Fine I'm glad you agree that works do not save.
You say the abovementioned.
Can I rephrase it to see if you agree?
Faith will result in works (not sure what you mean by perfect faith).
So are we considered righteous by faith or by works?
I mean this:
James 2:22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected?"
Faith is complete, true, authentic etc.
We are considered truly rightous only in YHWH.
Isaiah 45:21-25,21 “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from that time? Is it not I, יהוה? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a righteous Ěl and a Saviour, there is none besides Me."22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Ěl, and there is none else."23 “I have sworn by Myself, a word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, so that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue swear."24 “One shall say,
‘Only in יהוה do I have righteousness and strength’ – he comes to Him. And all those displeased with Him shall be put to shame."25 “In יהוה all the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall be declared right and boast.”"
Yes God has written his laws on our hearts as you say.
What are those laws?
Who were those laws given to?
All the followers of YHWH, if you say it's only Israel then anyone outside Israel has any part of the New Covenant because Jer 31 says "to Israel" below:
What's your thoughts on V17
Hebrews 10:17
17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
It is a quote from Jer 31:34
Jeremiah 31:31-40,31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a "chadash" covenant
with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah, 32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthened their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. 33 “For
this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people."34 “And
no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbour, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”"35 Thus said יהוה, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar – יהוה of hosts is His Name:"36 “
If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”"37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה."38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate."39 “And the measuring line shall again extend straight ahead to the hill Garĕḇ, then it shall turn toward Go‛ah."40 “And all the valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the wadi Qiḏron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, is to be set-apart to יהוה. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down any more forever.”"
34 “And
no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbour, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more."
This has not yet happened, does everyone know YHWH? No in the kingdom this will be complete. Iknow this is sp crazy to modern doctrine, but fact is this has not yet been completed, all do not know Yah, and in the day of YHWH He will send the MEssiah and the world will be punished, recompense for the overflowing cup of abomanations...
Finally this:
36 “
If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”"
ohh but only for Jews! Yeah well since Exodus one Law for the native and for the stranger in Yah;s covenant:
Numbers 15:15-16, “One law is for you of the assembly and for
the stranger who sojourns with you – a law forever throughout your generations.
As you are, so is the stranger before יהוה. One Torah and one right-ruling is for you and for
the stranger who sojourns with you.”
Exodus 12:47-49, “All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. And
when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the Passover to יהוה, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and
he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
One law shall be to him that is nativeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourns among you.”
this is what "grafted in" means....
Just because it is not main stream does not mean it is not true. However I do want to say, no gentile can know the Instructions of YHWH or even those spoken by Yahshua when they first come to the faith, that is why we read the word, pray, etc... It odd, a set of guidelines were given to those "coming to the Messiah" in Acts 15, yet now even those are thrown out...
The issue here I think is not the world or people here are saying you cannot seek it to obey it, the issue is you seek to obey in order to be saved.
Jesus said "If you love me you will keep my commands"
We do because of love, if it is out of love then surely we have faith in him because he has released us to love and do.
Not in order to be saved.
That's what seperated the sheep from the goats.
Is Jesus looking for works or relationship?
Does works satisfy him or relationship?
Do we focus on relationship that leads to works?
Or do we focus on works only?
Like those that proclaimed great works but are rejected by Jesus?
Depart from me I never knew you.
We can do a full breakdown of Mat7:21-23 later or another day if you want, I dont have the time this minute, where even those with differing views are not shunned but we all talk like adults, but to say uickly, "practice iniquity" has a meaning. I can make my own religion where mowing lawns is the work of Yah, then in judgement say "but I mowed lawns in your name!" if He didnt command it it is not His path... More to it than that, but sum just that one part up...
Yeah I think it comes down to love, but that is not man;s standard of love it is YHWH;s standard of love, explained in His Law and shown by the Messiah. No we are not perfect but He gives an example, and we are to walk in the way.
Is Jesus looking for works or relationship?
He is looking for those who will follow Him:
John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."
Does works satisfy him or relationship?
He is looking for those that sublit to Him:
Matthew 10:37-39, “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me, and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 “And
he who does not take up his stake and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 “He who has found his life shall lose it, and he that has lost his life for My sake shall find it.”
Do we focus on relationship that leads to works?
We focus on staying in Him, then we are able to do His will:
John/Yahanan 15:5-16, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you.”
Or do we focus on works only?
This would cause one to not follow the Messiah, I think this is Mat 7:22 like, if we focuse on the Shepherd we will walk in His path, if we look away we can get off the path and not even realize it.
There is really nothing to touch on and none of your arguments are anything new or enlightening. We all do need to heed the words of Jesus and not mix law and grace. John 1:17 - For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
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