If homosexuality is a sin, then why didn't Jesus say anything about it?

[preston39]

Yes Christs atonement was sufficient to save the whole world, but only the elect of God choose to believe because they have the gift of faith which enables them to believe the Gospel when they hear it.

God didn't give that gift to everyone, all of those who don't have the gift of faith will go to the grave rejecting the Gospel so they are lost and it's impossible to convince one of them to believe the Gospel.

Only those who God preordained and elected will believe, the rest will never. There were many of these (unbelievers) or reprobate who saw Jesus perform miracles and they heard Him preaching and they witnessed Him return for the dead and they still didn't believe, because they were not the elect of God.

My family is Roman Catholic, I have been sharing the Gospel with them and pleading with them to repent and give their lives to Christ but they all reject the Gospel and they refuse to accept Christ as the Lord of their lives. They "believe in Jesus" just as the Demons do, but they don't tremble.

The Catholic Jesus allows everyone to live their lives the way they see fit, as long as they try to be good and confess their sins when they become a burden. He doesn't demand much from those who believe in Him, He only asks them to try their best and that will be enough to make your stay in purgatory short.

The Bible tells us that we can never convince the reprobate to accept the Gospel, only Gods elect will.

S...,
In this instance, can we say that ...the non elect of G-d.... are those who's heart has hardened and they reject Christ and the opportunity for eternal salvation?

While I am aware of related writings in scripture, I fail to see confirmation that G-d would uni-laterally turn His back on some folks.

 

[Slayer]

S...,
In this instance, can we say that ...the non elect of G-d.... are those who's heart has hardened and they reject Christ and the opportunity for eternal salvation?

While I am aware of related writings in scripture, I fail to see confirmation that G-d would uni-laterally turn His back on some folks.

The Bible is very clear, God does turn some over to their sin. All God has to do is leave a person alone and that person will end up in hell because they are totally depraved. All of us are born totally depraved, so God has to do all the necessary work to save us, all we contribute is a stinking corpse.

 

[Embankment]

LOOK...

A man having sex with another man IS A SIN. A woman having sex with another woman IS A SIN.

'Nuff said..

A man having sex with a woman he is not married to is a sin.

 

[Slayer]

A man having sex with a woman he is not married to is a sin.

Yes but a man having sex with another man is much worse, we know God chose to save adulteress and murderers and give them great kingdoms like He did with David and Moses but God never saved or used homosexuals for anything. All we know is He destroyed them in the worst possible way and His Word says they will never inherit His kingdom.

 

[preston39]

A man having sex with a woman he is not married to is a sin.

E...,

Are you suggesting one sin is lesser/greater than the other?
What is your point here?

 

[Dino246]

Yes but a man having sex with another man is much worse, we know God chose to save adulteress and murderers and give them great kingdoms like He did with David and Moses but God never saved or used homosexuals for anything. All we know is He destroyed them in the worst possible way and His Word says they will never inherit His kingdom.

The Scripture disagrees with you...

1 Cor 6:9-11 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Slayer]

The Scripture disagrees with you...

1 Cor 6:9-11 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

I committed most of those sins listed in 1 Cor 6:9-11. After I was converted I went back and committed all of those sins and then came back and repented and then after some time I went back again and again and again. This went on for many years and God forgave me and accepted me back into His Church every single time.

So I believe that scripture doesn't apply to the elect, we will never be lost no matter how much we sin or how long we remain in sin. God will always forgive us because Her shows mercy to His elect, but the reprobate will pay for every single sin they have ever committed.

 

[Dino246]

I committed most of those sins listed in 1 Cor 6:9-11. After I was converted I went back and committed all of those sins and then came back and repented and then after some time I went back again and again and again. This went on for many years and God forgave me and accepted me back into His Church every single time.

So I believe that scripture doesn't apply to the elect, we will never be lost no matter how much we sin or how long we remain in sin. God will always forgive us because Her shows mercy to His elect, but the reprobate will pay for every single sin they have ever committed.

... which has almost nothing to do with your earlier post to which I responded.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I committed most of those sins listed in 1 Cor 6:9-11. After I was converted I went back and committed all of those sins and then came back and repented and then after some time I went back again and again and again. This went on for many years and God forgave me and accepted me back into His Church every single time.

