Not By Works

[Cee]

wrong. these are His commands:

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

That verse you quoted comes from this:

John 6:28-29,28 So they said to Him, “What should we do to work the works of the Mighty One?” יהושע answered and said to them, “This is the work of the Mighty One, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

and is speaking of this:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

Acts 3:19-23, “Repent therefore and turn back, for the blotting out of your sins, in order that times of refreshing might come from the presence of the Master, and that He sends יהושע Messiah, pre-appointed for you, whom heaven needs to receive until the times of restoration of all matters, of which the Mighty One spoke through the mouth of all His set-apart prophets since of old. For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”

but if you isolate that single passage one can draw upon Him with the lips while the heart is far from Him.

ignoring much of what the Messiah taught, but most seem to reject the words of the Messiah....

John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”

It's funny to me, when you say I am incorrect and then post 3 Scriptures out of context to prove it.

But I digress...

First off Matt 22:37-40 was spoken to the Jews, you'll notice this is never repeated to Gentiles. Why?

Because Jesus came to save the Jews! But they needed to know they were sick in order to want the medicine - Him. So Jesus spoke to them from their own LAW to show them they were missing the boat big time.

You're right those 2 commandments were everything the Law & Prophets hung on! But WE do not live according to the Law. We live according to the LORD.

And I'll stay in the same book for you.

Here's what Jesus said several chapters before Matt 22.

Matt 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

And then He proceeds to outline in detail what righteousness surpassed looks like:

Matt 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

And He proceeds to show them, yes this WAS written.... but *I* say... and this is the command of the Lord.

He increases their observance of the Law from what was written to the HEART observance to such a degree He finishes with this:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

And finishes with this:

48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

You still don't think Jesus is showing them they need a Savior?

I could go through all of Matthew, but I'll sum it up.

He's showing them:

1) Look how far away from the standard you are.
2) You need MY yoke because it's easy and light.

I'm not saying our righteousness doesn't exceed the Pharisees because it does. It's His righteousness and it transforms us so that we might reveal Him on the Earth. Because love fulfills the Law. And we love because He loved us first.

Paul explains this in Phil 3...

4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.

7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

This is the function of the Christian life. We press forward for what Christ has already given us. And our lives far exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

You were the one who started off talking to me by saying I preach "justification by works" So I think you started the accusations.

I see you quote the Messiah in John 6.

Is that the only time His words matter?

John 14:21, “he who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him.”

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”

John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”

John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

Believeing the Messiah is more than believeing He is the Messiah...

James 2:19-20, “You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead?”

“believe” is word #G4100 - pisteuó: to believe, entrust, Original Word: πιστεύω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: pisteuó, Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o), Short Definition: I believe, have faith in, Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

Matthew 8:28-29, “And when He came to the other side, to the country of the Girgashites, two demon-possessed ones met Him, coming out of the tombs, very fierce, so that no one was able to pass that way. And see, they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, יהושע, Son of the Mighty One? Have You come here to torture us, before the appointed time?”

John 8:24, “Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.”

Acts 7:37-38, “This is the Mosheh who said to the children of Yisra’yl, ‘יהוה your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear.’ This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, who received the living Words to give to us.”

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, “I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it.”

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

you do push works salvation though

you believe a man is kept saved through his works


right?


you believe someone who truely believes in God (Jesus Christ) can still get cast into the lake of fire

based on their works


you do not believe we are saved appart from our works

 

[NoNameMcgee]

It's funny to me, when you say I am incorrect and then post 3 Scriptures out of context to prove it.

But I digress...

First off Matt 22:37-40 was spoken to the Jews, you'll notice this is never repeated to Gentiles. Why?

Because Jesus came to save the Jews! But they needed to know they were sick in order to want the medicine - Him. So Jesus spoke to them from their own LAW to show them they were missing the boat big time.

You're right those 2 commandments were everything the Law & Prophets hung on! But WE do not live according to the Law. We live according to the LORD.

