Sabbath

[Dan_473]

virtually everything this man says is wrong.

"good teacher" -- if He is good, He is not 'rabbi' but He is God.
"what must i do to inherit?" -- inheritance is by birth, not by works. eternal life is neither by works or by heritage, but by grace through faith.
"i have kept all these from my youth" -- really? has this guy heard the sermon on the mount?

one thing he gets right, though he doesn't say it but rather implies it by what he says, is knowing that by keeping the commandments of the Law he has not done enough to merit life. he says he has kept them from his youth, but he says this in the context of asking Christ what is lacking: he knows the righteousness that is in the Law is insufficient. it is at the time that he says this, "I have kept" that the scripture says, Jesus looked on him, loving him.
did He love him because he said he had kept these commandments? or because having said this, he made clear that he understood the keeping of commandments is not the way to life?

he is asking for a commandment to do which will result in life. Jesus says he lacks one thing, and directs him to do something that is not in the Law, which goes far beyond the written commandments. effectively, He tells him, if he wants to receive life by what he does, he must surpass what is written in the Law, and follow Him. that eternal life is not found in the commandments ((in re: Galatians 3:21))

Yes, the Rich Young Ruler does get several things wrong! That's a good way to look at it!

I see to that the woman at the well, the Samaritan woman asks Jesus for Living Water. This is something Jesus suggests. He gives her a very different answer.

 

[Shamah]

Possibly you missed my question:

Actually, I think the words in Exodus 20 relate specifically to the Covenant that God made with Israel.

Question... What is commonly called the "New Covenant" was given to Israyl, yet you believe (as I do) Gentiles have a part in that right?

Jeremiah 31:31-40,31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a new/chadash/renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah, (Heb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17) "32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthened their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. 33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people."34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”"35 Thus said יהוה, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar – יהוה of hosts is His Name:"36 “If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”"37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה."38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate."

Actually, I think the words in Exodus 20 relate specifically to the Covenant that God made with Israel.

Also the Sabbath was for Gentiles also, but naysayer ignore this passage:

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

 

[Dan_473]

Well that is partly a false view, because the Levite priesthood is no more, so there is no need of a Temple or a Tent of Meeting, instead, anything that would have been done there we now go to the High Priest, Yahshua in prayer:

Hebrews 7:24-25,"but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to יהוה through Him, ever living to make intercession for them."

None of us are perfect but it is possible to live a life inside His commands, that is why John said this:

1 John 1:8-10, “If we say that we have no sin, we are misleading ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is trustworthy and righteous to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.”

1 John 2:3-6, "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of Yah is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

The temple or the tent were just examples. We could also say that there are no courts, or groups of Elders sitting at the Gate of the Cities that we can take a rebellious child to to have them stoned.

But, if the coming of Jesus and his taking on the role of high priest changes how we keep the law, that would be my point exactly!

That's what I'm saying, now that Jesus is high priest, we fulfill the entire law, which I'm starting to think is the book of the law, by loving our neighbor as ourselves, bearing one another's burdens.

 

[Shamah]

The temple or the tent were just examples. We could also say that there are no courts, or groups of Elders sitting at the Gate of the Cities that we can take a rebellious child to to have them stoned.

But, if the coming of Jesus and his taking on the role of high priest changes how we keep the law, that would be my point exactly!

That's what I'm saying, now that Jesus is high priest, we fulfill the entire law, which I'm starting to think is the book of the law, by loving our neighbor as ourselves, bearing one another's burdens.

I agree about walking in love is the intent of the Law.... But can you transgress any of the 10 COmmandments (or any of the 618 that deal with YHWH or our fellow humans) and still be loving?

 

[Dan_473]

Question... What is commonly called the "New Covenant" was given to Israyl, yet you believe (as I do) Gentiles have a part in that right?

