Predestination or free wiil.

[eternally-gratefull]

You are in a sad state of mind, if you do not believe that God does not deliver us here on earth when we repent. Repentance is not to gain entrance into heaven, but to gain back our fellowship with God. Eternal salvation by works of man is a false doctrine, and that is what you are upholding, no matter how you disguise it by misinterpreting the scriptures.

Lol. Since every man or woman ever born up until this day has died, and none have lived eternally, Your in a sad state if you think just repenting will deliver you from anything in this world.

Repentance is not a work not something you can boast of, it is somethign which happens. When you change your mind, you stop trying to be your own God, and admit that everything the bible says about you is true, abd everything the bible says about Jesus and what he did on the cross is true

if you do not come to this state of mind, You will NEVER come to faith, and thus you will NEVER be saved, you will remain in unbelief and as jesus said He who does not believe is condemned already..

I am not talking abotu a salvation by works. It is not My work that I have faith, it is Gods work that I HAVE FAITH (john 6) God brings me to repentence if I allow him, and God brings me to faith if I sit and listen and do not hide the truth in unbelief.

Maybe you need to discover the meanings of some words. One might be what a work is. I would start in eph 2: 8 - 9 and also read Romans 4 the first few verses, they explain the defenition of what a work is (something you can boast or take credit ora wage you earn by something you do)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am saying that our faith is not the cause of our eternal salvation. If you attach anything man has to do as a requirement to be saved eternally, it would be , salvation by works.

No one can boast before God because they had Faith in the finished work of Christ,

Think about what your saying man, Think!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen, Jonah continued to say no, Until he finally said yes, But look at the WORK OF GOD in helping Jonah to say yes.


Could jonah take credit, and did he earn the reward of saving the people of Ninevah? No. Because he did not do the work, God did, He finally stopped sying no to god and said yes.

 

[preston39]

Your understanding of the interpretation of the word salvation is the same as mine.

We can be saved (delivered), kept safe and sound while following his commandments here on earth,

That is ......Not biblical.
Notice....ed.........pass tense...finished, sealed in concrete, done, etc.
If that is true then G-d cannot pass judgement on us after death...? I bet He appreciates that version of His salvation offer.
We are ...born again...here on earth.
Saved after G-d proclaims such upon judgement, after death.........

We must keep G-d's word in context to support His intent and meaning.......less some be miss led.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Our Faith in Jesus can save us, but not eternally. If people would learn how to separate the salvation (deliverance) scriptures it would benefit them in harmonizing the scriptures. Anytime you see the words repent, confess, accept, be obedient, believe, come to the knowledge of the truth, etc. , it will be addressed to the disobedient child of God, and not to the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14..

Your either saved or your not saved, there is no inbetween, again think about what you just said, It makes no sense.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

1. I use the NKJV, Not that it matters.

2. The KJV is an INTEPRETATION, it is NOT INSPIRED, It is interpreted by a group of people taken from COPIES of texts which the authors of the KJV considered were copied FROM the actual inspired word of God. (Not to mention. Some were inspired from the latin text and not even from the greek text)

3. It is a word for word translation which the authors thought was the best word tranlation, taken into the english language, But like ALL english texts,it is flawed just on the basis of the flawed language it was translated into (IE the same english word “Love” is used in the tranlation of at least 4 different greek words, all with diffferent meanings and applications) but this is expected in a WORD FOR WORD translation. You have to take the best english WORD to translate what YOU THINK has the closest meaning to bring it into your language, Sadly they also transliterated words, instead of translating them (ie there was no english word for Baptiso. So they transliterated it to baptise. Which had NO ENGLISH defenition by itself. Also Christ, A translated of the greek word Christos, which is the greek translation of the hebrew word messiah. So again, in this aspect as with amhy other words, it is a flawed translation.

4. As I already proved, the word “of” or “in” s not even in the origional text it is the particular tranlators OPINION of what it should be, so NO ONE can prove which one is right, you have to use context WHich I already showed, the context is mans works vs mand faith, Gods faith has nothing to do with it.



So your so special. God died for you, but he did not die for other people.