And I'll stay in the same book for you.

Here's what Jesus said several chapters before Matt 22.

Matt 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

And then He proceeds to outline in detail what righteousness surpassed looks like:

Matt 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

And He proceeds to show them, yes this WAS written.... but *I* say... and this is the command of the Lord.

He increases their observance of the Law from what was written to the HEART observance to such a degree He finishes with this:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

And finishes with this:

48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

You still don't think Jesus is showing them they need a Savior?

I could go through all of Matthew, but I'll sum it up.

He's showing them:

1) Look how far away from the standard you are.
2) You need MY yoke because it's easy and light.

I'm not saying our righteousness doesn't exceed the Pharisees because it does. It's His righteousness and it transforms us so that we might reveal Him on the Earth. Because love fulfills the Law. And we love because He loved us first.

Paul explains this in Phil 3...

4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.

7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

This is the function of the Christian life. We press forward for what Christ has already given us. And our lives far exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law.

it really is heart breaking to see people so confused as to what God teaches us through His inspired written word


i cant count how many times ive explained entire chapters word by word

only to be met with a desperate attempt to change the subject by throwing more out of context verses

 

[NoNameMcgee]

it really is heart breaking to see people so confused as to what God teaches us through His inspired written word


i cant count how many times ive explained entire chapters word by word

only to be met with a desperate attempt to change the subject by throwing more out of context verses

or if not verses out of context (which is the norm) mental gymnastics to try and fill in the holes in their false doctrines

for example... ive seen someone try to say

born of flesh = water baptism

 

[Shamah]

It's funny to me, when you say I am incorrect and then post 3 Scriptures out of context to prove it.

But I digress...

First off Matt 22:37-40 was spoken to the Jews, you'll notice this is never repeated to Gentiles. Why?

Because Jesus came to save the Jews! But they needed to know they were sick in order to want the medicine - Him. So Jesus spoke to them from their own LAW to show them they were missing the boat big time.

You're right those 2 commandments were everything the Law & Prophets hung on! But WE do not live according to the Law. We live according to the LORD.

And I'll stay in the same book for you.

Here's what Jesus said several chapters before Matt 22.

Matt 5:20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

And then He proceeds to outline in detail what righteousness surpassed looks like:

Matt 5:21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

And He proceeds to show them, yes this WAS written.... but *I* say... and this is the command of the Lord.

He increases their observance of the Law from what was written to the HEART observance to such a degree He finishes with this:

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

And finishes with this:

48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

You still don't think Jesus is showing them they need a Savior?

I could go through all of Matthew, but I'll sum it up.

He's showing them:

1) Look how far away from the standard you are.
2) You need MY yoke because it's easy and light.

I'm not saying our righteousness doesn't exceed the Pharisees because it does. It's His righteousness and it transforms us so that we might reveal Him on the Earth. Because love fulfills the Law. And we love because He loved us first.

Paul explains this in Phil 3...

4though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more:5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.

7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

10that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,11that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

This is the function of the Christian life. We press forward for what Christ has already given us. And our lives far exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law.

Yes every verse I post is 100% out of context... of couse so they all mean nothing.

Here I will just touch onw one this you said because Im tired of going over and over and it mostly gets ignored. So you said this:

[QUOTE="Cee, post: 3690196, member: 61913"Paul explains this in Phil 3...

as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.

7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ

This is the function of the Christian life. We press forward for what Christ has already given us. And our lives far exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law.[/QUOTE]

Did Paul know the Law as a man of YHWH/Yahshua or as a Pharisee? The pharisees DID NOT follow Yah's Law they made up their own law that made fake loopholes in His Law...

so when Paul says:

Philippians 3:5
New International Version
circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;

that means fake man made law as shown here:

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”

of course one would count that as nothing once they knew Yahshua...

yet you conflate Paul's follow the pharisee law with the Law of YHWH and tell me im out of context....

when Paul was killing believers was he "blameless accoring to?"

pharisee law

or

YHWH;s Law?