Jeremiah 31:31-40,31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a new/chadash/renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah, (Heb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17) "32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthened their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. 33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people."34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”"35 Thus said יהוה, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar – יהוה of hosts is His Name:"36 “If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”"37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה."38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate."



Also the Sabbath was for Gentiles also, but naysayer ignore this passage:

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

I'll be honest, I'm not completely sure if the Covenant in Jeremiah 31, the New Covenant is the same as what Jesus is talking about when he says this is the New Covenant in my blood. But I think it probably is.

Now, the old Covenant was made with Israel at Sinai, at least one of the covenants in the Old Testament is. The New Covenant May well be made with Israel, and the Gentiles are grafted in.

But I think the key would be then, that the Gentiles aren't grafted into the old Covenant.

 

[Dan_473]

Question... What is commonly called the "New Covenant" was given to Israyl, yet you believe (as I do) Gentiles have a part in that right?

Jeremiah 31:31-40,31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a new/chadash/renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah, (Heb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17) "32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthened their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. 33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people."34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”"35 Thus said יהוה, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar – יהוה of hosts is His Name:"36 “If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”"37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה."38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate."



Also the Sabbath was for Gentiles also, but naysayer ignore this passage:

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Isaiah 56 does indeed talk about Gentiles who join themselves to is real and keep the Sabbath.

But I'm not sure if that's the same as the grafting in that Paul talks about in Romans 10 or 11 is it.

I don't think of myself as joining the house of Israel, and if the wording is important in the scripture that you quoted I certainly don't think of it being something that I do on my own initiative as it sounds like Isaiah is talking about.

I think the grafting in is something that God does. So the idea of joined himself or herself sounds different.

 

[Dan_473]

Not many at all.
Mark 12:30-31
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”




“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” 28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live."
Berean Study Bible · Download

I agree, and I like how Jesus sums up the law and the prophets in the Sermon on the Mount. He says that the law and the prophets is basically treating other people like you want to be treated!

 

[Shamah]

I'll be honest, I'm not completely sure if the Covenant in Jeremiah 31, the New Covenant is the same as what Jesus is talking about when he says this is the New Covenant in my blood. But I think it probably is.

Now, the old Covenant was made with Israel at Sinai, at least one of the covenants in the Old Testament is. The New Covenant May well be made with Israel, and the Gentiles are grafted in.

But I think the key would be then, that the Gentiles aren't grafted into the old Covenant.

Hmm, interesting. If thats your take then ok, but I have a question about that view...

So even though it is quoted in Hebrews verbatim as being the Covenant in Yahshua's blood you dont know if it's the "new Covenant"?

Hebrews 10:14-17, "14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being set apart."15 And the Set-apart Spirit also witnesses to us, for after having said before,"16 “This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,” (Jer 31:33) 17 and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” Jer 31:34."

SO even though it quoted and explained as the Covenant ratified in Yahshua's blood you are not sure?

It is made very very clear:

Hebrews 10:19-21,19 So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of יהושע,"20 by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,"21 and having a High Priest over the House of Elohim,"

 

[Dan_473]

Sheeze Dan! A barrage.

I'm trying a new technique, to try to make it easier on my shoulders when spending time on the forums.

I break down long questions, and answer them bit by bit. If I had a desktop, I would use the quote tags. But, this is the way God has provided for now.

Also, I'm using Google typing., So if something comes out strange, see if it makes sense phonetically!

If all else fails, just put me on ignore. I won't be offended!

 

[Shamah]

Isaiah 56 does indeed talk about Gentiles who join themselves to is real and keep the Sabbath.

But I'm not sure if that's the same as the grafting in that Paul talks about in Romans 10 or 11 is it.

I don't think of myself as joining the house of Israel, and if the wording is important in the scripture that you quoted I certainly don't think of it being something that I do on my own initiative as it sounds like Isaiah is talking about.

I think the grafting in is something that God does. So the idea of joined himself or herself sounds different.

