Is Prosperity For The Present Church?

[7seasrekeyed]

Well I believe the words increase and multiply has to do with abundance.


And like you rightly said, the Lord gives if conditions. Suppose we fulfill the if conditions, do you still think its wrong for us to believe God for the increase and multiplication he promised with his own mouth?

you must have done a word search to verify what you were 'looking' for

why would we fulfill conditions for the Jews a few thousand years ago?

what I think, is that WOF keeps getting wackier and you are grasping a little teeny weeny straws

God was not even talking to you when those verse were written...unless you are about 3000 years old and Jewish

all scripture is given, but people need to learn to stop taking verses out of context and making a doctrine out of them

that's what I think

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Concerning what is eternal.

One of the scriptures you just quoted speaks of laying treasures in heaven. Do you think if I lay enough financial or material treasures in heaven from the earth now, that it won't be eternal?

Of course, you will agree with me that I need to have the treasures here on earth first, before laying them in heaven.

Otherwise, if I don't have any treasures on earth now, which one will I lay in heaven from here?

no so far i havent agreed with anything ive seen from you.....

we dont TAKE treasure from earth <- things that perish

AS our treasure in heaven <- does not perish



you seem very confused and focused on "what am i gonna get?"


on top of that you play many word games... and have ignored and/or disputed truth here


it is hard for me to tell if youre a troll

or if you actually believe these things you are saying

 

[emekrus]

no so far i havent agreed with anything ive seen from you.....

we dont TAKE treasure from earth <- things that perish

AS our treasure in heaven <- does not perish



you seem very confused and focused on "what am i gonna get?"


on top of that you play many word games... and have ignored and/or disputed truth here


it is hard for me to tell if youre a troll

or if you actually believe these things you are saying

Whatever you say apart from scriptures we are discussing here, I'll take as a school of thought.

The only thing I am interested in here is scriptural points. If you know me a little, you will know I am not the emotional type.

I don't fight falsehood with emotional fits. I like fighting falsehood with the truth.

So let's get back to the scriptural discussion. Please, I wanted to know your prescriptions on how we lay up treasures in heaven.

While you are explaining that, remember, the alms of Cornelius came up as a memorial before God.

 

[emekrus]

you must have done a word search to verify what you were 'looking' for

why would we fulfill conditions for the Jews a few thousand years ago?

what I think, is that WOF keeps getting wackier and you are grasping a little teeny weeny straws

God was not even talking to you when those verse were written...unless you are about 3000 years old and Jewish

all scripture is given, but people need to learn to stop taking verses out of context and making a doctrine out of them

that's what I think

Now we come back to the same old question...

If you honestly believe that the promise is only for the Jews. How come you believe, believers already have their hearts changed and the Holy Spirit put in them as contained in the text under consideration? On what grounds should we accept some and leave some?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Whatever you say apart from scriptures we are discussing here, I'll take as a school of thought.

The only thing I am interested in here is scriptural points. If you know me a little, you will know I am not the emotional type.

I don't fight falsehood with emotional fits. I like fighting falsehood with the truth.

So let's get back to the scriptural discussion. Please, I wanted to know your prescriptions on how we lay up treasures in heaven.

While you are explaining that, remember, the alms of Cornelius came up as a memorial before God.

i threw no fist

im giving an honest statement about how i see your posts....

it sounds like youve never read the bible... and im talking to someone who has no desire for truth... but trying to push his agenda

______
to answer your question
when we walk in the spirit as opposed to the flesh

God will ultimately reward us for this<- in heaven

 

[emekrus]

i threw no fist

im giving an honest statement about how i see your posts....

it sounds like youve never read the bible... and im talking to someone who has no desire for truth... but trying to push his agenda

______
to answer your question
when we walk in the spirit as opposed to the flesh

God will ultimately reward us for this<- in heaven

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

well I have another question for you. Since its obvious you are a great bible scholar.

Do you think the person who gets wealth and use some of them to help the needy, some to establish churches.
Some for other ministerial endeavours, then some for himself and family is walking in the flesh?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

well I have another question for you. Since its obvious you are a great bible scholar.