Philippians 3:5-7, “Having been circumcised on the eighth day, I am of the nation of Israel, from the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews. As far as the Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee. As for my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church. As far as righteousness in the Law is concerned, I was blameless. But whatever things were assets to me, these I now consider a loss for the sake of the Messiah.”

but yes im using the word out of context right? Really Cee, please answer that one question above. because if Paul was blameslees to YHWH then killing believers is ok. If he is blameless to pharisee law then you use of this crumbles.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

John 11:26
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

 

[Shamah]

you do push works salvation though

you believe a man is kept saved through his works


right?


you believe someone who truely believes in God (Jesus Christ) can still get cast into the lake of fire

based on their works


you do not believe we are saved appart from our works

I believe YHWH saves.

That anyone who has siunned a single sin worthy of death needs His mercy, obtained by the blood of Yahshua (YHWH;s Salvation)

and that nobody can be "good enough" to enter on their own merits.

THIS DOES NOT in any way mean the we are to ignore His COmmands/Instructions/Laws.

and seeking to obey Him is not "justified by works"

only in a mystery of iniquity world would one call obedience bad.

1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Mercy makes me want to obey, the narrow path is not "I got mercy cant ever listen to His Instructions" no its "He forgave me I want to do His will"

the saints have faith in Yahshua and keep His Commands, does not mean they are justified by works, its means this is what they do...

The Scriptures - Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah and the belief of יהושע.

New American Standard Bible - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.


also you guys attack me for saying His Law is right, how can His Law be written in your heart and you accuse anyone that says its right?

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."





Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

 

[Seohce]

it really is heart breaking to see people so confused as to what God teaches us through His inspired written word


i cant count how many times ive explained entire chapters word by word

only to be met with a desperate attempt to change the subject by throwing more out of context verses

IT’S DISAPPOINTING TO LEARN THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CLAIMING TO BE CHRISTIANS CLING OR TRUST MAN MADE DOCTRINES MORE THAN THE TRUTH IN THE SCRIPTURES.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

THESE SELF-PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS WOULD REJECT GOD’S WORDS, LAWS AND COMMANDS TO DEFEND WHAT WAS TAUGHT TO THEM BY THEIR CHURCH LEADERS.

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; THEIR TEACHINGS ARE BUT RULES TAUGHT BY MEN.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who CURSES his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT”

TO THEIR SHAME, THESE PEOPLE CLAIM TO KNOW GOD BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM.( titus 1:16)

THEY CLAIM TO BE ETERNALLY SAVED ALTHOUGH THEY ARE DEAD IN THE EYES OF GOD (rev 3:1-6)

THEY NOT ONLY APPROVE OF THOSE WHO MOCK GOD AND TRAMPLED THE SON OF GOD UNDER FOOT.(psalms 49:13-15)

Hebrews 10:28-29 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

BUT THEY EVEN PRAISE THE ONE WHO CALLS JESUS “CURSED" WHILE MOCKING AND INSULTING THOSE WHO PROMOTE OBEDIENCE TO GOD AND HIS WORD THROUGH THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL..

“WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL JESUS “CURSED” AND TEACHES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORDS AND COMMANDS.”

2 John 1:5-11 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.


“GOD’S WŔATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DIßOBEDIENT”

“GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED"

“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.”

 

[Shamah]

if one believes in Him they will be chaged ny Him and will walk in His ways, to say one believes but never turn to Him shows a disbelief.

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”



Yes if one believes do they do?

John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”

Luke 6:46, “But why do you call Me ‘Master, Master,’ and do not do what I say?”

I think many dont understand what the Biblical definition of faith is:

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by faith."

“faith” is word #H530 אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah (em-oo-naw') n-f., אֱמֻנָה 'emunah (em-oo-naw') [shortened], 1. (literally) firmness., 2. (figuratively) security., 3. (morally) fidelity.