Fair enough, however there are more OT passages that support this idea... They say one Law for native and non-native follower of YHWH...

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

add in Isaiah 56:1-7 and it is clear IMO...

Isaiah 56:1-7,, “...And let not the son of the foreigner who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’...Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer...for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

 

[Dan_473]

Everything has meaning in parables and Judaism. Which is largely a faith clad in secret using numbers and words as cloaks for deeper meaning. Necessary in times of persecution.
The right hand means something too. It is symbolic.
Hear oh Israel our God, our God is one.

What's the deeper meaning of Psalm 110 in your view?

 

[Dan_473]

Possibly you missed my question:



Question... What is commonly called the "New Covenant" was given to Israyl, yet you believe (as I do) Gentiles have a part in that right?

Jeremiah 31:31-40,31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a new/chadash/renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah, (Heb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17) "32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthened their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. 33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people."34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”"35 Thus said יהוה, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar – יהוה of hosts is His Name:"36 “If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”"37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה."38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate."



Also the Sabbath was for Gentiles also, but naysayer ignore this passage:

Isaiah 56:1-7, “Thus said יהוה, “Guard right-ruling, and do righteousness, for near is My deliverance to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who becomes strong in it, guarding the Sabbath lest he profane it, and guarding his hand from doing any evil. And let not the son of the gentile who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’ nor let the eunuch say, ‘Look I am a dry tree.’ For thus said יהוה, “To the eunuchs who guard My Sabbaths, and have chosen what pleases Me, and are holding onto My covenant: to them I shall give in My house and within My walls a place and a name better than that of sons and daughters – I give them an everlasting name that is not cut off. Also the sons of the gentile who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer. Their ascending offerings and their sacrifices are accepted on My altar, for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

I believe I answered it, let me know if you don't come across my answer.

And of course, you're always welcome to ask again!

 

[Dan_473]

I agree about walking in love is the intent of the Law.... But can you transgress any of the 10 COmmandments (or any of the 618 that deal with YHWH or our fellow humans) and still be loving?

Of course! I think that's the whole point behind Jesus healing on the Sabbath. He says it's lawful to do good on the Sabbath, the implication is even if it involves physical labor there by breaking the Sabbath.

I'm also thinking of the story it's either Elijah or someone similar who is asked for basically an Indulgence from someone who wants to be able to go into the Temple of the false god with his master. I think bauling down is in there somewhere, but I could be wrong.

And then finally I'm reminded of a story I read in the book what it is like to go to war. The Marines in Vietnam in a particular situation had taken over a bunker from the Viet Cong and there was a severely wounded VC Soldier left behind. Now, the standard procedure was for the Marines to leave a few behind and call in a medical helicopter to evacuate the wounded man. However, this would likely mean death for the Marines who stayed behind, because likely the VC would counter attack. Also the man would likely die within a few hours with or without medical attention. Also the wounded man was writhing in pain.

After going off by himself for a few minutes, the Marine corpsman returned and shot the wounded man. I would say he was acting out of love for all concerned. But technically, it was murder!

 

[Lillywolf]

What's the deeper meaning of Psalm 110 in your view?

Because it uses Adonai says to my Lord, and is the song of king David, I think it is David speaking as one who is indwelt with the guiding spirit of Adonai or God the Father. That in effect the Lord is guiding from David's Hamesh, meaning five. Symbolic of the five fingers on a human hand, and the five books of Torah. Right hand is also Yamin, or "right". (Jewish Encyclopedia Right & Left)
The right side of things is recognized in many ways as better than the left. The south and north sides of the earth are distinguished as "yamin" (right) and "sem'ol' (left; Job xxiii. 9), the right being the sunnier, brighter side, and the left the bleak and dark side, ill-omened and unlucky, where evil generates. "Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land" (Jer. i. 14)


Psalm 110 https://www.biblestudytools.com/cjb/psalms/110.html
A psalm of David: ADONAI says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."

