Not By Works
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If there was one known sin that one would think would damn an apostle to hell for doing then it would be this. Yet the concept of losing our salvation isn't really a thing in the scriptures outside of a few choice interpretations of a handful of verses taken out of their contexts. Jesus anticipated Peter's denials, yet the Lord willed to restore him when all was said and done. That's a bit strange if we're to believe that salvation is something that can be lost. Unless one believes we step in and out of salvation like a slot machine based on our deeds every other hour, which of course, is a mockery to the grace and glory of a redeeming God.
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I hear the sound of "hopelessly Lost"
Romans8:29-31
29) For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30) And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 31) What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Romans8:29-31
29) For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30) And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 31) What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
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You always reject what James states. Faith without works is dead. That is the relationship between faith and works. Works doesn't save but also faith without works will not save as well. The person claiming faith and has no works is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Jesus stated by their fruits (works) you shall know them. I go with Jesus on this subject.
You shouldn't base your soteriological view on a handful of verses when one looks to the gospel of John, the gospel that was addressed to unbelieving, unsaved people, that has nearly 100 references to faith and absolutely nothing else being the condition to receiving salvation. If you want the gospel of John to fit with your interpretation of James then verses like John 3:16 can't be read at face value in its simplicity.
I have a better passage. John 6:28-29
Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent".
I have a better passage. John 6:28-29
Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent".
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E
You know Endoscopy, all you need to do is ASSOCIATE those Works that doesn't save, with GOD'S LOVE IN US, WILL produce Good Works and Obedience because you LOVE HIM; and then I could agree with you totally. Yes, HE SAVED US TOTALLY as a FREE GIFT OF GRACE, and AFTER we are SAVED, GOD'S LOVE in us, Rom 5:5, will produce a Harvest of Good Works and Obedience. AMEN.
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All of scripture is given by God. Are you saying the words of Jesus to look at the works (fruit) to see what a person is should be ignored. Remember he was talking about wolves in sheep's clothing. In other words a secular person masquerading as a Christian. Today fake ministers have taken over denominations. Gary North wrote the book Crossed Fingers documenting the take over of Presbyterian USA in 1932 by secular ministers in order to have access to the church funds. The last true minister in control of some church funds, a Reverend Mechan, was defrocked to remove him from the mission money. These are the wolves in sheep's clothing we are to look to their fruits (works). As Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. As I stated before at a special invitation evening service with refreshments being served a man from a Lutheran church heard the gospel message for the first time. That man testified to the fruits of the minister of that church. Thus proving he was a wolf in sheep's clothing. The fruit of a secular minister is never preaching the gospel message. By their fruits you shall know them. I stand by that statement of Jesus. The fruit of a Christian minister is always preaching the gospel. The fruit of a secular minister is never preaching the gospel message.
How often does your minister preach the gospel message? Mine gets it in every sermon. He talks about some issue but always brings in the gospel message. He never knows when an unsaved person listening will be open to accept Jesus. This at 73 and attending church always is what I have experienced in the churches I have attended.
Aren't you the KISS man or is it somone else?[/QUOTE]
I saw nothing in your scripture references that disputed what the creeds say. I brought up the creeds because of the continual attack on them by some ignoring in many gospel preaching churches they are recited by the congregation in the preliminary part of the service. That is where I learned the Apostles Creed. In a RCA Church. The gospel message was brought into the sermon every time. So again where are the scriptures refuting any Creed as not conforming to the Bible. Other gospel preaching denominations use the other creeds. Refute them or shut up about them. Creeds are used to define what a Christian must believe and churches having the congregation recite them use it to reinforce the gospel message.[/QUOTE]
Looks like you are responding to a post I never made.
I asked if you were the KISS man.
As for the rest of it I have no idea what's happened
I saw nothing in your scripture references that disputed what the creeds say. I brought up the creeds because of the continual attack on them by some ignoring in many gospel preaching churches they are recited by the congregation in the preliminary part of the service. That is where I learned the Apostles Creed. In a RCA Church. The gospel message was brought into the sermon every time. So again where are the scriptures refuting any Creed as not conforming to the Bible. Other gospel preaching denominations use the other creeds. Refute them or shut up about them. Creeds are used to define what a Christian must believe and churches having the congregation recite them use it to reinforce the gospel message.[/QUOTE]
Looks like you are responding to a post I never made.
I asked if you were the KISS man.
As for the rest of it I have no idea what's happened
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Salvation is gained/received by/through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9).
Faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Following Jesus is the evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith. Faith is not defined as works.
There is a difference between God's will for us to BECOME saved: John 6:40 - For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
AND...
God's will for us AFTER we have been saved: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous before God, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:22, faith was "perfected" by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
Faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Following Jesus is the evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith. Faith is not defined as works.
There is a difference between God's will for us to BECOME saved: John 6:40 - For My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
AND...
God's will for us AFTER we have been saved: 1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous before God, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:22, faith was "perfected" by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
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This parable if often quoted by works-salvationists who try to teach there are believers/Christians who do absolutely nothing and will not be saved, while boasting about how much THEY do. 
In this parable, the talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.
The fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked/worthless" and "slothful/lazy" and an "unprofitable" servant who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was NOT A TRUE disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted.
This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a hard man, reaping where he did not sow and gathering where he scattered no seed. This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Israelites were referred to by God as "My servant whom I have chosen" (Isaiah 43:10) even though not all of the Israelites were saved.
In this parable, the talents represent monetary value and are distributed according to ability (vs. 15). The requirement is to invest in Christ. The first two servants deposited their money with the bankers (Matthew 25:27) but the third servant buried his money in the ground (vs. 25). The third servant had been given abilities and the opportunity to believe and bear fruit in accordance, but had chosen to reject it.
The fact that the latter man in this parable is called "wicked/worthless" and "slothful/lazy" and an "unprofitable" servant who is cast out into outer darkness, certainly indicates that he was NOT A TRUE disciple of the master. The idea of this illustrative parable is that all true believers will produce fruit in varying degress. All believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful (Matthew 13:23). Those who produce no results at all are not truly converted.
This man's characterization of the master maligns him as a hard man, reaping where he did not sow and gathering where he scattered no seed. This slothful so-called servant does not represent a genuine believer, for it is obvious that this man had no true knowledge of the master. Two of these servants were children of God, but not the third. Children of God are not cast out into outer darkness. The fact that this man is called a "servant" does not mean necessarily that he is saved. The Israelites were referred to by God as "My servant whom I have chosen" (Isaiah 43:10) even though not all of the Israelites were saved.
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