Greek/Hebrew vs. KJV Reading of....

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p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#1
Sep 4, 2013
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#1
I would like for Sister Angela, or any of the others here who are versed in the Greek/Hebrew Texts to comment on two Scriptures that I have been thinking of for a couple of days now.

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Romans 13:11) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

To me, these two appear to be related, but I am not sure if that would hold true when reading them in the original Texts. I am also wondering if in the Greek/Hebrew Texts if the word "salvation" used may have a meaning closer to "reward?"

Thanks......ahead of time.....

God bless
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#2
Jan 13, 2016
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#2
p_rehbein said:
I would like for Sister Angela, or any of the others here who are versed in the Greek/Hebrew Texts to comment on two Scriptures that I have been thinking of for a couple of days now.

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Romans 13:11) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

To me, these two appear to be related, but I am not sure if that would hold true when reading them in the original Texts. I am also wondering if in the Greek/Hebrew Texts if the word "salvation" used may have a meaning closer to "reward?"

Thanks......ahead of time.....

God bless
Click to expand...
Matthew 24 passage is a Jewish passage concerning the great tribulation where one must endure to the end to be saved into the Millennial reign of Christ. The church is caught up by that time.

Paul speaks in Romans 13 as a matter of fact. Each passing day is a time to awake and get to work for the Lord for salvation is nearer today than it was yesterday. The two passages have nothing to do with the other.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#3
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
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#3
Is the KJV from anything other than the Masochistic Text?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#4
Jun 30, 2015
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#4
JaumeJ said:
Is the KJV from anything other than the Masochistic Text?
Click to expand...
Not sure if that was intentional or not, but I think you mean, "Masoretic".

"I don't care who you are, that's funny right there."
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#5
Jul 2, 2011
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#5
Dino246 said:
Not sure if that was intentional or not, but I think you mean, "Masoretic".

"I don't care who you are, that's funny right there."
Click to expand...

That was a really dumb oversight. It looked correct with my vision when I corrected the red underlined spelling I had spelled. Thanks, you may rofl now..
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#6
Jun 11, 2018
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#6
JaumeJ said:
That was a really dumb oversight. It looked correct with my vision when I corrected the red underlined spelling I had spelled. Thanks, you may rofl now..
Click to expand...

Man, that hurts! :ROFL:
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#7
Jun 11, 2018
437
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#7
p_rehbein said:
I would like for Sister Angela, or any of the others here who are versed in the Greek/Hebrew Texts to comment on two Scriptures that I have been thinking of for a couple of days now.

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Romans 13:11) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

To me, these two appear to be related, but I am not sure if that would hold true when reading them in the original Texts. I am also wondering if in the Greek/Hebrew Texts if the word "salvation" used may have a meaning closer to "reward?"

Thanks......ahead of time.....

God bless
Click to expand...

It means deliverance. The Greek sodzo means anything from a bodily healing to a spiritual deliverance. When Jesus speaks of salvation is means coming out of bondage into freedom...and from darkness into light.
 
allsaved

allsaved

Junior Member
#8
Sep 13, 2015
56
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#8
p_rehbein said:
I would like for Sister Angela, or any of the others here who are versed in the Greek/Hebrew Texts to comment on two Scriptures that I have been thinking of for a couple of days now.

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Romans 13:11) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

To me, these two appear to be related, but I am not sure if that would hold true when reading them in the original Texts. I am also wondering if in the Greek/Hebrew Texts if the word "salvation" used may have a meaning closer to "reward?"

Thanks......ahead of time.....

God bless
Click to expand...
Latour said:
It means deliverance. The Greek sodzo means anything from a bodily healing to a spiritual deliverance. When Jesus speaks of salvation is means coming out of bondage into freedom...and from darkness into light.
Click to expand...

