OSAS= House Built on Sand

[justpassinthrough]

I am not osas , so, i am not coming from that mindset. the lost sheep is a saved soul that has strayed from the Shepherd , but as roger says, it is still a sheep. it is still saved, even though it may have strayed.

as long as the sheep still acknowledges that the Shepherd is Lord and Savior , it is still part of the flock. now, as I said, if the sheep were to look at the shepherd and say " you are no longer my leader, I go my own way ", then that is outright rebellion , and the sheep is no longer saved if it keeps that mindset.

you see, the truth is, no matter how you try to deceive and spin, we are saved by faith and belief in Christ, not by command keeping and doing good works.

Is this hard for you to understand?


The shepherd has 100 sheep, they are his sheep; the sheep belong to him.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


JLB

 

[Jewel5712]

The shepherd has 100 sheep, they are his sheep; the sheep belong to him.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


JLB

In the PARABLE Hes not referencing it that way..we are His people ..His creation..HE doesnt want ANY of us to get lost...thats the purpose of the cross..that ALL should have a way to be "found" and reconciled back to God..

 

[gb9]

Is this hard for you to understand?


The shepherd has 100 sheep, they are his sheep; the sheep belong to him.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


JLB

maybe I was not clear enough- the lost sheep is a saved sheep as long as it still believes in it's shepherd.

there is your answer.

 

[PennEd]

Your last sentence doesnt make sense according to you thought process.."for one sheep to be lost it must first belong to the shephard"..if you say "lost" is sin..not saved...how can they belong to the shephard FIRST.. Repentance..salvation ..THEN we are His sheep

I really think some of these people believe we have to be born again many times over!

 

[justpassinthrough]

you see, the truth is, no matter how you try to deceive and spin, we are saved by faith and belief in Christ, not by command keeping and doing good works.

Please read these words: Do you believe Paul was trying to "spin" and deceive people?

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath Romans 2:6-8




JLB

 

[Chester]

I see, so your theology teaches that lost is really saved.


That explains a lot.



JPT

JPT - See her posts 1053 - 1055 -

 

[Ralph-]

You can question it but to keep trying to convince people tthat "youre right" when you specifically know other people dont believe you is just wanting to hear yourself preach! You KNOW mailmans and my views..webe stated them over and over but yet youre trying to CONVINCE us that youre right..why dont you call it a day and AGREE TO DISAGREE? Ohhhh..i know why..you like the sound of your own voice? Lol

And you're still here why?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The 100 sheep belonged to the man.

1 of his sheep wandered away and became lost.

Was the list sheep saved or unsaved?

100 sheep belong to the shepherd. The 99 are sheep and belong to the shepherd ... the 1 is sheep and belongs to the shepherd.

The lost sheep was a sheep who belongs to the shepherd. It did not stop belonging to the shepherd even though it had become separated from the 99.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Ralph the other day:

The believer does not turn into an unbeliever. The believer is still born again. He or she is no longer walking in light of who he or she is in Christ Jesus, but that does not mean he or she is not born again.

What happens to the "new man" within the born again one under your scenario?

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Ralph did not answer that question. Perhaps you will, or maybe you won't, but I'll ask anyway:

What happens to the "new man" within the born again one under your scenario?

Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Chester]

@Chester ..ok..chester..might be wrong on that one..sorry i re read the parable..more importantly the verses before and after to get the "bigger pic"..

Right, I think the parable is simply teaching that Jesus cares for those that are lost and seeks them out. The fact that the found sinner is a "sheep" does not mean he was or was not a Christian before: that is not the point of the parable.

 

[mailmandan]

All false religions and cults that teach grace is a license to sin strongly disagree with anti-OSAS. Don't know about you, but that is certainly a red flag for me!

See how unfair your reasoning is? I know that you don't think grace is a license to sin so why is it fair for me to question your 'once saved always saved' doctrine just because false believers who think grace is a license to sin flock to it like bugs to a porch light? I would expect the same courtesy be extended to me, who, as you know, doesn't teach salvation by works, yet doesn't believe in 'once saved always saved'.

Why so defensive? Who said that I was talking about you? Which false religions and cults teach that grace is a license to sin? All the false religions and cults that I'm familiar with, including (Catholicism, Mormonism, Campbellism, SDA's, JW's etc..) teach salvation by works and strongly oppose OSAS. I don't think that I'm being unfair. It's an honest observation.

 

[gb9]

Please read these words: Do you believe Paul was trying to "spin" and deceive people?

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath Romans 2:6-8




JLB

ohhhh i see- you are pushing sinless perfectionism. that is why you refuse to recognize that a Christian who may be struggling with sin is still a Christian as long as they have faith and trust and Jesus as Lord and Savior, as the sheep that has wondered is still part of the Shepherds' flock as long as it believes in the Shepherd.

you push the lie that one has to be sinless to be saved. is that it?

 

[justpassinthrough]

maybe I was not clear enough- the lost sheep is a saved sheep as long as it still believes in it's shepherd.

there is your answer.

If the sheep believed then the sheep would obey and still be following.


Why was their rejoicing when the sheep was found?

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Here is what the parable teaches us about lost and found -


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Separated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.




The shepherd has 100 sheep, they are his sheep; the sheep belong to him.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?