[feminine of H529], KJV: faith(-ful, -ly, -ness, (man)), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily. , Root(s): H529

“faith” is word #H530 Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) 1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness


James 2:19-20, “You believe that Yah is one. You do well. The demons also believe – and shudder! But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead?”

“believe” is word #G4100 - pisteuó: to believe, entrust, Original Word: πιστεύω, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: pisteuó, Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o), Short Definition: I believe, have faith in, Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

->my words will look like this<-

I believe YHWH saves.

saves from what?

That anyone who has siunned a single sin worthy of death needs His mercy, obtained by the blood of Yahshua (YHWH;s Salvation)

agreed... only by Him can we be saved

and that nobody can be "good enough" to enter on their own merits.

agreed again


THIS DOES NOT in any way mean the we are to ignore His COmmands/Instructions/Laws.

no one ever said we are to do this or even suggested it.... it is only the claim we are saved by our performance of these things believers in Christ as our savior will speak up against you




and seeking to obey Him is not "justified by works"

it is if in your belief the merit of your works is the difference between being saved or not AFTER you are born again and an adopted son/daughter now under grace and not the law and you seek to obey for the cause of salvation <- which is a gift...given freely by grace through faith and not of works


only in a mystery of iniquity world would one call obedience bad.

no believer calls anything God wants from us "bad" ... a believer agrees good works are good
and bad works are bad





Mercy makes me want to obey, the narrow path is not "I got mercy cant ever listen to His Instructions" no its "He forgave me I want to do His will"

you seem you to believe it is not "want" but MUST OBEY COMPLETELY IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN MY SALVATION



the saints have faith in Yahshua and keep His Commands, does not mean they are justified by works, its means this is what they do...


I keep His commands out of love for Him who loved me first... not for salvation the GIFT (not reward) i was given by grace through faith




also you guys attack me for saying His Law is right, how can His Law be written in your heart and you accuse anyone that says its right?

never attacked you... though i will continue to call you out for a false gospel .... stop making straw men its about how you say one is saved ( their own walk you are) that you are rebuked

 

[NoNameMcgee]

by their own walk* is what i meant at the end there

not sure what happened to my phone

 

[Shamah]

we may word things differently but we seem to agree on some things, these were the points of contention:

you seem you to believe it is not "want" but MUST OBEY COMPLETELY IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN MY SALVATION

Ok quote a single time that I said this or hinted at it? Im not being rude I am speaking openly, you can not because I have not. But if you can please do.

never attacked you... though i will continue to call you out for a false gospel .... stop making straw men its about how you say one is saved ( their own walk you are) that you are rebuked

Yet these things you say of me you can not produce a single quote of me saying them.

I am going to try to level with you here, text does not convery tone and im being straight up.

I think, that is I think that anyone who preaches, teaches, or promotes that the Law is right and the proper way to follow Yah is somehow thought of as teaching "justified by works" and it seems only scripture that can be viewed as "easy believeisim" are viewed through the lens of that being the only acceptable doctrine and anything that says do His will is "justified by works" I got called a "pharisee lawyer" here because I posted 2 verses that said "those who love Him guard His commands"

Look to me bottom line, is once we accept the Messiah we should seek to do His will, His path His guidance. That is what is in my heart.

 

[Studyman]

="Cee, post: 3690167, member: 61913"]Sure.

Leviticus 21:5 They shall not make bald patches on their heads, nor shave off the edges of their beards, nor make any cuts on their body.

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people:
2 But for his kin, that is near unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his son, and for his daughter, and for his brother,
3 And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband; for her may he be defiled.
4 But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people, to profane himself.
5 They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

I know this instruction was for the Levite Priests, so it does not pertain to me, only the Christ who is my High Priest.

Leviticus 19:27 Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard

.

I know the Word which became Flesh, the Author of this instruction, isn't interested in my facial hair so there is a spiritual meaning to this verse.