So I believe that scripture doesn't apply to the elect, we will never be lost no matter how much we sin or how long we remain in sin. God will always forgive us because Her shows mercy to His elect, but the reprobate will pay for every single sin they have ever committed.

I see

so you are good with rejoicing in punishment of the those terrible sinners, but of course you are good with your own

you know, I knew someone like that once. he was forever after people about their 'sins' and in fact would say we are going to pray with you and help you out here but you have to confess your sins...and of course using the Bible to back up his little get together

well, people actually went along with some of that because they wanted to be 'right' with God

so one day, someone said 'well, I think it should be your turn now...'

and that was met with 'me? I confessed my sins to God and so I don't have to confess them to you or anyone else.'


you do not seem to understand that the elect are those who believe in Christ whether or not YOU personally approve of them

perhaps you see yourself as the man in the little true story above. you make the sins of others your business but whitewash your own, call yourself elect, straighten out your robes and walk over those who question your desire to annihilate those you cannot save personally but seem to wish to punish personally

now I actually do not care how you respond, but for the sake of those who are not familiar with your prattling about your righteousness, I would like to draw attention to how you think you have been forgiven no matter how many times you have bounced back and forth between living for the devil and living for your Savior, while literally longing for the rest of the sinful to be punished

you can't make this stuff up

and if anyone thinks I am being harsh, or exaggerating, I invite you to read his posts in other threads

I will actually agree that far too many Christians seem to think lightly of sin and some go so far as to say that it does not matter if they sin because all their sins were forgiven 2000 years ago...which has been debated in this forum to the point the mods prefer we do not bring it up...

however, it seems that we have a new debate that continues here day after day and that is whether or not anyone can accept Christ and believe in Him, as scripture says, or only those who are persuaded by Calvinist leanings are saved and the rest of us are just 'wishful thinking'

such absurdity can only occur when one chooses to believe the best about themself while eschewing everyone else

people are not destined to go to hell because God desires to send them there. and no one is so wonderful that God decides they are going to their reward of eternal life no matter how much they sin.

IMO, if someone is bouncing back and forth, seems they cannot make up their mind and simply believe they are gold no matter what

just my 2.5 cents

 

[Slayer]

... which has almost nothing to do with your earlier post to which I responded.

I was trying to say that homosexual sex (sodomy) is a worse sin than adultery. It's very rare to hear of homosexuals who were converted and then went back to practicing homosexuality and repenting and coming back to the Church over and over for many years.

At least I haven't heard of any such cases, but I've heard of many including myself who committed adultery and all kinds of other sins after making a profession of faith in Christ.

My understanding is that God has a special hatred for homosexuality, so it's very rare to hear of homosexuals being saved.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I was trying to say that homosexual sex (sodomy) is a worse sin than adultery. It's very rare to hear of homosexuals who were converted and then went back to practicing homosexuality and repenting and coming back to the Church over and over for many years.

At least I haven't heard of any such cases, but I've heard of many including myself who committed adultery and all kinds of other sins after making a profession of faith in Christ.

My understanding is that God has a special hatred for homosexuality, so it's very rare to hear of homosexuals being saved.

actually you are wrong

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin, whatever if a man might do, is outside the body, but the one sinning sexually sins against the own body.
I Corinthian 6:18

we are told to stand against the wiles of the devil in Ephesians, but when it comes to sexual sin, we are told to do a Joseph..run away as fast as you can because it will be your downfall.

if God were to destroy every city with sexual sin, humans would all disappear...just like during the flood...save for one family saved through the righteousness of one man..an illustration of God saving us through His Son..whether or not they are sodomites

fornication, adultery...in fact even gluttons...(that could mean more than just food possibly) are NOT gonna make it

so don't pick a sin that you think is worse than the others because any sin will do but ALL sexual sin will send you to hell if unrepented of and unforgiven

but don't take my word for it. their are multiples of Bible interpretations online and they all say the same thing

I have no expectation you will admit to being wrong but that doesn't matter. no one is trying to convince you of anything at this point, I would suspect, but in case others are not aware...because sadly, way too many neglect their Bibles these days and are spoon fed someone else's interpretations who may or may not, be on track

 

[Slayer]

