12 Signs You Are A Modern-Day Pharisee
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"Ralph-, post: 3700022, member: 259903"
I explained it this way:
"...the Modern day Pharisee is the one who abuses grace in the same way that the Pharisees of old abused the law."
The point being, as I said, they do that to justify their sinful lives and to give the appearance of being right with God. One glorifies the greatness of the law while abusing it. The other glorifying the greatness of grace while abusing it.
what? this is not the same. there are still people who abuse the law the same way they did 2000 years ago
The point is, this is hardly the problem with the church today. The far, far larger problem in the church today is the abuse of grace.
while I agree people misunderstand and are taught badly and think grace is some kind of elastic that just snaps 'em back into place no matter what, I think you are comparing apples to oranges as the saying goes
to sum up, I would understand that a Pharisee of any age, are those who look down their snoots at others and fancy themselves better (from my other post)
And you think grace people do not ever do this in feigned humility?
no. I do not think 'grace people', as you put it, feign humility. I find those who confuse the 'good' works we are created in Christ Jesus to do, as 'proof' of salvation and are far more likely to look down on others
I've seen this in this very forum over and over
being a Pharisee is something different than feigned humility. I also do not understand how you think a person can abuse grace.
You can never abuse the grace of God. if you can abuse it, that would mean you never loose it .( rhyme not intended)
you either have it or you do not. our sin cannot abuse God's grace. His grace is available to us each and every time we sin
His grace does not change. if someone is not really saved, God is well aware of it. I don't think it's something we need to worry about other than praying for a person like that
I explained it this way:
"...the Modern day Pharisee is the one who abuses grace in the same way that the Pharisees of old abused the law."
The point being, as I said, they do that to justify their sinful lives and to give the appearance of being right with God. One glorifies the greatness of the law while abusing it. The other glorifying the greatness of grace while abusing it.
what? this is not the same. there are still people who abuse the law the same way they did 2000 years ago
The point is, this is hardly the problem with the church today. The far, far larger problem in the church today is the abuse of grace.
while I agree people misunderstand and are taught badly and think grace is some kind of elastic that just snaps 'em back into place no matter what, I think you are comparing apples to oranges as the saying goes
to sum up, I would understand that a Pharisee of any age, are those who look down their snoots at others and fancy themselves better (from my other post)
And you think grace people do not ever do this in feigned humility?
no. I do not think 'grace people', as you put it, feign humility. I find those who confuse the 'good' works we are created in Christ Jesus to do, as 'proof' of salvation and are far more likely to look down on others
I've seen this in this very forum over and over
being a Pharisee is something different than feigned humility. I also do not understand how you think a person can abuse grace.
You can never abuse the grace of God. if you can abuse it, that would mean you never loose it .( rhyme not intended)
you either have it or you do not. our sin cannot abuse God's grace. His grace is available to us each and every time we sin
His grace does not change. if someone is not really saved, God is well aware of it. I don't think it's something we need to worry about other than praying for a person like that
R
Of course there are. What I said was they are few in number. Very few in number relative to the vast number of people in the church.
The big problem in the church today is not Christians trying to earn salvation by works. Good grief, all you have to do is look around you and see that Christians are definitely not noted for being careful to do the righteous works of the law because they think that's how they are made righteous before God.
It's okay. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
Today's corrupted grace teachings no more guide people into obedience to God than the corrupted law teachings of the Pharisees guided people into obedience to God. Though each give the appearance of having done so. Today's Pharisees ruling the (Protestant) church are just as hypocritical as the Pharisees of old were, and are just as sure they are pleasing to God, despite their hypocrisy as the old Pharisees were.
You have noticed the hateful, condescending posts coming from some people in this forum towards others who they feel are teaching the works gospel, haven't you? Paul was obviously aware of how Christians who stand by faith can become arrogant in their status by the fact he warned us not to be:
"20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear "-Romans 11:20
How you treat those who are not in the Tree indicates how humble and not conceited you are in your privileged place in the Tree.