But it would be a colossal waste of time sharing with you what study had shown me. And you won't believe it anyway.

The Messiah once said we must drink His Blood and eat His Flesh in order to be saved. Shall I reject all His Word's and listen to other cleaver voices because of such a statement from the Christ?? Or do I accept that God is wiser than me, and more superior to me, and Honor Him by studying His Word to learn what it means as His Word instructed.

Would you be convinced to listen and honor God with obedience if He had not written Lev. 19:27?

I think not. The scriptures have meaning Cee. Just because you can't see them, or believe them, doesn't make them void.

Rom. 3:
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Maybe a man interested in the Grace of Christ might want to "DO" as He instructs to learn these things.

"But Seek ye First the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness".

 

[BillG]

To be continued

 

[Cee]

Yes every verse I post is 100% out of context... of couse so they all mean nothing.

Here I will just touch onw one this you said because Im tired of going over and over and it mostly gets ignored. So you said this:

[QUOTE="Cee, post: 3690196, member: 61913"Paul explains this in Phil 3...

as to the law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.

7But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ

This is the function of the Christian life. We press forward for what Christ has already given us. And our lives far exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law.

Did Paul know the Law as a man of YHWH/Yahshua or as a Pharisee? The pharisees DID NOT follow Yah's Law they made up their own law that made fake loopholes in His Law...

so when Paul says:

Philippians 3:5
New International Version
circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;

that means fake man made law as shown here:

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”

of course one would count that as nothing once they knew Yahshua...

yet you conflate Paul's follow the pharisee law with the Law of YHWH and tell me im out of context....

when Paul was killing believers was he "blameless accoring to?"

pharisee law

or

YHWH;s Law?


Philippians 3:5-7, “Having been circumcised on the eighth day, I am of the nation of Israel, from the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews. As far as the Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee. As for my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church. As far as righteousness in the Law is concerned, I was blameless. But whatever things were assets to me, these I now consider a loss for the sake of the Messiah.”

but yes im using the word out of context right? Really Cee, please answer that one question above. because if Paul was blameslees to YHWH then killing believers is ok. If he is blameless to pharisee law then you use of this crumbles.[/QUOTE]

I understand your objective here.

If you can prove that Paul killed believers then you can say that the Law he said is obsolete wasn't the Law given in the OT. But have you forgotten that David was blameless to the Law and he killed people? Or even Elijah? Or Samuel? These men all killed people. And Scripture records them as being with God.

Abraham killed someone (an Egyptian) and he's called the father of Faith.

Back then "Do not murder" could be justified.

And Scripture doesn't record he killed believers. It records he persecuted them.

Maybe you've forgotten in the Old Covenant there was permission (and a command) to kill people for blasphemy?

Now, the NEW COMMAND, the LAW of Christ which is to love people as *He* loved us changed things.

The Pharisees devoted their entire lives to keeping the Law. Being blameless meant they were covered by the sacrifices of the temple, which was a picture of their faith in Jesus. Because no one was righteous before God. No one. So there's a difference there. Job and Noah are also both recorded as being blameless.

You obviously an issue with killing. And you believe it to be against the Law of God. So many people were killed in the OT. And it was perfectly okay according to the Old Covenant ways. Tell me again how Jesus' blood ratified it?

 

[Cee]

Leviticus 21:5 They shall not make bald patches on their heads, nor shave off the edges of their beards, nor make any cuts on their body.

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people:
2 But for his kin, that is near unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his son, and for his daughter, and for his brother,
3 And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband; for her may he be defiled.
4 But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people, to profane himself.
5 They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

I know this instruction was for the Levite Priests, so it does not pertain to me, only the Christ who is my High Priest.


.

I know the Word which became Flesh, the Author of this instruction, isn't interested in my facial hair so there is a spiritual meaning to this verse.

But it would be a colossal waste of time sharing with you what study had shown me. And you won't believe it anyway.