Thats a good way to puff yourself up man, Forgive me if I refuse to do such a thing.

So, you are telling me that any scripture that I give you from the KJV, you will reject as untrue and decide what you want it to say. How convenient to you to, supposedly, prove your eternal salvation by man's works theory. God did not die for all mankind, but sense you do not consider the KJV as true, you would just ignore John 6.

 

[JaumeJ]

We don't have any way of knowing God's purpose for all this. What we do know is that humans started out in a good situation but continually turned away. Even from Noah who knew God; his sons strayed away and wondered off. They didn't have to they choose to. Have you considered Ham's sin? From the ark to incestuous rape as if the flood and ark and saving the family and animals in a bodacious way never happened. As if he had never watched his father for years build an ark in faith and then enter into it and the flood occur and come through the other side. Every human on Earth is directly connected to this man Noah who knew God, yet we have so much sin and idolatry and evil.

We absolutely do know enough as to what God's "motivations" are. towards us.

For God so loved the worled He gave His Only Son for me, for all who will believe He loves them this much.

Do you have God on trial? I love the One Who loved me first, and not because I am good, because He is good and I know this...........so do all who have experienced his Love in the HOly Spirit .

 

[Locoponydirtman]

That don't answer why he created humans knowing we we're gonna foul it up.
You just described why he sent Christ.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We must keep G-d's word in context to support His intent and meaning.......less some be miss led.

I am assuming that you do consider the KJV not to be falsely interpreted. as eternally - grateful does. God's elect are judged as they live their lives here on earth, by his chastening and are not judged at the last day. The wicked (non elect) are not chastened here on earth, but are judged at the last day. In a hurry now, will look up the scriptures and give to you later.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That don't answer why he created humans knowing we we're gonna foul it up.
You just described why he sent Christ.

When you try to say why God does or does not do, we are just guessing. My guess is that God wanted people to praise and worship him and that is why he choose a people before the foundation of the world and had his Son to cleans them.

 

[Chester]

You do not understad.

It is not that they do not have free will, It is that they would never think of such a thing.

You can’t be touched by God, Born again, Adopted as a son, Forgiven all you have ever done, united with Christ, see how sinful and deserving of hell you really are. Be chastened By God himself when you have done wrong, have your thinking changed from self centered to Christ centered, have his word opened up to you so you understand, (I have just touched on the many things God gives an adopted child the moment they are saved) Then all of a sudden say you know what? I do not believe this nonsense of Jesus and the cross anymore. He did not die for my sins, he is not even real.

Maybe you think they can? In this case, I would just wonder what reasoning....

Exactly! I do think they "can" . . . I believe that I as a believer has as much free moral choice as an unbeliever. Will they? I don't know! but can they (can I) choose to deny Christ? I have the moral capability to do that.

 

[Jackson123]

It depends on what salvation you are referring to. Salvation in the Greek means "a deliverance". Our faith in Jesus will save (deliver) us from a lack of knowledge as we live here on earth, but it will not deliver us eternally, otherwise it would make "our faith" the reason we are saved eternally. Anytime you place a requirement upon man to achieve eternal salvation, it would be salvation by the works of man. So there is a deliverance (salvation) here on earth and there is a deliverance (salvation) eternally. All scriptures must harmonize. If a man has spiritual faith he has already been regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and he Will have faith, because faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5). The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 does not and cannot have spiritual faith. When the natural man (as we all were at one time) is regenerated then he has spiritual faith. If this makes sense to you, or if it does not make sense, let me hear from you. You are correct, my eternal salvation was not because of my faith.

If I understand correctly you believe there are 2 kind of salvation

1. Salvation on earth

2. Eternal salvation.

You believe salvation on earth need our faith, but eternal salvation do not need our faith. Am I correct?

Base on what you believe, eternal salvation do not need our faith, is that mean Islam that do not have faith in Jesus can be have eternal salvation? Give me a verse.

Can you explain more about what is salvation on earth and give me a verse about what is salvation on earth?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Yes, but if you will compare that scripture with Gal 2:16 you will find that the "THROUGH FAITH" in Eph is not "YOUR FAITH" but "CHRIST'S FAITH", unless you are using a version of the bible that has changed the little word "OF" to "IN' in Gal 2:16. Making it man's faith instead of Christ's faith. All scriptures prove themselves. That is the reason in Ephesians it says "and that not of yourselves".

