He knows all.
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"Predestination" is just another term coined by false religion.
Try PROVING it!

God created evil? (Some translations SAY that)
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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Predestination is to them who are already saved.
Your perspective that predestination belongs to them who are already saved nullifies scripture about the Lord being impartial.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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Question: Did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and cry out to Him and in turn, He would not destroy them in forty days as He declared?
Yes, the Lord knew ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and cry out to Him,...etc.
The Lord also knew that when He gave the Israelite's of the Exodus the laws to life, which if they disobeyed would then receive all the curses He described, would in that and in future generations choose the evil over the good.
 
Oct 7, 2018
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Yes, the Lord knew ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and cry out to Him,...etc.
The Lord also knew that when He gave the Israelite's of the Exodus the laws to life, which if they disobeyed would then receive all the curses He described, would in that and in future generations choose the evil over the good.
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So that's why he had Jonah proclaim their doom?
People usually see only what they WANT to see!
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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So that's why he had Jonah proclaim their doom?
People usually see only what they WANT to see!
The Lord had Jonah proclaim their doom, so that they would repent of their unjust actions, which is what they did.
The Lord also give stern warning to the Israelite's to the path they should take, of which some followed, while others did not.
 
Oct 7, 2018
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The Lord had Jonah proclaim their doom, so that they would repent of their unjust actions, which is what they did.
The Lord also give stern warning to the Israelite's to the path they should take, of which some followed, while others did not.
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Everyone has opinion.
Jonah was NOT telling them to repent....he was proclaiming Jehovah's JUDGMENT- which CHANGED when they repented.