Not By Works
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So you are eternally secure, based on God alone, am i correct? You have no believe by your own lack of faith you could forfiet salvation correct?
I am not skirting, your still not answering my wuestion.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Some people do not like to admit it is God who finshes our faith, not ouselves, they refuse to give control tthe god, then get mad when peopl call them out on it.
"Works Righteousness" is a creation of man, not Jesus.
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
How can a man separate Abraham's honor towards the Word which became Flesh, from His Faith in the Word which became Flesh?
Gen. 12:
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him
How can you separate Abram's Honor, respect and obedience to God, from his Faith in God?
I don't believe Jesus did, and I certainly won't, even if you do.
Gen. 26:
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
I didn't write the examples Jesus prepared for my admonition, I just "believe" them.
I don't believe God needs my help to save me. I asked several questions and posted scriptures for your consideration. Why can't you simply address them?
Hi Eg, no disrespect here but could you put a name on who you are asking a question to.
I enjoy reading your posts but this one is hard to follow - there is no name or quote?
God bless.....
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Why cant you answer my 1 simple question
As i said, we have been over those passages time and time again, we get no where, because it does not resolve the main issue,
You say you do nt believe god helps you, just prove it by tellingthe room you believe you do not have to maintain your salvation at any cost, even your faith.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You probably like many have him on ignore. It is studyman.Hi Eg, no disrespect here but could you put a name on who you are asking a question to.
I enjoy reading your posts but this one is hard to follow - there is no name or quote?
God bless.....
Yep been so long I forgot, thank you a lot....
I believe what the Bible teaches, all of it EG. I don't believe the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by keeping the commandments of God, because Jesus says they didn't. But this is what you preach anyway. So we have had disagreements in religious doctrines.
Now you are preaching that if I choose to do as the Christ instructs it means that I believe He needs my help for salvation. I posted scriptures which bring your statements into the Light and you refuse to address them. I supposed it is just easier to make stuff up about people than to address disagreements.
As far as eternal security, Jesus said;
Matt. 24:
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Rom. 11:
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
I could go on and on. The scriptures I posted and the questions I posed were relevant to this discussion. Just because you have declared you are saved and there is nothing you or Jesus, Moses, or God Almighty can do to change that doesn't make it true.
The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time were also convinced they were all set but they were not.
Is that because Jesus wasn't powerful enough to save them? Was it because they refused to help Him save them?
Should I listen to you or Jesus for my answer?
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
So EG, it wasn't about what Jesus did, or had the power to do. They were rejected because of what "THEY DID". They didn't believe this, their preachers didn't teach them this. God did, but they refused to listen to Him.
Why, was it because God wasn't powerful enough to save them? No EG. That preaching is not true.
Rom. 1:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, (maybe a long haired men's hair shampoo model) and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Jesus even gave examples of people who believed in Him, who called Him Lord, Lord, who thought they were "eternally secured", but they were not.
You are free to preach you are already immortal, already saved and nothing you can do will change that. I don't believe this way because Jesus told me to "Take Heed" lest I also become deceived as did those in Matt. 7.
No, it is a belief NOT IN THE FINISHED WORK OF SALVATION BY JESUS CHRIST, it is a false belief that JESUS did His part, now I must do the rest.
SALVATION WAS COMPLETE WHEN HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD,
A FREE GIFT OF GOD. If we WERE SAVED, PAST TENSE, out of
LOVE FOR HIM, we will so our LOVE for HIM in our Obedience.
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Thanks, you just proved me right,
End of discussion.
Now stop insisting you trust god when you do not
Senioritus strikes again. That last half of the last sentence should read:
we will show our LOVE for HIM in our Obedience.
That is popular preaching to be sure. My problem with much of this preaching comes from what scripture actually says.
Matt. 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Eph. 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of (man's) works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
1 Cor. 3:
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
He gives the instructions, His people follows them. Labourers together.
1 Cor. 15:
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
Ph. 2:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
Col. 1:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
Jesus, as the Word, created HIS Feasts to show His Salvation plan. They begin with Passover. This is the beginning of God's Salvation, not the end as you imply.
So Jesus did His part. Now it's time for me to mine.
Mark. 8:34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
As Paul teaches all men.
Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
We just have a fundamental disagreement about what the Lord teaches.
So proud a soul I have never known - could you stand before Jesus and say your words, I think not.
For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Repent and believe the Gospel
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector: Luke18:9-14
9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Seems to me Studyman is saying He wants to do the will of Messiah...So In your view would seeking to be a doulos/bond slave of the Messiah wanting to do His will be exalting oneself or humbling oneself?
None of us are perfect, we all have struggles, we have all sinned, yet the way I see it, the person that uses the strength, mind, body and will YHWH has given them and chooses to use it seeking Yah's will. That would be the definition of humbling oneself before Yah...