I hope this will help you to find the answers to your questions:

Go to blueletterbible.org and search your verses using the KJV, when you find them look for "Strongs" 7nd click on it. a blue 4 digit number will appear after each word in the verse you searched. Click on any number and it will open a window that shows you the Greek or Hebrew word that the word was translated from along with the definition and other options for study. This website has been a real blessing to me for many years now, I hope it will be for you too.

Bill
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#9
Sep 4, 2013
30,747
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#9
John146 said:
Matthew 24 passage is a Jewish passage concerning the great tribulation where one must endure to the end to be saved into the Millennial reign of Christ. The church is caught up by that time.

Paul speaks in Romans 13 as a matter of fact. Each passing day is a time to awake and get to work for the Lord for salvation is nearer today than it was yesterday. The two passages have nothing to do with the other.
Click to expand...
The problem with that is the question Christ was asked......and which He was answering:

(And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? )

The Church can not be "caught up" until He returns........Now, His return will be WHEN the Church is caught up.......and THEN you might have a point........

It seems to me that Paul is mirroring the words of Christ. Enduring and being nearer than when..........surely are similar.

(just saying)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#10
Jul 31, 2013
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#10
p_rehbein said:
The problem with that is the question Christ was asked......and which He was answering:

(And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? )
Click to expand...
that's three questions :)




((haz math))
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#11
Sep 4, 2013
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#11
The other problem with that explanation is that it suggests that Christ will return more than once.........and, as I read Scripture, that is wrong. As I read Scripture........when the Eastern Sky splits, and the LAST Trump sounds, and Christ descends in clouds of glory....THAT IS THE END!

So, it would seem to me, that Christ is saying we (the Church) must endure the Tribulations.....but, now, that's me......
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#12
Jul 18, 2017
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#12
I don't consider myself to be a Greek scholar, but definitely a student of the Word.
p_rehbein said:
Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Click to expand...
"Shall be delivered" would also be valid in this context. We know that a believing Jewish remnant will be delivered from the wrath of Satan, and preserved from the wrath of God, during the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation. This is applicable to them, and they will endure until the end.

Romans 13:11)
Click to expand...
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Click to expand...
Here we need to understand that the beginning of salvation is justification, while the end of salvation is perfection and glorification. So Paul is speaking about the culmination of salvation, which will occur at the Resurrection/Rapture, when all the saints will be perfected and glorified.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#13
Jan 13, 2016
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#13
p_rehbein said:
The problem with that is the question Christ was asked......and which He was answering:

(And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? )

The Church can not be "caught up" until He returns........Now, His return will be WHEN the Church is caught up.......and THEN you might have a point........

It seems to me that Paul is mirroring the words of Christ. Enduring and being nearer than when..........surely are similar.

(just saying)
Click to expand...
Exactly. Jesus was referring to His return as King, His second coming. The church will be caught up before this happens. His second coming to earth is not the rapture of the church, although it's the beginning of things.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#14
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#14
p_rehbein said:
I would like for Sister Angela, or any of the others here who are versed in the Greek/Hebrew Texts to comment on two Scriptures that I have been thinking of for a couple of days now.

Matthew 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Romans 13:11) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

To me, these two appear to be related, but I am not sure if that would hold true when reading them in the original Texts. I am also wondering if in the Greek/Hebrew Texts if the word "salvation" used may have a meaning closer to "reward?"

Thanks......ahead of time.....

God bless
Click to expand...
They are totally related, when Paul wrote "now is our salvation nearer than when we believed' he was speaking of salvation from the "wrath to come" as John the Baptist proclaimed.

Paul most likely had Jesus' statement in mind:

Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

Luke 21:28 “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

All the Greek "saving/redemption" words are similarly based:

G4991 soteria so-tay-ree'-ah

feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly, abstract) noun;

rescue or safety (physically or morally).
------------------------------------------------
G4990 soter so-tare'

from G4982;

a deliverer, i.e. God or Christ.
-------------------------------------------------
G4982 sozo sode'-zo

from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saos, "safe");

to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively).
-------------------------------------------------

We know that Jerusalem was surround by armies in the war of 66-70 AD, Jesus is stating at that time their redemption/salvation was drawing near. Paul is telling them in Romans that it was nearer than when they first believed.

