Where do believers go after death?

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

We return to God. Ecclesiastes 12.

Technically that is true whether one is lost or saved. In one instance we return to God the Father, while in the other the lost return to the 'god of this world' II Corinthians 4:4.

 

[DianaO]

Technically that is true whether one is lost or saved. In one instance we return to God the Father, while in the other the lost return to the 'god of this world' II Corinthians 4:4.

No, they don't return to the god of this world. Because the god of this world did not give them spirit.

 

[PennEd]

Here are some passages to consider.

Matthew 17
1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves.
2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.
4 Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.”
5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”
6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified.
7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.”
8 And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.

Luke 16
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day.
20 “And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores,
21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores.
22 “Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
23 “In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’
25 “But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
26 ‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’
27 “And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house—
28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29 “But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’
30 “But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 “But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’

2 Corinthians 5
6 We are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.

Philippians 1
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.
25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith,
26 so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.

Revelation 6
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained;
10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
11 And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

So, how can any of this be true if the dead are unconscious until the Great White Throne (in the case of the reprobate), or the Bema Seat and Glory in the case of the saints?

How can those who are dead/absent from the body, make it their aim to do anything, much less to be well-pleasing to the Lord (in death, as they would in life), if they are not conscious when they are with Him in death?

How could St. Paul have possibly believed it better to depart and be with Christ (rather than laboring on in the flesh and the faith here for the sake of the saints), if "being with Christ" meant nothing more than lying interred in an unconscious state?

And how do those who are in Hades, Paradise, and/or under the altar in Heaven, "cry out in a loud voice" if their souls are just as lifeless as their dead bodies are in the ground?

It is because of passages such as these that the church as a whole (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Lutheran, etc., all, in fact, within the pale of Christian orthodoxy) has steadfastly taught that the doctrine of the "sleep of the soul" is heretical. We are conscious in death and at home with the Lord if we are Christians, while our bodies lie in the ground in death awaiting resurrection.

~Deut

.........Mark 12
.........27 ..He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
.

Not much more I can say than this post.

 

[Noose]

No, they don't return to the god of this world. Because the god of this world did not give them spirit.

And where is God?

 

[DianaO]

And where is God?

Brooklyn?

 

[tourist]

And what does this mean?

2 Peter 1:12 So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body,14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15 And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.

I believe that he made his every effort for them to remember these things before his departure and not after. I don't see how this verse is implying that Paul made some sort of effort after his departure rather than before. Interesting verse though.

 

[Magenta]

I believe that he made his every effort for them to remember these things before his departure and not after. I don't see how this verse is implying that Paul made some sort of effort after his departure rather than before. Interesting verse though.

Indeed, he plainly says, "as long as I live in the tent of this body."

 

[Noose]

I believe that he made his every effort for them to remember these things before his departure and not after. I don't see how this verse is implying that Paul made some sort of effort after his departure rather than before. Interesting verse though.

Is there really a connection between death and remembrance for those that live and believe?

2 Cor 4:
6For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,”a made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.

7But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. 8We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body.

12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.”b Since we have that same spirit ofc faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

What is the difference between what Paul says and what Peter said?
Paul seems to say that those believers will remember what they were taught because the Apostles will indwell them when they are caught up with them (presented with them). He makes it clear that their death will benefit those that believe.

Q. How does Paul's (Apostles') death benefit their students?

 

[Noose]

I'm not an English speaker but let's talk English for a moment. Do these sentences mean the same thing?

1. And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things
2. And I will make every effort to see that you will always be able to remember these things after my departure

 

[Nehemiah6]

They sleep, as do all until the resurrection

No, THEY DO NOT SLEEP. Soul sleep is false doctrine. All the saints go immediately to Heaven and are very much awake in the presence of God and Christ.

 

[Magenta]

No, THEY DO NOT SLEEP. Soul sleep is false doctrine. All the saints go immediately to Heaven and are very much awake in the presence of God and Christ.

Jesus referred to death as sleep on more than one occasion, but according to you, He was wrong

 

[KJV1611]

Jesus referred to death as sleep on more than one occasion, but according to you, He was wrong

Hey Magenta. 😊

 

[Nehemiah6]

Jesus referred to death as sleep on more than one occasion, but according to you, He was wrong

No, you were wrong in misunderstanding Him.

The "sleep" of death applies to the body, NOT the soul and spirit. So please take careful note:

SOUL AND SPIRIT AWAKE AND GO TO BE WITH CHRIST
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. (Acts 7:59)

BODY SAID TO "SLEEP" BUT LAID IN GRAVE
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep... And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. (Acts 7:60, 8:2)

As Paul said, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

 

[KJV1611]

No, you were wrong in misunderstanding Him.

The "sleep" of death applies to the body, NOT the soul and spirit. So please take careful note:

SOUL AND SPIRIT AWAKE AND GO TO BE WITH CHRIST
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. (Acts 7:59)

BODY SAID TO "SLEEP" BUT LAID IN GRAVE
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep... And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. (Acts 7:60, 8:2)

As Paul said, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

I just learned something, thank you!

 

[Magenta]

Hey Magenta. 😊

Hello, friend How are you this fine day that the Lord has made?

 

[Magenta]

No, you were wrong in misunderstanding Him.

The "sleep" of death applies to the body, NOT the soul and spirit. So please take careful note:

SOUL AND SPIRIT AWAKE AND GO TO BE WITH CHRIST
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. (Acts 7:59)

BODY SAID TO "SLEEP" BUT LAID IN GRAVE
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep... And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him. (Acts 7:60, 8:2)

As Paul said, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

The spirit being received by Jesus, sure. But no mention of it being awake and aware. Sleep is largely unconscious.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I believe that the New Testament usage of the word 'sleep' is referring to the empty shell of our dead bodies . . . but life and vitality is wherever the spirit is - and that is seated with Christ in heavenly places.

"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words" (I Thessalonians 4:14-18).

 

[KJV1611]

Hello, friend How are you this fine day that the Lord has made?

Fantastic!

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

When my wife was dying II Corinthians 5:1-4 was on my heart the entire time. Shortly after that I picked up "Baptist Bread" - a devotional booklet and the verses used for the day she died was this . . .

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life" (II Corinthians 5:1-4).

God has prepared temporary bodies for his deceased saints.

 

[DianaO]

They sleep, as do all until the resurrection.............They will be gathered by Yeshua's angels first, then those who remain in the flesh who are inJesus will be gathered also, all together on the clouds.....

1 Corinthians 15:6 tells us they sleep.
It gets confusing at times doesn't it?