I see

so you are good with rejoicing in punishment of the those terrible sinners, but of course you are good with your own

you know, I knew someone like that once. he was forever after people about their 'sins' and in fact would say we are going to pray with you and help you out here but you have to confess your sins...and of course using the Bible to back up his little get together

well, people actually went along with some of that because they wanted to be 'right' with God

so one day, someone said 'well, I think it should be your turn now...'

and that was met with 'me? I confessed my sins to God and so I don't have to confess them to you or anyone else.'


you do not seem to understand that the elect are those who believe in Christ whether or not YOU personally approve of them

perhaps you see yourself as the man in the little true story above. you make the sins of others your business but whitewash your own, call yourself elect, straighten out your robes and walk over those who question your desire to annihilate those you cannot save personally but seem to wish to punish personally

now I actually do not care how you respond, but for the sake of those who are not familiar with your prattling about your righteousness, I would like to draw attention to how you think you have been forgiven no matter how many times you have bounced back and forth between living for the devil and living for your Savior, while literally longing for the rest of the sinful to be punished

you can't make this stuff up

and if anyone thinks I am being harsh, or exaggerating, I invite you to read his posts in other threads

I will actually agree that far too many Christians seem to think lightly of sin and some go so far as to say that it does not matter if they sin because all their sins were forgiven 2000 years ago...which has been debated in this forum to the point the mods prefer we do not bring it up...

however, it seems that we have a new debate that continues here day after day and that is whether or not anyone can accept Christ and believe in Him, as scripture says, or only those who are persuaded by Calvinist leanings are saved and the rest of us are just 'wishful thinking'

such absurdity can only occur when one chooses to believe the best about themself while eschewing everyone else

people are not destined to go to hell because God desires to send them there. and no one is so wonderful that God decides they are going to their reward of eternal life no matter how much they sin.

IMO, if someone is bouncing back and forth, seems they cannot make up their mind and simply believe they are gold no matter what

just my 2.5 cents

If you read what I said a few posts ago, you would know that I don't claim to deserve God favor and I don't know why He chooses to draw some to Himself and leave others in their sin. That's Gods own prerogative, He has every right to do what ever He wants with His creation.

I admitted that some of my Christian friends who went back to the world never came back, God left them lost in their sin and it looks like they are never coming back. They have no further interest in the things of God, yet they haven't committed half as bad sins as I did. I don't feel worthy to be forgiven so many times, after as you rightly stated I went back to serving the Devil.

I take comfort in reading about other sinners who were forgiven for doing similar things, like David who committed adultery and murder so that tells me that if God chooses to save someone He will save them no matter how much they have sinned. Remember Jesus told the man who asked how many times he should forgive his brother 7 times, and Jesus answered 70 times 7

So God has forgiven me at least 7x70 and I'm eternal grateful to Him, I have no further desire to fornicate or commit adultery. My wife is a very pure person, she is the exact opposite of me. She was a virgin when I met her and she is 11 years younger, she never did alcohol or drugs and she has no enemies. Everyone who knows her loves her, she says that she never would have married me if she knew how many girls I had taken advantage of and all the drugs I did and violent crime I committed.

She is not a Christian, I've have been trying to share the gospel with her but she is quite stubborn. She sees herself as being much less sinful than me so she doesn't feel the need to repent, but I told her she must or she will go to hell if she dies without repenting and giving her life to the Lord.

She hasn't been able to leave my past in the past, she likes to use it against me and I tell her that she is committing a great sin by using something that God has forgiven me for against me. She doesn't think I should get away with so much sin, just for repenting. But what can you expect from an unbeliever, but I'm surprised to see people here holding my sins against me.