Do you think the person who gets wealth and use some of them to help the needy, some to establish churches.
Some for other ministerial endeavours, then some for himself and family is walking in the flesh?

lol whos throwing fists now?

i see your sarcasm
haha
but no
having riches or money is not evil, loving riches or money is a ROOT of evil...

 

[emekrus]

lol whos throwing fists now?

i see your sarcasm
haha
but no
having riches or money is not evil, loving riches or money is a ROOT of evil...

Well,
I am preaching having riches or money here. Not loving riches or money.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Well,
I am preaching having riches or money here. Not loving riches or money.

we are not promised riches and money on earth

you now conflated the issue


God will watch over is own

but we are not promised "prosperity" in material things on earth as believers

 

[NoNameMcgee]

luke 6
20And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

21Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

22Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

23Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

24But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

25Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

___________

Luke Chapter 12

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

33 Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.


___________

Matthew 6:19-21
19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

______________

It is not wise to focus on some material things you want....

some may be blessed with more things on this earth

but many of us believers will not have the same walk as others

and those who focus on what is eternal as opposed to what is temporal

will recieve much greater blessings in the long run

bump

 

[PennEd]

One thing about the OP. There is no obfuscation from him. He believes and promotes the idea that believing in Christ equates to wealth and health on Earth now. He doesn't pussyfoot around, Jesus = Earthly lottery win!!!

Make no mistake about it, this is a horrible, I would even say satanic, doctrine.

So much Scripture has to either be tossed or twisted it's scary.

 

[Adstar]

But Brother Adstar,

if you believe believers already have changed hearts and the holy spirit in the present, why postpone the prosperity clause of the same covenant to the future?

What yardstick are you using to demarcate what gets fulfilled now and in the future?

The Word of God demarcates what we can expect now and what we can look forward to in eternity.. Like the scripture below,, posted in context..::

1 Timothy 6 KJV

5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.


6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.


7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.


8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.


9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.


10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


So the Bible tells me that i should be content with food and raiment ( clothing ) So that's all we Christians should expect to have in this world..If we have more then these things then we should look upon those extra things as a bonus not as something we are due from God... So if i am homeless and poor but have cloths and food then i will be content because i will know God is looking after me in this world..

 

[emekrus]

One thing about the OP. There is no obfuscation from him. He believes and promotes the idea that believing in Christ equates to wealth and health on Earth now. He doesn't pussyfoot around, Jesus = Earthly lottery win!!!

Make no mistake about it, this is a horrible, I would even say satanic, doctrine.

So much Scripture has to either be tossed or twisted it's scary.

Wow! Brother,
Concerning the emboldened part of your comment You got me almost right. Actually for me, Jesus= Earthly and Eternal lottery win!

And of course that's actually my reality. And I don't mean I do not have the persecution and suffering that goes along with it sometime as the scripture says.

My Christianity is virtually a heaven on earth experience. And I can Announce it to anyone, with all holy boldness, to the glory of God.

Then as for your thinking its horrible and satanic doctrine. Do you have scriptures?

If you do, then let's start discussing them.

 

[emekrus]

The Word of God demarcates what we can expect now and what we can look forward to in eternity.. Like the scripture below,, posted in context..::

1 Timothy 6 KJV

5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.


6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.


7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.


8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.


9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.


10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


So the Bible tells me that i should be content with food and raiment ( clothing ) So that's all we Christians should expect to have in this world..If we have more then these things then we should look upon those extra things as a bonus not as something we are due from God... So if i am homeless and poor but have cloths and food then i will be content because i will know God is looking after me in this world..

Brother Adstar,

Your first higlighted scripture says men of corrupt mind. And who are the men of corrupt minds?

Those who suppose gain is Godliness.

Well, I don't believe only gain is godliness. Because I know that loss can also be godliness in some context.

Then at the same time I also believe there are so many gains in Godliness such as Salvation, Righteousness, Power, Honour, Wisdom, Blessings, Riches, etc...

Then for the last part it says if we have food and raiment we should be content. While the scripture says so, it doesn't say if we have more than food and raiment we should be discontent.