JPT

 

[Jewel5712]

@justpassingthrough @ralph

The Parable of the Lost Sheep


10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.[a] 12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? 13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish"
Matthew 18: 10-14

"The Parable of the Lost Sheep is one of the parables of Jesus. It appears in the Gospels of Matthew (Matthew 18:12–14) and Luke (Luke 15:3–7). It is about a shepherd who leaves his flock of ninety-nine sheep in order to find the one which is lost. It is the first member of a trilogy about redemption that Jesus tells after the Pharisees and religious leaders accuse him of welcoming and eating with "sinners."[1] The two parables that follow (in Luke's Gospel) are those of the Lost Coin and the Prodigal Son. The parable of the Good shepherd, a pericope found in John 10:1-21, derives from it.[according to whom?]"


LETS ALL GET BACK ON BASE HERE INSTEAD OF TANGENTS

 

[justpassinthrough]

Right, I think the parable is simply teaching that Jesus cares for those that are lost and seeks them out. The fact that the found sinner is a "sheep" does not mean he was or was not a Christian before: that is not the point of the parable.

The shepherd has 100 sheep, they are his sheep; the sheep belong to him.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?




JPT

 

[PennEd]

All false religions and cults that teach grace is a license to sin strongly disagree with anti-OSAS. Don't know about you, but that is certainly a red flag for me!

See how unfair your reasoning is? I know that you don't think grace is a license to sin so why is it fair for me to question your 'once saved always saved' doctrine just because false believers who think grace is a license to sin flock to it like bugs to a porch light? I would expect the same courtesy be extended to me, who, as you know, doesn't teach salvation by works, yet doesn't believe in 'once saved always saved'.

Remember, Christianity isn't about who has the most accurate doctrine. It's about who is going to act like Christ.

To "act" like Christ is hypocrisy. THAT is the center of your false doctrine. Acting like Christ is NOT what makes us Christian. We are Born, or KNOWN, by Him. THAT is what makes us Christian. You're "acting" is quintessential works. You better show up at His Wdding Feast wearing HIS righteous clothes that HE gave you, and NOT YOUR filthy rags of "acting" like Him.

This is what Paul had to say to those who said HE preached licentiousness by saying that we are saved solely by Jesus. PRAY ON THIS VERSE RALPH.
Romans 3:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

 

[justpassinthrough]

@justpassingthrough @ralph

The Parable of the Lost Sheep


10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.[a] 12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? 13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish"
Matthew 18: 10-14

"The Parable of the Lost Sheep is one of the parables of Jesus. It appears in the Gospels of Matthew (Matthew 18:12–14) and Luke (Luke 15:3–7). It is about a shepherd who leaves his flock of ninety-nine sheep in order to find the one which is lost. It is the first member of a trilogy about redemption that Jesus tells after the Pharisees and religious leaders accuse him of welcoming and eating with "sinners."[1] The two parables that follow (in Luke's Gospel) are those of the Lost Coin and the Prodigal Son. The parable of the Good shepherd, a pericope found in John 10:1-21, derives from it.[according to whom?]"


LETS ALL GET BACK ON BASE HERE INSTEAD OF TANGENTS

Let's all read and believe the truth!


The shepherd has 100 sheep that belong to him.


One goes astray and is lost.


“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

Matthew 18:12-17

• If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
• And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

Jesus defines the steps to take, to go after a person who has sinned against you to get them to repent:

1. “Moreover [likewise] if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.
2. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
3. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’
4. And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

James says it this way -


Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

James 5:19-20

• Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth
• and someone turns him back
• let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way
• will save a soul from death

Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.

Lost = Separated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.


For one of His sheep to become lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

100 sheep belong to the shepherd. The 99 are sheep and belong to the shepherd ... the 1 is sheep and belongs to the shepherd.

If the 1 who belongs to the shepherd is lost, then why does Jesus say the 99 are just, and not 100 are just?


Why does Jesus say the 1 who is lost, is a sinner in need of repentance while the 99 are just and need no repentance?



“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Please be honest.




JPT

 

[preston39]

Not only do you make the Lord impotent and incompetent, but you refuse to acknowledge that He is going to look for HIS UNTIL they are found.


You, and others, also negate the fact of the NEW birth. How monstrous a claim it is that the Lord will not find His Children that are lost. What kind of a Father would do that?

P...,

It sounds as though you conclude that G-d is compelling the lost to be corralled.
While it is G-d's desire that no one be lost........ I fail to find scriptures that says....G-d is out looking in caves, under rocks, behind trees, etc,...for the lost. Believe scriptures...He knows where each one is located.

Perhaps you can give me a specific reference that your conclusion is based on...ok?

 

[Jewel5712]

JPT - See her posts 1053 - 1055 -

I reposted the scripture and theology too..and.actually..reading it more..tgat scripture shouldnt even be USED to validate OSAS.. That scripture is just PART of the bigger picture Jesus was making an overall point to the pharisees so by using it for the OSAS takes scripture out of context @ralph @justpassingthrough

 

[justpassinthrough]

I reposted the scripture and theology too..and.actually..reading it more..tgat scripture shouldnt even be USED to validate OSAS.. That scripture is just PART of the bigger picture making an overall point to the pharisees so by using it for the OSAS takes scripture out of context @ralph @justpassingthrough

Please stop trying to explain away Jesus words -


If the 1 who belongs to the shepherd is lost, then why does Jesus say the 99 are just, and not 100 are just?


Why does Jesus say the 1 who is lost, is a sinner in need of repentance while the 99 are just and need no repentance?



“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them
• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!

Jesus uses the parable of the lost sheep to describe a reality among His people.

Jesus explains the parable of the sheep and correlates it to actual people in verse 7.

• I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Please be honest.



JPT