2 ADONAI will send your powerful scepter out from Tziyon, so that you will rule over your enemies around you.

3 On the day your forces mobilize, your people willingly offer themselves in holy splendors from the womb of the dawn; the dew of your youth is yours.

4 ADONAI has sworn it, and he will never retract -"You are a cohen forever, to be compared with Malki-Tzedek."

5 Adonai at your right hand will shatter kings on the day of his anger.

6 He will pass judgment among the nations, filling it with dead bodies; he will shatter heads throughout an extensive territory.

7 He will drink from a stream as he goes on his way; therefore he will hold his head high.


In other words, I think it is saying God is at David's right hand leading him against the enemies of both David and the Father and in the Father's service.

 

[Dan_473]

Hmm, interesting. If thats your take then ok, but I have a question about that view...

So even though it is quoted in Hebrews verbatim as being the Covenant in Yahshua's blood you dont know if it's the "new Covenant"?

Hebrews 10:14-17, "14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being set apart."15 And the Set-apart Spirit also witnesses to us, for after having said before,"16 “This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them,” (Jer 31:33) 17 and, “Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more.” Jer 31:34."

SO even though it quoted and explained as the Covenant ratified in Yahshua's blood you are not sure?

It is made very very clear:

Hebrews 10:19-21,19 So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of יהושע,"20 by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,"21 and having a High Priest over the House of Elohim,"

As I said, it probably is. You certainly make a good case there.

The things that give me pause are that a person can be under more than one Covenant at a time, so under the old Covenant the Israelites were actually under more than one Covenant.

So is the Covenant that Jesus is referring to when he says this is the New Covenant in my blood is that the same one that Jeremiah is talking about? The other thing that gives me pause is isn't it in Jeremiah that he says he makes the Covenant with the house of Israel?

 

[Shamah]

Of course! I think that's the whole point behind Jesus healing on the Sabbath. He says it's lawful to do good on the Sabbath, the implication is even if it involves physical labor there by breaking the Sabbath.

I'm also thinking of the story it's either Elijah or someone similar who is asked for basically an Indulgence from someone who wants to be able to go into the Temple of the false god with his master. I think bauling down is in there somewhere, but I could be wrong.

And then finally I'm reminded of a story I read in the book what it is like to go to war. The Marines in Vietnam in a particular situation had taken over a bunker from the Viet Cong and there was a severely wounded VC Soldier left behind. Now, the standard procedure was for the Marines to leave a few behind and call in a medical helicopter to evacuate the wounded man. However, this would likely mean death for the Marines who stayed behind, because likely the VC would counter attack. Also the man would likely die within a few hours with or without medical attention. Also the wounded man was writhing in pain.

After going off by himself for a few minutes, the Marine corpsman returned and shot the wounded man. I would say he was acting out of love for all concerned. But technically, it was murder!

Do you see a difference between what Yahshua did on the Sabbath (Yah's work and will) and what the man who gather sticks or the merchants bringing goods into Jerusalem to sell (their own work and will)?

As Isaiah 58 further explains the 4th Commandment...

Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

To me this is the key that unlocks understanding of the 4th Commandments true intent as taught by the Messiah... Ignoring this leads to error and false views concerning the pharisees man made laws, the Commandmets and what Yahshua actually did on the Sabbath.

 

[Dan_473]

Fair enough, however there are more OT passages that support this idea... They say one Law for native and non-native follower of YHWH...

Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you.”

Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”

add in Isaiah 56:1-7 and it is clear IMO...

Isaiah 56:1-7,, “...And let not the son of the foreigner who has joined himself to יהוה speak, saying, ‘יהוה has certainly separated me from His people,’...Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to יהוה, to serve Him, and to love the Name of יהוה, to be His servants, all who guard the Sabbath, and not profane it, and are holding onto My covenant, them I shall bring to My set-apart mountain, and let them rejoice in My house of prayer...for My house is called a house of prayer for all the peoples.”