Without addressing the issue of 'once saved always saved', it's clear t hat anyone who says a believer is able to live the sinful life of an unbeliever if they want and grace will cover it is indeed abusing grace.
Yes, you can. Even if you or someone else wants to insist 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is referring to unsaved people, the author is making it abundantly clear that a person can indeed 'insult the Spirit of grace'.
Hey, you're a poet and don't realize that!
But, yes, that is the (false) argument. But let's just stick to the fact that, yes, one can abuse the Spirit of grace and let's not delve into the nether regions of 'once saved always saved'. Grace abounds, but it does have it's limit. It's not as hyper-extendable as more and more Christians in the church are insisting.
That's not true. Grace is not available for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That's the one thing grace can not be hyper-extended to cover. A person may think that grace will always abound more and more in the face of abounding sin but Jesus made it clear that it won't abound all the more over the sin of blasphemy of the Spirit.
The big problem in the church today is not Christians trying to earn salvation by works. Good grief, all you have to do is look around you and see that Christians are definitely not noted for being careful to do the righteous works of the law because they think that's how they are made righteous before God.
It's okay. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
Today's corrupted grace teachings no more guide people into obedience to God than the corrupted law teachings of the Pharisees guided people into obedience to God. Though each give the appearance of having done so. Today's Pharisees ruling the (Protestant) church are just as hypocritical as the Pharisees of old were, and are just as sure they are pleasing to God, despite their hypocrisy as the old Pharisees were.
You have noticed the hateful, condescending posts coming from some people in this forum towards others who they feel are teaching the works gospel, haven't you? Paul was obviously aware of how Christians who stand by faith can become arrogant in their status by the fact he warned us not to be:
"20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear "-Romans 11:20
How you treat those who are not in the Tree indicates how humble and not conceited you are in your privileged place in the Tree.
Without addressing the issue of 'once saved always saved', it's clear t hat anyone who says a believer is able to live the sinful life of an unbeliever if they want and grace will cover it is indeed abusing grace.
Yes, you can. Even if you or someone else wants to insist 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is referring to unsaved people, the author is making it abundantly clear that a person can indeed 'insult the Spirit of grace'.
Hey, you're a poet and don't realize that!
But, yes, that is the (false) argument. But let's just stick to the fact that, yes, one can abuse the Spirit of grace and let's not delve into the nether regions of 'once saved always saved'. Grace abounds, but it does have it's limit. It's not as hyper-extendable as more and more Christians in the church are insisting.
That's not true. Grace is not available for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That's the one thing grace can not be hyper-extended to cover. A person may think that grace will always abound more and more in the face of abounding sin but Jesus made it clear that it won't abound all the more over the sin of blasphemy of the Spirit.
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What kind of limit?
Every time a person sins in unbelief(no faith) they abuse the confidence they do have. He informs us he will work it out in us to end just liken as he began in the beginning .Our fellowship is with the good news not our fleshly works
For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:5-6
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philippians 1:12-14
Those who insist it is not fair that His love works differently in others should stop complaining about hyper grace .He will not forget the love that others they have shown before His name.
Everyone gets the same reward "eternal life". The former things will not be remeberered or ever come to mind to those who are keeping score.
Every time a person sins in unbelief(no faith) they abuse the confidence they do have. He informs us he will work it out in us to end just liken as he began in the beginning .Our fellowship is with the good news not our fleshly works
For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:5-6
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: Philippians 1:12-14
Those who insist it is not fair that His love works differently in others should stop complaining about hyper grace .He will not forget the love that others they have shown before His name.
Everyone gets the same reward "eternal life". The former things will not be remeberered or ever come to mind to those who are keeping score.