 

[Slayer]

actually you are wrong

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin, whatever if a man might do, is outside the body, but the one sinning sexually sins against the own body.
I Corinthian 6:18

we are told to stand against the wiles of the devil in Ephesians, but when it comes to sexual sin, we are told to do a Joseph..run away as fast as you can because it will be your downfall.

if God were to destroy every city with sexual sin, humans would all disappear...just like during the flood...save for one family saved through the righteousness of one man..an illustration of God saving us through His Son..whether or not they are sodomites

fornication, adultery...in fact even gluttons...(that could mean more than just food possibly) are NOT gonna make it

so don't pick a sin that you think is worse than the others because any sin will do but ALL sexual sin will send you to hell if unrepented of and unforgiven

but don't take my word for it. their are multiples of Bible interpretations online and they all say the same thing

I have no expectation you will admit to being wrong but that doesn't matter. no one is trying to convince you of anything at this point, I would suspect, but in case others are not aware...because sadly, way too many neglect their Bibles these days and are spoon fed someone else's interpretations who may or may not, be on track

You are 100% right, nobody can deny that what you're saying here is absolutely true. But everything I read in the Bible about homosexuality, seems to say that God particularly hates that sin more than general fornication.

I heard a preacher say, using the Bible to back his sermon that Sodomy or men having anal sex is almost as bad as Bestiality and pedophilia because all of these are unnatural and Demonic.

Fornication was a way of life for me since the age of around 12 so I had a hard time overcoming that besetting sin. I would still be doing it, if God didn't give me the strength to finally overcome the temptation and run away from it.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You are 100% right, nobody can deny that what you're saying here is absolutely true. But everything I read in the Bible about homosexuality, seems to say that God particularly hates that sin more than general fornication.

I heard a preacher say, using the Bible to back his sermon that Sodomy or men having anal sex is almost as bad as Bestiality and pedophilia because all of these are unnatural and Demonic.

Fornication was a way of life for me since the age of around 12 so I had a hard time overcoming that besetting sin. I would still be doing it, if God didn't give me the strength to finally overcome the temptation and run away from it.

yet, ALL sexual sin is unacceptable

it represents the opposite of what God created it for

the NT tells us that marriage is a picture of Christ and the church (people not buildings)

marriage is a covenant relationship and so is our relationship with Christ

so, anything outside of that is thumbing it's nose at what God created

you may have missed the point that ALL sin is unacceptable

frankly, I find that gossip destroys lives perhaps even easier than sexual sin

people should flee from that also instead of pulling up a chair and sitting down to chew on another believer

frankly, I think that is the devil's table

nonetheless, I am not going to spout that off as doctrine because it isn't...although it is described also as sin

we cannot get away from FLEE sexual immorality while being told to stand against the devil in other cases

that prob says an awful lot about human sinful nature

ps...if you look up sodomy it will include having sex with animals as well. perversion, but that is sin having expression

 

[preston39]

I committed most of those sins listed in 1 Cor 6:9-11. After I was converted I went back and committed all of those sins and then came back and repented and then after some time I went back again and again and again. This went on for many years and God forgave me and accepted me back into His Church every single time.

So I believe that scripture doesn't apply to the elect, we will never be lost no matter how much we sin or how long we remain in sin. God will always forgive us because Her shows mercy to His elect, but the reprobate will pay for every single sin they have ever committed.

S...,
G-d is forgiving and merciful. However, should you have left this earth during one of your periods of sinfulness...you would have been lost. I know some who left us in that state.....not a good thing.

There is not such animal as OSAS.

Also, we must acknowledge that we are not .....saved......until death, judgement and G-d says we have eternal salvation. Until then we are repented, baptized and living a righteous life. To conclude otherwise is to usurp G-d's authority to apply judgement.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If you read what I said a few posts ago, you would know that I don't claim to deserve God favor and I don't know why He chooses to draw some to Himself and leave others in their sin. That's Gods own prerogative, He has every right to do what ever He wants with His creation.

I admitted that some of my Christian friends who went back to the world never came back, God left them lost in their sin and it looks like they are never coming back. They have no further interest in the things of God, yet they haven't committed half as bad sins as I did. I don't feel worthy to be forgiven so many times, after as you rightly stated I went back to serving the Devil.

I take comfort in reading about other sinners who were forgiven for doing similar things, like David who committed adultery and murder so that tells me that if God chooses to save someone He will save them no matter how much they have sinned. Remember Jesus told the man who asked how many times he should forgive his brother 7 times, and Jesus answered 70 times 7

So God has forgiven me at least 7x70 and I'm eternal grateful to Him, I have no further desire to fornicate or commit adultery. My wife is a very pure person, she is the exact opposite of me. She was a virgin when I met her and she is 11 years younger, she never did alcohol or drugs and she has no enemies. Everyone who knows her loves her, she says that she never would have married me if she knew how many girls I had taken advantage of and all the drugs I did and violent crime I committed.

