No Eternal Security = No Salvation?

PennEd · Sep 9, 2018

This is a sincere question to mostly those who already believe they are eternally secure (OSAS), and cannot lose their Salvation because Jesus is the One who gave it to them and keeps it secure.

I know there are umpteen OSAS threads, and that can certainly and most likely will be discussed here as EVERY thread eventually boils down to that.

But what I'm asking is are those that don't believe in eternal security saved? I honestly don't know, but would like to hear your thoughts on this issue. At one time I thought you COULD lose your Salvation. I knew who Jesus is (God in the flesh) and what He has done (die to pay for our sin and resurrected to life after 3 days) but also thought that I could lose that Salvation for "willing sin" or disobedience in not totally following Him.

Others here believe they could lose their Salvation for additional reasons. So my question is does thinking you can lose your Salvation equate to NOT being saved?

May God Bless you all!

JohnRH · Sep 9, 2018

PennEd said:

I think in many cases the anti-OSAS thinking simply equates to poor logic and/or wrongly dividing the word of truth. They typically unload a box car load of Scripture "proof texts" that aren't even talking about the eternal salvation or eternal security of an individual.
Are they saved? Well - they are if they are and they aren't if they aren't.

They sound to me like they're working to stay saved, but many of them insist they're not.

Locutus · Sep 9, 2018

PennEd said:

I can't give a definitive here - but I would consider it a reasoned lack of faith, i.e reasoning incorrectly from scripture how they understand the various scriptures when determining OSAS or not OSAS.

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Sep 9, 2018

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Nehemiah6 · Sep 9, 2018

PennEd said:

Not necessarily. Most of the naysayers fall into the following categories:

1. Poorly taught about the meaning of God's salvation.

2. Deceived by the doctrines of men.

3. Unable to comprehend the grace of God and the finished work of Christ.

4. Plain ignorant.

Shamah · Sep 9, 2018

A persons belief that they are or are not saved has no bearing on if they are going to enter the kingdom... All the bolded are words that show people thinki they are saved and are not...NOt a condemnation of any here, it is Scripture.

Luke 13:22-30,22 And He was going through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Yerushalayim,"23 and someone said to Him, “Master, are there few who are being saved?” And He said to them,"24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, because many, I say to you, shall seek to enter in and shall not be able."25 “When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Master, Master, open for us,’ and He shall answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’"26 then you shall begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’"27 “But He shall say, ‘I say to you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of unrighteousness.’ Psa 6:8."28 “There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Aḇraham and Yitsḥaq and Ya‛aqoḇa and all the prophets in the reign of Elohim, and yourselves thrown outside. Footnote: a Mat 16:28-17:3."29 “And they shall come from the east and the west, and from the north and the south, and sit down in the reign of Elohim."30 “And see, there are last who shall be first, and there are first who shall be last.”"

John 5:25-30, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of YHWH. And those having heard shall live. For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself, and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam. Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done right, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me."

John 5:21-22, “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes."22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,"

Mat 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me; Master! Master! will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Master! Master! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity.”

Jeremiah 7:9-11, “Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, vow falsely, burn incense to Baal, follow hinder gods you know nothing of, And then come and stand before Me in this House upon which My Name is called, and say; We are saved! Saved to do all these abominations? Has this House, which is called with My Name, become a den of thieves in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen this! says YHWH.”

Splagna · Sep 9, 2018

PennEd said:

No. I’m not OSAS and I know I’m saved. My OSAS and 5pt Calvinist friends never questioned whether my wife or I are saved. We attended the same fellowship and agreed to put our differences aside to work on evangelism and discipleship. Sure, we discussed our differences on occasion, but it never came close to the hate fest as seen on this forum.

PennEd, please don’t take this as disparaging you at all. I’d rather love on ya rather than fight with you any day. But please be careful judging, especially regarding one’s salvation, those who don’t agree with your particular dogma.

dcontroversal · Sep 9, 2018

PennEd said:

I know that I will catch it for this, but at the end of the day there is but ONE gospel that has power to save a man...the bible is clear on this subject...when we embellish the gospel we make it VOID WITH NO POWER TO SAVE......a prime example of a gospel that has been embellished is found in the very words of JESUS and he uses the words PLENTEOUS IN NUMBER "MANY"....and the reason he uses the word MANY IS BECAUSE MOST so called Christian religions peddle a form of this gospel....

a. They claim to know Jesus "Call him Lord"
b. They believe their right to enter the kingdom is based upon what they have done <--first on the list is works!

THIS BOILS DOWN TO A FAITH PLUS WORKS DOGMA.....

Jesus states clearly that he never KNEW THEM.....they were never saved to begin with and or then lost it.

Can I/we judge a man's salvation.....NO

Can I/we judge a man's gospel and or the validity to save a man or not by the word of God.....YES

Faith plus anything to gain salvation is false and has no power!

A gospel that teaches a salvation that can be lost has no power!

A gospel that teaches we must do something after faith to maintain salvation has no power!

A gospel that teaches any human effort, merit or self sustaining salvation has no power!

A gospel that goes outside the power and faith of Christ to keep one saved has no power!

It is ALL JESUS OR IT IS NOT SALVATION!

Splagna · Sep 9, 2018

dcontroversal said:

Ok, let me ask you this: When James and Peter tells us to, Resist the devil and he will flee from you (James 4:7, 8; 1 Peter 5:8, 9 NASB) or when Paul tells us, But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh (Galatians 5:16) or Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts (Romans 6:12)… they are telling us not to do anything?

DiscipleDave · Sep 9, 2018

PennEd said:

There is ONLY one day that will determine who is Saved and who is NOT Saved, and that is the Day of the Lord, when He Returns to the Earth to set up His Kingdom, and become King of Kings of the Earth.