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did you misunderstand what I wrote?
well yes you did!
know why?
that would be because you have an agenda against OSAS which I did not mention but you have tried to insert vigoursly until you were told not to
since you messed up what I wrote so badly, let me give you some advice.
stop trying to filter what other people say through the lens of your war against OSAS
and telling someone if they do not undertand that is ok?
dude. You just EXEMPLIFIED the pharisee spirit right there! that comment is dismissive and you indicate that only those who really get it...I mean really really get it...can understand what YOU are saying. that's how you come across
you truly do not understand the grace of God and that is indicated by what you said above. I NEVER EVER said a thing about God's grace being extended to those who are not saved but you add to that and bring up 'the unpardonable sin'
maybe you have a sin mindset instead of a grace mindset?
I said that the grace of God cannot be abused. and that is a TRUE statement. God does not change. He is immutable. that, means His grace does not change either
human beings change. which is why that grace is extended in the first place
and then you come up with this:
you just love to use that word hyper, eh? I did not even hint at the remarks you make in that quote above and the way you lean, I don't think further remarks will be useful since you have an agenda and I do not
well yes you did!
know why?
that would be because you have an agenda against OSAS which I did not mention but you have tried to insert vigoursly until you were told not to
since you messed up what I wrote so badly, let me give you some advice.
stop trying to filter what other people say through the lens of your war against OSAS
and telling someone if they do not undertand that is ok?
dude. You just EXEMPLIFIED the pharisee spirit right there! that comment is dismissive and you indicate that only those who really get it...I mean really really get it...can understand what YOU are saying. that's how you come across
you truly do not understand the grace of God and that is indicated by what you said above. I NEVER EVER said a thing about God's grace being extended to those who are not saved but you add to that and bring up 'the unpardonable sin'
maybe you have a sin mindset instead of a grace mindset?
I said that the grace of God cannot be abused. and that is a TRUE statement. God does not change. He is immutable. that, means His grace does not change either
human beings change. which is why that grace is extended in the first place
and then you come up with this:
you just love to use that word hyper, eh? I did not even hint at the remarks you make in that quote above and the way you lean, I don't think further remarks will be useful since you have an agenda and I do not
R
That is what happened. Although I had no intention of 'putting her in her place' I responded with scripture to what she posted (this is a forum to do that) and she, as you say, 'blew a gasket'.
Virtually everything you wrote describes the modern day Pharisee who tramples grace like the old Pharisee trampled the law. God help you when you get one of them mad at you. And I mean that. Case in point.
Virtually everything you wrote describes the modern day Pharisee who tramples grace like the old Pharisee trampled the law. God help you when you get one of them mad at you. And I mean that. Case in point.
R
I'm glad you made the connection that Jesus spoke about this in regard to the Pharisees of his day.
They knew they were rejecting the Holy Spirit, yet they did it anyway. Jesus calls that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That's what people today are doing who trample on the grace of God, insulting it, but who claim it's impossible to abuse grace because grace covers ALL things, even the sin of rejecting grace. No, Jesus was very clear about that. Grace is NOT going to cover that. Grace does not go everywhere. It does in fact have a line that it will NOT cross.
We don't even need to talk about it's implications to OSAS (which I'm not) to know that Christ clearly and plainly said that is unforgivable. You can not abuse grace and think it will cover that sin. No it will not. Yet, I am told, even scolded, over and over that yes it will because it's impossible to abuse grace. That's the spirit of the new Pharisee in the church.
They knew they were rejecting the Holy Spirit, yet they did it anyway. Jesus calls that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That's what people today are doing who trample on the grace of God, insulting it, but who claim it's impossible to abuse grace because grace covers ALL things, even the sin of rejecting grace. No, Jesus was very clear about that. Grace is NOT going to cover that. Grace does not go everywhere. It does in fact have a line that it will NOT cross.
We don't even need to talk about it's implications to OSAS (which I'm not) to know that Christ clearly and plainly said that is unforgivable. You can not abuse grace and think it will cover that sin. No it will not. Yet, I am told, even scolded, over and over that yes it will because it's impossible to abuse grace. That's the spirit of the new Pharisee in the church.
