OSAS= House Built on Sand

[mailmandan]

NOSAS/works salvationist/lost salvationist, i think, has another gospel/ has another Jesus. For their gospel cannot save for eternity and their Jesus cannot save/ keep save for eternity. They put pedestal on themselves not what Christ did nor the power of God. On the reverse the strange teaching is built on the sinking sand.

God bless

I find it very interesting that false religions and cults who teach salvation by works (including Roman Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc..) all strongly support NOSAS and turn it into "type 2 works salvation." That has always been a red flag for me!

 

[mailmandan]

Is there no end to your obfuscation?

JPT is only interested in promoting his works salvation/lose salvation propaganda and is not interested in listening or learning.

 

[gb9]

I find it very interesting that false religions and cults who teach salvation by works (including Roman Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc..) all strongly support NOSAS and turn it into "type 2 works salvation." That has always been a red flag for me!

yes, anything that takes salvation out of God's hands, and puts it in ours, big red flag.

 

[preston39]

.where you said "it appears youre not familiar with all scriptures" to Dan..implies you ARE?

youre.....
j...,

Little bit of a spin there. If I was speaking of them...youre....how can that imply it was about me?
Strange.

 

[Jewel5712]

youre.....
j...,

Little bit of a spin there. If I was speaking of them...youre....how can that imply it was about me?
Strange.

Because YOU are the one that posted it..lol.

 

[Ralph-]

/

In July, 1962, Jesus gave the faith to trust Him as my Savior. (I believed)

You said "I" believed. If your believing was not a work of the damnable works gospel at that time, why is it now?

It was all His doing.

You said you believed. That means it was not all his doing. You had to respond to his gift of 'knowing'--the gift of faith--by placing your trust in the gospel. God makes it possible for you to trust in Christ (through the ability he gives to know the gospel is true). It won't happen without his intervention, but that hardly means you did nothing at all to be saved.

You teach that YOU must keep believing or He will cast you out, He will take the gift of eternal life back.

According to this passage if you are not presently believing you are not saved:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

I have faith that Jesus will keep his promise.

The gospel promise that saves, if you believe and trust in it, is that Christ is the payment for our sins. You are not saved by believing that you can not lose your salvation. That is not the gospel promise. You serve a different gospel.

YOU have faith in YOURSELF. YOU are keeping yourself saved by continuing to believe.

No, I'm trusting in that which continues to save me--Christ's blood in heaven which is on the altar continually ministering before the Father on my behalf (Hebrews 7:25). My believing is simply the conduit through which the work of Christ is applied to me. Close the conduit of grace through unbelief and no more application of the blood of Christ occurs.

 

[justpassinthrough]

So now, rather than admit that the parables in Luke 15 are spoken in different context than the parables of Matt 18, you want to examine more parables in order to cover up the fact that you are mashing together what Jesus taught His disciples in Matt 18 and the reproof of the pharisees and scribes of Luke 15?

I gave you an example of the same parable that Luke and Matthew recorded but using different words to describe the same truth. The parable of the Sower.


The parable of the lost sheep told by Luke is the same parable and teaches the same truth as the parable of the lost sheep told by Matthew.


Attacking me won’t change this truth, for you are only deceiving yourself by ignoring God’s word.


One of His sheep who becomes lost is no longer reconciled to Him and is an unjust sinner in need of repentance.


JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

You said "I" believed. If your believing was not a work of the damnable works gospel at that time, why is it now?

It’s funny how they can’t answer that.



JPT

 

[Jewel5712]

@Ralph- making a DESCISSION to be saved is an adjective NOT a "work" ..action..not work..we are persued and prompted by God /Holy Spirit to become saved because God doesnt want anyone to "perish" but yet WE have to decide if we'll accept His GIFT of salvation or not..

 

[Jewel5712]

I gave you an example of the same parable that Luke and Matthew recorded but using different words to describe the same truth. The parable of the Sower.


The parable of the lost sheep told by Luke is the same parable and teaches the same truth as the parable of the lost sheep told by Matthew.


Attacking me won’t change this truth, for you are only deceiving yourself by ignoring God’s word.


One of His sheep who becomes lost is no longer reconciled to Him and is an unjust sinner in need of repentance.


JPT

Yes..sin seperates us from God BUT YET the shepharrd still PERSUED that sinful sheep and brought him back to the fold via forgiveness and grace. Once AGAIN reconciling that sheep unto himself

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You said "I" believed. If your believing was not a work of the damnable works gospel at that time, why is it now?

Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord [by faith], live in him [by faith], Colossians 2:6

 

[Noblemen]

Those in Galatians who were saved and went back to the law were still saved.

Nice understanding of the Galatians. Hebrews 6 is possible the most misunderstood scripture in all the bible.
The description of it has always reminded me of the Betty Crocker box pancakes. When they came out with the add water mix it didn't sell, folks we're used to adding oil, egg, water, so on, they had to do more or they didn't like it, sound familiar with busy works of religion.