Rather, the Apostle Paul tells us to be content with plenty and little. As a rich believer, I am content with both. Because that's the lot of the rich. They sometime have plenty, and sometime have less. But regardless, it doesn't change their status.

But yet, I don't see how this your exegesis demarcates the fulfilment of some part of Ezekiel's prophecy now, and some in the future.

 

[PennEd]

Wow! Brother,
Concerning the emboldened part of your comment You got me almost right. Actually for me, Jesus= Earthly and Eternal lottery win!

And of course that's actually my reality. And I don't mean I do not have the persecution and suffering that goes along with it sometime as the scripture says.

My Christianity is virtually a heaven on earth experience. And I can Announce it to anyone, with all holy boldness, to the glory of God.

Then as for your thinking its horrible and satanic doctrine. Do you have scriptures?

If you do, then let's start discussing them.

People have already given you much Scripture that you have twisted in ridiculous ways.

Let's see just how great your faith is in this prosperity gospel.

SELL EVERYTHING YOU OWN AND GIVE EVERY LAST CENT TO THE POOR, AND FOLLOW JESUS, TAKING NOTHING BUT THE SHIRT ON YOUR BACK, AND THE SHOES ON YOUR FEET.

This should be no problem since Jesus will pour out MORE material blessings to you.
Since you have to sell your computer and cell phone report back to us in a year after you have doubled and tripled your material wealth!

YOUR words are meaningless until you do that.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Then as for your thinking its horrible and satanic doctrine. Do you have scriptures?

to imply "all" believers recieve material things

is the same as implying all who do not have riches on earth.... are not saved


and say Gods children arent saved is a lie of the enemy


i believe that is what penns saying

also

i posted scriptures that show not all of us who will be blessed in heaven have money or things on earth

 

[emekrus]

People have already given you much Scripture that you have twisted in ridiculous ways.

Let's see just how great your faith is in this prosperity gospel.

SELL EVERYTHING YOU OWN AND GIVE EVERY LAST CENT TO THE POOR, AND FOLLOW JESUS, TAKING NOTHING BUT THE SHIRT ON YOUR BACK, AND THE SHOES ON YOUR FEET.

This should be no problem since Jesus will pour out MORE material blessings to you.
Since you have to sell your computer and cell phone report back to us in a year after you have doubled and tripled your material wealth!

YOUR words are meaningless until you do that.

Concerning the capitalised part of your comment.
Jesus said that to an individual. Not everybody. To interpret that as referring to everyone is to be legalistic.

Of course, if God tells me to give out everything I have, why not? But what if he doesn't tell me so, but rather prefers I have them for his service? Should I still go ahead and foolishly give them away?

I believe your answer is as good as mine.

 

[emekrus]

to imply "all" believers recieve material things

is the same as implying all who do not have riches on earth.... are not saved


and say Gods children arent saved is a lie of the enemy


i believe that is what penns saying

also

i posted scriptures that show not all of us who will be blessed in heaven have money or things on earth

Well,

You are interpreting it so, doesn't mean that is what we mean.

If you are not clear about a doctrine, the right thing to do as I usually do, is to ask questions instead of jumping into hasty conclusion.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Well,

You are interpreting it so, doesn't mean that is what we mean.

If you are not clear about a doctrine, the right thing to do as I usually do, is to ask questions instead of jumping into hasty conclusion.

i only answered your questions and gave you honest feedback

that was just my opinon of what a brother meant regarding another one of your questions

i havent jumped to a single conclusion about your man made doctrine


but i havent seen any truth from you

 

[PennEd]

Concerning the capitalised part of your comment.
Jesus said that to an individual. Not everybody. To interpret that as referring to everyone is to be legalistic.

Of course, if God tells me to give out everything I have, why not? But what if he doesn't tell me so, but rather prefers I have them for his service? Should I still go ahead and foolishly give them away?

I believe your answer is as good as mine.

His service IS to give it to the poor. How would it be foolish to help the poor?
Give ALL you have to them and trust that God will give you back way more than you have now.

God IS telling you to do that. You know you won't because you lack faith He will restore your wealth.
You want to hold onto and increase your wealth and deceive your own self.

Put your money where your mouth is.

If your prosperity gospel is true then you have nothing to fear.