R
Pharisee of Jesus' day: The person who gets murderously mad at you when you say that they are outside of the boundaries of the law they say they cherish so much but do not live by.
Pharisee of our day: The person who gets murderously mad at you when you say that they are outside the boundaries of the grace they say they cherish so much but do not live by.
Sorry, folks, if any of you are offended by that, but I calls them as I sees them. There's a truth movement going on in the world today and I'd like to see it happen in the church. Time to call a spade a spade.
Pharisee of our day: The person who gets murderously mad at you when you say that they are outside the boundaries of the grace they say they cherish so much but do not live by.
Sorry, folks, if any of you are offended by that, but I calls them as I sees them. There's a truth movement going on in the world today and I'd like to see it happen in the church. Time to call a spade a spade.
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again, no one can abuse God's grace because God is immutable
God does not change. therefore, His grace remains THE SAME
that is why His grace is enough for little sins and the big whopper sins
sin is the level playing field that creates equality before God
God's grace is the ultimate 'fix' that creates equality before Him
no one earns it, no one keeps it and no one is more saved than another
this is what you stumble on Ralph because you are seeing through the lens of your impossible assertions that the grace of God is somehow affected by our sin. His grace is ALWAYS there and it does not change. It is always available and always enough to cover any sin, otherwise Jesus would have to die over and over and over again
are you able to understand what I am saying here or are you going to attempt to create a false impression of me by saying 'I blew a gasket' ?
what we do with grace is accept or not. we cannot even 'keep' ourselves saved. we are saved by the grace of God and He is our Father from there on out and He cares for His children...even those who constantly quibble over issues that are salvation 101
nothing I have said from this post and back, indicates in any way shape or form, that I think or that anyone should think, they now have license to sin
if God does not extend His grace to those outside of His family, then how can you say a human can abuse His grace?
if His grace is sufficient for all of us all the time, then that is what He had in mind to begin with
perhaps clear your mind of seeing sin as a stumbling block for God. He does not have that problem
if we sin, we go to God and He forgives us. we separate ourselves from God. no one who has ever EVER trusted in Him has been turned away by Him
the disobedient are not those who are the sons and daughters. and that does not mean people never struggle with sin if they are believers because quite the opposite is true. that is when we need to remember who the accuser is and take it all to God who is faithful and just and forgives
God does not change. therefore, His grace remains THE SAME
that is why His grace is enough for little sins and the big whopper sins
sin is the level playing field that creates equality before God
God's grace is the ultimate 'fix' that creates equality before Him
no one earns it, no one keeps it and no one is more saved than another
this is what you stumble on Ralph because you are seeing through the lens of your impossible assertions that the grace of God is somehow affected by our sin. His grace is ALWAYS there and it does not change. It is always available and always enough to cover any sin, otherwise Jesus would have to die over and over and over again
are you able to understand what I am saying here or are you going to attempt to create a false impression of me by saying 'I blew a gasket' ?
what we do with grace is accept or not. we cannot even 'keep' ourselves saved. we are saved by the grace of God and He is our Father from there on out and He cares for His children...even those who constantly quibble over issues that are salvation 101
nothing I have said from this post and back, indicates in any way shape or form, that I think or that anyone should think, they now have license to sin
if God does not extend His grace to those outside of His family, then how can you say a human can abuse His grace?
if His grace is sufficient for all of us all the time, then that is what He had in mind to begin with
perhaps clear your mind of seeing sin as a stumbling block for God. He does not have that problem
if we sin, we go to God and He forgives us. we separate ourselves from God. no one who has ever EVER trusted in Him has been turned away by Him
the disobedient are not those who are the sons and daughters. and that does not mean people never struggle with sin if they are believers because quite the opposite is true. that is when we need to remember who the accuser is and take it all to God who is faithful and just and forgives
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