 

[PennEd]

It’s funny how they can’t answer that.



JPT

It has been answered. Ad infinitum.

Ephesians 2:8-9 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that (the faith we have) not of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should BOAST.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

/

You said "I" believed. If your believing was not a work of the damnable works gospel at that time, why is it now?



You said you believed. That means it was not all his doing. You had to respond to his gift of 'knowing'--the gift of faith--by placing your trust in the gospel. God makes it possible for you to trust in Christ (through the ability he gives to know the gospel is true). It won't happen without his intervention, but that hardly means you did nothing at all to be saved.



According to this passage if you are not presently believing you are not saved:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2



The gospel promise that saves, if you believe and trust in it, is that Christ is the payment for our sins. You are not saved by believing that you can not lose your salvation. That is not the gospel promise. You serve a different gospel.



No, I'm trusting in that which continues to save me--Christ's blood in heaven which is on the altar continually ministering before the Father on my behalf (Hebrews 7:25). My believing is simply the conduit through which the work of Christ is applied to me. Close the conduit of grace through unbelief and no more application of the blood of Christ occurs.

Ralph, consider the possibility that those who are engaging in this madness with you - saying that we don't have to believe until the end, yet saying that they still believe - at some point neglected the faith they had at a younger age, and then realizing their error, returned to the faith later in life. Thus there may be some guilt issues going on that is causing this resistance and animosity to this very basic and clearly witnessed reality that we have to persevere in the faith until the end.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Nice understanding of the Galatians. Hebrews 6 is possible the most misunderstood scripture in all the bible.
The description of it has always reminded me of the Betty Crocker box pancakes. When they came out with the add water mix it didn't sell, folks we're used to adding oil, egg, water, so on, they had to do more or they didn't like it, sound familiar with busy works of religion.

My guess is people didn't like it because it tasted like crap. Everyone wants to do less when it comes to cooking, but not if they have to eat flavorless garbage. And that's exactly what people will get if they put the same non-effort into their salvation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

According to this passage if you are not presently believing you are not saved:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

quoting...

"The first thing mentioned in opening up this subject is the gospel which Paul had preached to the Corinthians, which they had received and wherein they stood. This is the order: The preaching of the Gospel, the good news, its reception by faith, followed by the standing in salvation and the enjoyment of it. By this Gospel is salvation as it is so fully revealed in the Epistle to the Romans. The Apostle Paul had delivered unto them, which he himself had received from the Lord (Galatians 1:11-19).

"And the third great fact of the gospel, “He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.” This is the great truth of this chapter, a truth, if denied, must result in the complete collapse of the gospel." --Arno Gaebelein

[bold / underline mine]


To "believe in vain" means to leave off [altogether] the vital aspect of His "resurrection"... So the "unless ye have believed in vain" means that if they don't believe in "resurrection" (as some there did not), and especially HIS "resurrection," then it could NOT be said of [that person] "wherein ye stand" because they are not saved AT ALL. That means they have NOT "retained" what *PAUL* had proclaimed unto them (that is, the inclusion of HIS RESURRECTION [vital truth, for the salvation "wherein ye stand," if they have so believed in His resurrection]). This has nothing to do with having it at first, and then forgetting about it and thus losing it (or forfeiting it).

 

[UnderGrace]

Nice understanding of the Galatians. Hebrews 6 is possible the most misunderstood scripture in all the bible.
The description of it has always reminded me of the Betty Crocker box pancakes. When they came out with the add water mix it didn't sell, folks we're used to adding oil, egg, water, so on, they had to do more or they didn't like it, sound familiar with busy works of religion.

Yes I would agree on Hebrews, one has to see that the passage is really addressed to believers and not some temporary converts.

I think if people can see it from the Jewish mindset is really comes together, much like the writings of James.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It’s funny how they can’t answer that.



JPT

It's almost like they have total inability...

 

[justpassinthrough]

Yes..sin seperates us from God BUT YET the shepharrd still PERSUED that sinful sheep and brought him back to the fold via forgiveness and grace. Once AGAIN reconciling that sheep unto himself

The key to understand is the sheep must repent, just exactly like he did when first saved as an unbeliever.


That's the point.


Please examine carefully what Jesus says here, and what it takes for a wayward brother to return to Him.

• If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?

• And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

Please notice the steps to bringing him back to being "found".


“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.

• If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
• But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more
• And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.
• But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. 15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17





JPT

 

[gb9]

The key to understand is the sheep must repent, just exactly like he did when first saved as an unbeliever.


That's the point.


Please examine carefully what Jesus says here, and what it takes for a wayward brother to return to Him.

• If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?

• And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

Please notice the steps to bringing him back to being "found".


“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone.

• If he hears you, you have gained your brother.
• But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more
• And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church.
• But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. 15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:12-17





JPT

so, the sheep wonders off, gets lost, then the Shepard goes and finds the sheep, rejoices that the lost sheep was found, and somehow you interject that the sheep has to earn his way back into the flock.

miss the point much?