The redemption/salvation that Paul spoke of is not salvation unto eternal life as they already had that. Neither was Jesus claiming that when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies in 66-70AD were they to receive eternal life.

"he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" is likely related to enduring in faith/persecutions. If they fell away the promise of being delivered from the wrath to come of John the Baptist would be lost as they would most likely dismiss the signs Jesus spoke of in Luke 21.

And neither would they heed the warnings of the apostles:

1 Pet 4:7 The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#15
Sep 4, 2013
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#15
Thanks for all the info....... God bless
 
J

jb

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#16
Feb 27, 2010
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#16
Paul
John146 said:
Exactly. Jesus was referring to His return as King, His second coming. The church will be caught up before this happens. His second coming to earth is not the rapture of the church, although it's the beginning of things.
Click to expand...
So, according to you there are Three Advents of Christ and not Two!

LOL! Isn't eschatology great, you can make it mean what seems fanciful to you at any time!
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#17
Jan 13, 2016
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#17
jb said:
Paul


So, according to you there are Three Advents of Christ and not Two!

LOL! Isn't eschatology great, you can make it mean what seems fanciful to you at any time!
Click to expand...
The rapture of the church is not His second coming. Jesus never sets foot on the earth but calls His church up in the clouds.
 
L

LPT

Guest
#18
#18
That an't nuttin, heres a controversial verse. that contradicts not one but two story's in Luke and Mark , no matter the bible except for two bibles.

Jesus questioned about fasting and the raising of the dead girl and the heeling of the woman.

Matthew 9:18
King James Bible
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

The issue is with the highlighted parts above, they don't give at all with marks and Lukes account.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#19
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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#19
p_rehbein said:
The problem with that is the question Christ was asked......and which He was answering:

(And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? )

The Church can not be "caught up" until He returns........Now, His return will be WHEN the Church is caught up.......and THEN you might have a point........

It seems to me that Paul is mirroring the words of Christ. Enduring and being nearer than when..........surely are similar.

(just saying)
Click to expand...

In quoting Matthew 24:3 and trying to reason it through it at first looks as if they(the disciples) are asking Jesus about his "second coming",meaning his return after he is crucified,buried,resurrected,ascension to heaven and then his second"return"(suggestive thinking on our part from what we have heard)...

In the bible in the events "before" Matthew 24:3 Jesus tried to explain this to them about his death,resurrection ect. but if you look "before" that point you will find they "did not understand" then "after" Jesus death they did not think he rose from the grave when told "i.e.,,lest I put my fingers in the holes in his hand,ect." ...

So if they could not understand before he died,and didn't believe after he rose,,,why do you think they ask him about it in Matthew 24:3? lol,it's clear they are not asking about his "second advent" when they ask about the sign of thy coming,,,they were asking him "how in the world can that temple and those stones be set one off the other and you give us the sign of thy coming(1st coming/Messiah ect.) if it's going to be destroyed?,,,you see they thought he was going to rule from the temple they "pointed at(stones)",,,and ask about the signs of his first coming as king and wondered how he would fulfill those signs(1st coming) if not one was standing on another...
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#20
Feb 28, 2016
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#20
PR,
we see once again that you have your 'thinking-cap' engaged...:)

we agree with Locutus as far as his 'faith-persecution' conclusion, because, where ever the phrase
is used, that is, MATT. 10:22. and MARK 13:13., the context is 'Faith-Persecution' - there are many
other scriptures with the same principle.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end;
we don't think that this nullifies the scripture that The Holy Spirit is the earnest or guarantee of our inheritance,
for even he that produces 'stubble' shall be saved by the 'skin of his teeth'.

but we should certainly not 'draw back into perdition'. HEB. 10:39.
 
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