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The words "faith of Jesus Christ" are translated from the Greek words pisteōs Christou Iēsou.

The word "of" was added by the translators.

The NIV, NLT, ESV, ASV, ERV all render the words pisteōs Christou Iēsou as "faith in Jesus Christ".

 

[RDK]

While many will say all people have free will, they will then say that for the Christian, he no longer has the free choice to choose to deny Christ.

If someone believes that it is they who make their own choice for God should consider Romans 9-9 to the end of the chapter. This chapter is dealing with mans questions as how could it be fair that God has made His choices beforehand-meaning Gods choosing who He will have. All the while people still think that their own choice is the most important thing. Hey, argue with Paul over this subject. I didn't invent this. There are dozens more of these kinds of things that I have not even referenced.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Amen, Jonah continued to say no, Until he finally said yes, But look at the WORK OF GOD in helping Jonah to say yes.


Could jonah take credit, and did he earn the reward of saving the people of Ninevah? No. Because he did not do the work, God did, He finally stopped sying no to god and said yes.

Jonah was a preacher, not just a natural man who could not discern spiritual things. You are trying to make the natural man, before he is regenerated, able to say and understand and do spiritual things, That does not harmonize.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The wicked (non elect) are not chastened here on earth, but are judged at the last day.

Sodom and Gomorrah was not God's judgment on "wicked (non elect)"???

According to Gen 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

Read Acts 12 and see what happened to Herod (vs 23 - And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost).

God judges the wicked in their lifetime on earth and they reap consequences for their behavior in rejecting God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, you are telling me that any scripture that I give you from the KJV, you will reject as untrue and decide what you want it to say.

I should have known better, same tactic used by most in your line of thinking, If you can not get them to see your view. Just attack them and make them look bad.

I never said such a thing
Never insinuated it
I said NO MATTER WHAT VERSION YOU USE, you sometimes have to dig deeper because they all make mistakes
I already proved to you the interpretation you used was faulty by the context itself.

But its all good That fact you are not making false inuendo and personal attacks shows me I can place you with the many before you who have tried to have this discusiion as people who are untrustworthy. And not really worth the time to take to try to explain things.

How convenient to you to, supposedly, prove your eternal salvation by man's works theory. God did not die for all mankind, but sense you do not consider the KJV as true, you would just ignore John 6.

I do not teach salvation by works dude. Get off your high horse and stop with your nonsense, Now you have falsly accused me, and just further hurt yourself.

John 6 does not suppot your THEORY any more than romans 9 does KJV or not. Your not talking to a person who has not studied this in great length, And as long as you try to continue to talk to me in this tone, I do not think we have anythign further to say. You go ahead and puff yourself up as specially chosen by God. I will continue to be the tax collector on my knees crying out to Jesus to continue to help me grow in him

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Exactly! I do think they "can" . . . I believe that I as a believer has as much free moral choice as an unbeliever. Will they? I don't know! but can they (can I) choose to deny Christ? I have the moral capability to do that.

I never said you did not

But if you do, I will consider you never have come to christ in the first pace. Like John said, They went out from us, but they were never of us.

You do not walk away and stop havign faith in someone who NEVER LETS YOU DOWN, unless you NEVER HAD FAITH TO BEGIN WITH

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jonah was a preacher, not just a natural man who could not discern spiritual things. You are trying to make the natural man, before he is regenerated, able to say and understand and do spiritual things, That does not harmonize.

Lol. So this is your argument? What happen to we will always do what God chose us to do we have no free will.

Jonah was rejecting God he refused to do what God said, God had to lead him down the path to repent and do what God said.

This happened to me, it is how I cam to Gods truth, God led me all the way. And put roadblocks in my way when I was trying to do it other ways.

Thats right though, You were so secial.God just chose you and FORCED you to believe.

yeah, whatever

 

[NoNameMcgee]

God not only predestined us to have free will, but also predestined He will not lose one of His own😆