The Messiah once said we must drink His Blood and eat His Flesh in order to be saved. Shall I reject all His Word's and listen to other cleaver voices because of such a statement from the Christ?? Or do I accept that God is wiser than me, and more superior to me, and Honor Him by studying His Word to learn what it means as His Word instructed.

Would you be convinced to listen and honor God with obedience if He had not written Lev. 19:27?

I think not. The scriptures have meaning Cee. Just because you can't see them, or believe them, doesn't make them void.

Rom. 3:
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Maybe a man interested in the Grace of Christ might want to "DO" as He instructs to learn these things.

"But Seek ye First the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness".

In Christ, are you a priest and a king? You are now the temple of God. Or did you forget that?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

we may word things differently but we seem to agree on some things, these were the points of contention:



Ok quote a single time that I said this or hinted at it? Im not being rude I am speaking openly, you can not because I have not. But if you can please do.



Yet these things you say of me you can not produce a single quote of me saying them.

I am going to try to level with you here, text does not convery tone and im being straight up.

I think, that is I think that anyone who preaches, teaches, or promotes that the Law is right and the proper way to follow Yah is somehow thought of as teaching "justified by works" and it seems only scripture that can be viewed as "easy believeisim" are viewed through the lens of that being the only acceptable doctrine and anything that says do His will is "justified by works" I got called a "pharisee lawyer" here because I posted 2 verses that said "those who love Him guard His commands"

Look to me bottom line, is once we accept the Messiah we should seek to do His will, His path His guidance. That is what is in my heart.

"as long as Gentiles took part of the things/ways of Yah they are always "grafted in" or considered a part of Israyl"


here is a quote from you.... what do you mean by this?

it doesnt sound like by faith through grace the gentiles recieve the gift (not reward) of salvation to me

also you have implied a born again believer
a child of God.... saved already

can be ultimately cast into the lake of fire depending on their works

 

[Shamah]

Did Paul know the Law as a man of YHWH/Yahshua or as a Pharisee? The pharisees DID NOT follow Yah's Law they made up their own law that made fake loopholes in His Law...

so when Paul says:

Philippians 3:5
New International Version
circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;

that means fake man made law as shown here:

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”

of course one would count that as nothing once they knew Yahshua...

yet you conflate Paul's follow the pharisee law with the Law of YHWH and tell me im out of context....

when Paul was killing believers was he "blameless accoring to?"

pharisee law

or

YHWH;s Law?


Philippians 3:5-7, “Having been circumcised on the eighth day, I am of the nation of Israel, from the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews. As far as the Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee. As for my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church. As far as righteousness in the Law is concerned, I was blameless. But whatever things were assets to me, these I now consider a loss for the sake of the Messiah.”

but yes im using the word out of context right? Really Cee, please answer that one question above. because if Paul was blameslees to YHWH then killing believers is ok. If he is blameless to pharisee law then you use of this crumbles.

I understand your objective here.

If you can prove that Paul killed believers then you can say that the Law he said is obsolete wasn't the Law given in the OT. But have you forgotten that David was blameless to the Law and he killed people? Or even Elijah? Or Samuel? These men all killed people. And Scripture records them as being with God.

Abraham killed someone (an Egyptian) and he's called the father of Faith.

Back then "Do not murder" could be justified.

And Scripture doesn't record he killed believers. It records he persecuted them.

Maybe you've forgotten in the Old Covenant there was permission (and a command) to kill people for blasphemy?

Now, the LAW of Christ, which is to love people as *He* loved us changes things.

The Pharisees devoted their entire lives to keeping the Law. Being blameless meant they were covered by the sacrifices of the temple. Because we no one was righteous before God. No one. So there's a difference there. Job and Noah are also both recorded as being blameless.