Know you not that it is written, He that endures to the end shall be Saved? Know you not that the Apostle Paul wrote, that he is in a race, not that he has finished it yet?

i feel in my heart that i am SAVED today, does that mean i can't be blotted out of the Book of Life? NO! i believe with all my heart that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, died, and rose again, paid the penalties for my sins, and has forgiven me. Tomorrow i may decide to deny Jesus. i believe in Jesus today, but tomorrow i may hate someone, tomorrow i may not forgive someone EVER, two things that Scriptures teach will prevent me from going to Heaven. If i do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will i be forgiven of mine, is that not written? So today i am Saved, but i will have to endure to the end, in order to be SAVED, if i fail to endure to the end, then my name will have been blotted out of the book of Life, on that day when the Books are opened and whosoever name is written in the Book of Life, ON THAT DAY, shall be SAVED, whether they be dead in the graves, or alive on the Earth.

So this generation can make themselves FEEL better about themselves if they want to, by claiming they are already SAVED and nothing they can do will ever change that, (much weeping and gnashing from these same folks, so sad) But here is the TRUTH and Scriptures backs it up. There is ONLY ONE DAY that is Judgement Day, that will determine who is and who is not SAVED. That DAY is NOT today.

You may be walking in the light today, but walking in darkness next week.

Eph_5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Eph_5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

1Jn_1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn_2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1Jn_2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1Jn_1:7 But if (Conditional) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. . .. . . . .

When does His Blood cleanse us from All sin? When we walk in the Light and NOT in darkness. Woe to them who claim to be walking in the light, but walk in darkness, thinking that His Blood still cleanseth them. This generation needs to wake up from their sleeping, give up your life, start living a life for Jesus Christ and not for your own selves. Your Lord and Savior gave up His life for you, should you not be willing to give up that sin for Him? Give up that darkness for Him? Start walking in the light, and not that darkness that you do?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

UnderGrace · Sep 9, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

Hey, I have some Good News to share!!!

I knew everyday since I was born again, many yesterdays, today and everyday forward!!!

Thank you Jesus!!

dcontroversal · Sep 9, 2018

Splagna said:

Do not confuse justification and positional sanctification with ongoing sanctification in our daily lives......any salvation you may possess is not based upon your performance, but rather on Christ and his work, power, promises and faith!

dcontroversal · Sep 9, 2018

UnderGrace said:

The self proclaimed prophet has chimed in I see...remember when he said that Jesus was going to reference him by his CC name on the day of judgment and what he taught to judge us by.......I do....and I am still not buying the prophet status, nor his version of a salvation that can be lost like a dime in the sandbox at the park!

Splagna · Sep 9, 2018

dcontroversal said:

So ongoing sanctification, i.e. resisting the devil, walking by the Spirit or not letting sin reign in the Christian’s body has nothing to do with salvation? Not resisting the devil, and not walking in the Spirit, or letting sin reign in one's body won't affect one's salvation?

seed_time_harvest · Sep 9, 2018

PennEd said:

IMO,those who don’t believe In eternal salvation are still saved but they haven’t renewed their minds yet to the new creation they have become,

Its a really good question that you have asked.

The question that vibrated my mind was can a person that does not believe In eternal salvation be saved and not know It and live like the devil and still make It Into heaven?

The bible says that every man that has this hope In them will purify themselves even as they are pure.
Grace does not teach a person to live unGODly.

dcontroversal · Sep 9, 2018

Splagna said:

Exactly....CALLED CHASTISMENT for SONS and Daughters that walk contrary....NOT the loss of salvation! A son by birth will always be a son by birth...It is the spirit that is born from above by INCORRUPTABLE SEED and the GIFTS OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE!

7seasrekeyed · Sep 9, 2018

Splagna said:

hmm

I believe the warnings in the NT are as true as is the rest of it

but that is what they are.

what sin does, is affect your relationship with God

even in the garden, God came walking in the evening, KNOWING what had transpired

He is the same. He has provided an eternal sacrifice and a covering for our sins that is effective throughout our lives and that does not change our salvation

what we do, we do by the grace (undeserved gift) of God and it is a testament to Him only, that we are kept by the Spirit of God and do not fall away

those who proceed in their own strength will either fail or become self righteous and proud

Splagna · Sep 9, 2018

7seasrekeyed said:

^^^I agree with that statement totally. It isn't by our strength we resist the devil, walk by the Spirit or not let sin reign in our body but by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Free Gift of Grace not only includes the Cross but also the resurrection power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11). But like any other gift we must use it. We aren’t passive. In the context of resisting the devil James also tells us to, Draw near to God and He will draw near to you (James 4:8). By failing to plug into the power available to us due to a busy life, laziness, discouragement or any other number of things we can fall into temptation, resulting in spiritual death (James 1:14, 15).

In my forty years of walking with the Lord I’ve seen too many Christian leaders become so busy ministering to their flock they fail to tend to their own personal walk with God, resulting in their falling into sin and walking away from the faith. We are totally reliant on our relationship with God, and without involvement in that relationship we are powerless to overcome temptation.

7seasrekeyed · Sep 9, 2018

Splagna said:

well you agreed with one line

what about the rest? no need to use the word passive here if one is actively engaged in their life with Christ, keeping in mind what might be your standard may not be God's standard, but accepting that we all see through a glass darkly means our own mirror as well

I have not read where anyone stated they were sitting around waitin for it all to go down with no personal effort

UnderGrace · Sep 9, 2018

dcontroversal said:

So far off the mark of the gospel, I find this happens often with the self-proclaiming types.

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