She is not a Christian, I've have been trying to share the gospel with her but she is quite stubborn. She sees herself as being much less sinful than me so she doesn't feel the need to repent, but I told her she must or she will go to hell if she dies without repenting and giving her life to the Lord.

She hasn't been able to leave my past in the past, she likes to use it against me and I tell her that she is committing a great sin by using something that God has forgiven me for against me. She doesn't think I should get away with so much sin, just for repenting. But what can you expect from an unbeliever, but I'm surprised to see people here holding my sins against me.

if I may say a few things without wanting to hurt you here?

well if you express your desire to see sinners punished around your wife, perhaps she is thinking you are a hypocrite? I don't know how you talk to her...I only know the things you have written in this forum and beyond this thread of course

I guess you should have had that conversation before you married her. my husband and I certainly had some conversations and frankly I am little black sheep compared to him, even though I was saved at 5, but he UNDERSTANDS that it is not OUR righteousness that deserves salvation.

I'm sorry that your wife cannot let things go but we do create our own messes...me too

no one deserves God's mercy...that is why His mercy and unfailing love is called mercy

ALL of our righteousness is a filthy rag to God (OT) but still true and that includes anything we do to EARN God's favor

my point in all of the back forth we have had in various threads, is that we do not know who God will save. God is not offering a limited timeshare plan for salvation...but WHOSOEVER WILL

if you keep witnessing to your wife, are you not hoping and praying she will come around? if Jesus died only for the 'elect' does that mean we do not need to witness because only God knows who they are?

do you think that when you look at your wife? (just trying to reason here and not insult you at all)

That's Gods own prerogative, He has every right to do what ever He wants with His creation

that's a failure to understand that God does not act OUTSIDE of His character. when He says whosoever will that is what He means...He does not mean 'whosoever I let come to me' or 'even if you want to believe I will not let you because I reject you'

sorry that doesn't make sense. the Calvinist viewpoint makes 0 + 0 sense to me and I tend to look at things from a logical viewpoint. it has to make sense to my mind in a way that satisfies the totally and perfect order to things created by God

the fact you believe your wife can be saved either means you wait for God to move or you pray for God to move and if I were you I would do the latter, believing that a person I love will come into God's kingdom

well that's a lot to read, but I'm thinking out loud in response to what you wrote

I just do not believe that whosoever will means not little Sally even if she wants to

 

[preston39]

I was trying to say that homosexual sex (sodomy) is a worse sin than adultery. It's very rare to hear of homosexuals who were converted and then went back to practicing homosexuality and repenting and coming back to the Church over and over for many years.

At least I haven't heard of any such cases, but I've heard of many including myself who committed adultery and all kinds of other sins after making a profession of faith in Christ.

My understanding is that God has a special hatred for homosexuality, so it's very rare to hear of homosexuals being saved.

S...,

It seems G-d holds some sins as more repugnant than others.....although...a sin is a sin. Witness the fact that He segregates homosexuality and liars for special condemnation...calling them ...an abomination.

I wish the pope and catholic priests would take heed.

 

[Embankment]

There is only one sin. The sin of not trusting God. We are all 100% guilty. No big sin or little sins. Check out the plank in your on eye.

 

[Dino246]

I was trying to say that homosexual sex (sodomy) is a worse sin than adultery. It's very rare to hear of homosexuals who were converted and then went back to practicing homosexuality and repenting and coming back to the Church over and over for many years.

At least I haven't heard of any such cases, but I've heard of many including myself who committed adultery and all kinds of other sins after making a profession of faith in Christ.

My understanding is that God has a special hatred for homosexuality, so it's very rare to hear of homosexuals being saved.

Whether God considers any sin "worse" than any other is not well-supported in Scripture. There is only one punishment (death) and only one adequate response (Christ's death). Instead of treating (and thinking of) people differently according to your opinion of their sin, treat them according to God's solution for it.

 

[preston39]

The Bible is very clear, God does turn some over to their sin. All God has to do is leave a person alone and that person will end up in hell because they are totally depraved......

S...
What you are depicting is when The Holy Spirit leaves a person.