Matthew 25:14-30,
14 for it is like a man going from home, who called his own servants and delivered his possessions to them."
15 “And to one he gave five talents, and to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability, and went from home."
16 “And he who had received the five talents went and worked with them, and made another five talents."
17 “In the same way, he with the two also, he gained two more."
18 “But he who had received the one went away and dug in the ground, and hid the silver of his master."
19 “And after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them."
20 “And he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents. See, I have gained five more talents besides them.’"
21 “And his master said to him, ‘Well done, good and trustworthy servant. You were trustworthy over a little, I shall set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’"
22 “Then he who had received two talents came and said, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents. See, I have gained two more talents besides them.’"
23 “His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and trustworthy servant. You were trustworthy over a little, I shall set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’"
24 “And the one who had received the one talent also came and said, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed,"
25 and being afraid, I went and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.’"
26 “And his master answering, said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed."
27 Then you should have put my silver with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest."
28 Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to him who possesses ten talents."
29 ‘For to everyone who possesses, more shall be given, and he shall have overflowingly; but from him who does not possess, even what he possesses shall be taken away.
30 And throw the worthless servant out into the outer darkness – there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’"
The day when seeking to do His will is criticised as "exalting oneself" is the day the grace perversion is iniquity (Lawlessness).
1 Peter 2:16, “as free, yet not using your freedom as a cloak for evil, but as servants of the Mighty One.”
“servants” is word #G1401 δοῦλος doulos (d̮ou'-los) n.
1. (involuntarily) a slave.
2. (of necessity) a bond-servant.
3. (figuratively) a voluntary, fully devoted servant.
{literal or figurative, involuntary or voluntary; frequently, therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency
[from G1210]
KJV: bond(-man), servant
Root(s): G1210
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."
Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”
“servants” is word #G1401 δοῦλος doulos (d̮ou'-los) n.
1. (involuntarily) a slave.
2. (of necessity) a bond-servant.
3. (figuratively) a voluntary, fully devoted servant.
{literal or figurative, involuntary or voluntary; frequently, therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency
[from G1210]
KJV: bond(-man), servant
Root(s): G1210
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."
Mat 7:24-27, “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”
I marvel how you guys can erase God's Word from my post as though they were not there, and exalt yourself in such a manner with no shame or consciousness. As though such behavior is honest and Christ like and not evil.
But then I remember how the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time treated Him and His Apostles when they shared His Word with them. Then I Glory in the Wisdom and Perfect Power of the Christ to know 2000 years ago how you would respond to His Words, and to those who strive to follow them. So I am encouraged by your scorn.
you see, a simple and straightforward response to my original post in the yoke of bondage thread would have been for you to offer a story of someone coming to Christ in your church, group or even you personally leading someone to it.
of course , if you have no such story, then the next best option would be to mock my story, attack me for pointing out that simply telling someone the truth of God loves them, sent His Son to die for the forgiveness of their sins, and that Christ can heal their pain, and attempt to smear me as lowlife for calling out your failed man-made religion.
now, let's see, what did you do????
And you just described WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS in you OPENING COMMENT.
Used the way you worded it is a pretty good indication that you believe SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION is all part of the SALVATION PROCESS. SALVATION WAS BOUGHT and PAID FOR ON THE CROSS, lock, stock, and barrel, and HE GAVE IT TO US AS A GIFT. Sanctification is a process where we strive to become more and more like CHRIST HIMSELF, and it will NOT be complete until HE GIVES US THE GLORIFIED BODY THAT CANNOT EVEN THINK A SIN, at the Resurrection.
Now let's look at what it REALLY SAYS:
Matthew 10:22 (HCSB)
22 You will be hated by everyone because of My name. But the one who endures to the end will be delivered.
You see that Greek word "sôzô", has several different Meanings. It can mean delivered, restored, preserved, cured, made well, and recovered. SINCE WE KNOW THAT GOD SAID "You have been SAVED by GRACE through FAITH, and that is NOT of yourselves, it is the Gift of GOD." It cannot mean SALVATION, in that instance, IT HAS TO BE ONE OF THE OTHER MEANINGS. WHY? BECAUSE GOD DID NOT MAKE ANY CONTRADICTIONS, it is US that made the mistake, NOT GOD.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.
John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them {Born Again}, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
Romans 3:23-24 (HCSB)
23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
24 They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Romans 5:1 (HCSB)
1 Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Your Works of Righteousness and your Obediences HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION. IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE FOR HIM, and we cannot even claim credit for that, it is part of the HARVEST, after the HOLY SPIRIT POURED GOD's LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS:
Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.