So many people were killed in the OT. And it was perfectly okay according to the Old Covenant ways. Tell me again how Jesus blood ratified it?[/QUOTE]

Paul admits what he did against the followers of Messiah.

and you beinging Daivid into it has nothign to do with Paul follow Yah;s Law or pharisee law when he grew up.

also carrying out judgement was and is a prat of the Law what do you think Yahsua is going to do when He returns? He will fulfill His role as judge.

ALso you didnt answer my question....

The Pharisees devoted their entire lives to keeping the Law.

except the Messiah says they "nullify Yah;s Law by their (pharisee) tradition:

Mat 15:3-9, “But He answering, said to them, “Why do you also transgress the command of YHWH because of your tradition? For YHWH has commanded, saying, ‘Respect your father and your mother,’ ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me has been dedicated, is certainly released from respecting his father or mother.’ So you have nullified the command of YHWH by your tradition."Hypocrites! Well did Isayah (29:13-14*) prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."

but yes everything I post is out of context...

 

[Cee]

Did Paul know the Law as a man of YHWH/Yahshua or as a Pharisee? The pharisees DID NOT follow Yah's Law they made up their own law that made fake loopholes in His Law...

so when Paul says:

Philippians 3:5
New International Version
circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;

that means fake man made law as shown here:

Mark 7:1-9, “And the Pharisees and some of the scribes assembled to Him, having come from Yerushalayim. And seeing some of His taught ones eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. For the Pharisees, and all the Yehuḏim, do not eat unless they wash their hands thoroughly, holding fast the tradition of the elders, and coming from the market-place, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions which they have received and hold fast – the washing of cups and utensils and copper vessels and couches. Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your taught ones not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? And He answering, said to them, “Well did Yeshayahu prophesy concerning you hypocrites, as it has been written, ‘This people respect Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commands of men.’ Forsaking the command of YHWH, you hold fast the tradition of men. And He said to them, “Well do you set aside the command of YHWH, in order to guard your tradition.”

of course one would count that as nothing once they knew Yahshua...

yet you conflate Paul's follow the pharisee law with the Law of YHWH and tell me im out of context....

when Paul was killing believers was he "blameless accoring to?"

pharisee law

or

YHWH;s Law?


Philippians 3:5-7, “Having been circumcised on the eighth day, I am of the nation of Israel, from the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews. As far as the Law is concerned, I was a Pharisee. As for my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church. As far as righteousness in the Law is concerned, I was blameless. But whatever things were assets to me, these I now consider a loss for the sake of the Messiah.”

but yes im using the word out of context right? Really Cee, please answer that one question above. because if Paul was blameslees to YHWH then killing believers is ok. If he is blameless to pharisee law then you use of this crumbles.

I understand your objective here.

If you can prove that Paul killed believers then you can say that the Law he said is obsolete wasn't the Law given in the OT. But have you forgotten that David was blameless to the Law and he killed people? Or even Elijah? Or Samuel? These men all killed people. And Scripture records them as being with God.

Abraham killed someone (an Egyptian) and he's called the father of Faith.

Back then "Do not murder" could be justified.

And Scripture doesn't record he killed believers. It records he persecuted them.

Maybe you've forgotten in the Old Covenant there was permission (and a command) to kill people for blasphemy?

Now, the NEW COMMAND, the LAW of Christ which is to love people as *He* loved us changed things.

The Pharisees devoted their entire lives to keeping the Law. Being blameless meant they were covered by the sacrifices of the temple, which was a picture of their faith in Jesus. Because no one was righteous before God. No one. So there's a difference there. Job and Noah are also both recorded as being blameless.

You obviously an issue with killing. And you believe it to be against the Law of God. So many people were killed in the OT. And it was perfectly okay according to the Old Covenant ways. Tell me again how Jesus' blood ratified it?[/QUOTE]

Weird, not sure what happened to my post, but my writing starts at: "I understand your objective here." Everything before it was Shamah.

 

[TruthTalk]

To be continued

Amen! Judaizer's zero - Christians win!