Yes, one law for Israel and the stranger who lives among them. This of course, being in the old Covenant. But we are not strangers. That could be a factor.

I agree that God's house was to be a house of prayer for All Peoples. That house is no longer around. we know that it is neither on this mountain or that mountain that we need to pray and seek God.

 

[Dan_473]

Because it uses Adonai says to my Lord, and is the song of king David, I think it is David speaking as one who is indwelt with the guiding spirit of Adonai or God the Father. That in effect the Lord is guiding from David's Hamesh, meaning five. Symbolic of the five fingers on a human hand, and the five books of Torah. Right hand is also Yamin, or "right". (Jewish Encyclopedia Right & Left)
The right side of things is recognized in many ways as better than the left. The south and north sides of the earth are distinguished as "yamin" (right) and "sem'ol' (left; Job xxiii. 9), the right being the sunnier, brighter side, and the left the bleak and dark side, ill-omened and unlucky, where evil generates. "Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land" (Jer. i. 14)


Psalm 110 https://www.biblestudytools.com/cjb/psalms/110.html
A psalm of David: ADONAI says to my Lord, "Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool."

2 ADONAI will send your powerful scepter out from Tziyon, so that you will rule over your enemies around you.

3 On the day your forces mobilize, your people willingly offer themselves in holy splendors from the womb of the dawn; the dew of your youth is yours.

4 ADONAI has sworn it, and he will never retract -"You are a cohen forever, to be compared with Malki-Tzedek."

5 Adonai at your right hand will shatter kings on the day of his anger.

6 He will pass judgment among the nations, filling it with dead bodies; he will shatter heads throughout an extensive territory.

7 He will drink from a stream as he goes on his way; therefore he will hold his head high.


In other words, I think it is saying God is at David's right hand leading him against the enemies of both David and the Father and in the Father's service.

Looks like we're working with a different text for Psalm 110. The one that the King James is based on, and I think most translations today says the Lord, as in Divine name, says to my Lord as in master.

 

[posthuman]

Ohh thats what He is says? the "made for man" means abolished?

that is not what i said at all.

“Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread — which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the sabbath and yet are innocent?"​

(Matthew 12:3-5)​

​

“Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”​

(Mark 2:25-26)​

​

“Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”​

(Luke 6:3-4)​

how about you take this context and explain what it means, "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath" --- because these things are what He said when He declared it.
it is better to arrive at a conclusion for yourself then to have someone tell you.

 

[Dan_473]

Do you see a difference between what Yahshua did on the Sabbath (Yah's work and will) and what the man who gather sticks or the merchants bringing goods into Jerusalem to sell (their own work and will)?

As Isaiah 58 further explains the 4th Commandment...

Isaiah 58:11-14, "YHWH will guide you continually, and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat; (strengthen), your bones. You will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. And those of you will rebuild the old waste places; you will raise up the foundations of many generations; and you will be called the Repairer of the Breach, the Restorer of Streets to Dwell In; If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of YHWH honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in YHWH; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father, for the mouth of YHWH has spoken it."

To me this is the key that unlocks understanding of the 4th Commandments true intent as taught by the Messiah... Ignoring this leads to error and false views concerning the pharisees man made laws, the Commandmets and what Yahshua actually did on the Sabbath.

I believe your question was can you love your neighbor and still end up breaking one of the Ten Commandments, and I understood that to mean the letter of The Commandments.

So in healing on the Sabbath, Jesus equates that with the priests who Minister on the Sabbath, thus breaking the letter of the law.

We don't know why the man was gathering sticks on the Sabbath. It doesn't say if he was doing it for himself, or to help a poor Widow.

But certainly, go with the intent of the law! In my view, the intent of the Sabbath is to teach us to trust in God, that we don't have to work every waking moment. And of course the bigger picture, that salvation, rest, is not attained through our own labors.