God does not love all mankind.

[shrume]

You stopped the bold of the scripture in Exodus 8:15 right before it said this, as the LORD had said.

These are the aforementioned verses re: God hardening Pharaoh's heart. 1599 Geneva Bible Exodus 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I commanded thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he suffer the children of Israel to go out of his land.
3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and multiply my miracles, and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
4 And Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out mine armies, even my people, the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt, by great [d]judgments. (13) So Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he hearkened not to them, as the Lord had said.

Exodus 9:12 And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them, as the Lord had said unto Moses.

Exodus 10:1 Again the Lord said unto Moses, Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might work these my miracles in the midst of his realm, [verse19 And the Lord turned a mighty strong West wind, and took away the grasshoppers, and violently cast them into the red Sea, so that there remained not one grasshopper in all the land of Egypt.
20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the children of Israel go.
[verse 27 (But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let them go.)
28 And Pharaoh said unto him, Get thee from me: look thou see my face no more: for whensoever thou comest in my sight, thou shalt die.[]

Exodus 11:4And Moses said, Thus saith the Lord, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt.
5 And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth on his throne, unto the firstborn of the maid servant, that is at the mill, and all the firstborn of beasts.
6 Then there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as was never none like, nor shall be.
7 But against none of the children of Israel shall a dog move his tongue, neither against man nor beast, that ye may know that the Lord putteth a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.
8 And all these thy servants shall come down unto me, and fall before me, saying, Get thee out, and all the people that are at thy feet, and after this will I depart. So he went out from Pharaoh very angry.
9 And the Lord said unto Moses, Pharaoh shall not hear you, that my wonders may be multiplied in the land of Egypt.
10 So Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh: but the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he suffered not the children of Israel to go out of his land.


Exodus 14:4 And I will harden Pharaoh’s heart that he shall follow after you: so I will get me honor upon Pharaoh, and upon all his host: the Egyptians also shall know that I am the Lord: and they did so.
5 ¶ Then it was told the king of Egypt, that the people fled: and the heart of Pharaoh and of his servants was turned against the people, and they said, Why have we this done, and have let Israel go out of our service?
6 And he made ready his chariots, and took his people with him,
7 And took six hundred chosen chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt, and captains over every one of them.
8 (For the Lord had hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he followed after the children of Israel: but the children of Israel went out with an high hand.)

Is God a trickster? Was He playing games with Moses and Pharaoh? Did God want Pharaoh to let the Israelites go, or didn't He? How would you feel if God told you to do something but then forced you to disobey Him?

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Is God a trickster? Was He playing games with Moses and Pharaoh? Did God want Pharaoh to let the Israelites go, or didn't He? How would you feel if God told you to do something but then forced you to disobey Him?

Can you deal with the scriptures under discussion?

 

[Dayone]

Jonah 3:9-10
Who can tell if God will trun and relent, and trun away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?
10. Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

 

[Dayone]

Jonah 4:1-3
But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry.2 so he prayed to the Lord, and said, " AH, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are GRACIOUS AND MERCIFUL GOD, SLOW TO ANGER AND ABUNDANT IN LOVINGKINDNESS, One who relents from doing harm.

 

[shrume]

Can you deal with the scriptures under discussion?

Can you deal with the ones I presented? And then deal with the common sense questions I posed?

 

[Latour]

If you're waiting to be saved, decide right now to believe the gospel, and you will be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit, the guarantee of salvation (Acts 2:38; Eph 1:13; Rom 10:9-10).

No guarantees in a race. Get qualified and then run to win.

 

[shrume]

No guarantees in a race. Get qualified and then run to win.

There is no race to becoming saved. It is an event that happens when a person hears and believes the gospel. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:14; 2 Cor 1:22).

The race is to receive a full reward.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

No guarantees in a race. Get qualified and then run to win.

That is not at all how salvation works. Nor would it qualify as a simile to describe the Gospel.

 

[selfdissolving]

I think you have misquoted John 6:29. In my KJV it reads; ( THAT ye believe) not ( TO believe) is the work of God. Believing, faith and the other fruits of the Spirit the natural man cannot believe in spiritual things until he is born of the Spirit, and has the fruits thereof, according to 1 Cor 2:14.

whether it's that ye believe, or to believe, the emphasis is the same: stop trying to earn your way into God's good graces and realize that Jesus Christ has already earned it for you.

You've come unto the throne of grace and been given entrance into the throne room of God through Christ.

There is nothing more that you need to do.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Human beings can respond to the gospel by choosing to believe it.

If someone wants to do the work of God, he needs to choose to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The natural man cannot choose to believe on the Lord, that is why he has to be born again of the Spirit before he can believe, so, it is God's work to put him in a place where he can believe.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

whether it's that ye believe, or to believe, the emphasis is the same: stop trying to earn your way into God's good graces and realize that Jesus Christ has already earned it for you.

You've come unto the throne of grace and been given entrance into the throne room of God through Christ.

There is nothing more that you need to do.

God gets all the credit for saving man eternally, and man gets none, but some affirm that they do. I agree with the statement you said. It disturbs me when people limit God's power, by thinking God wants to save them but he can't unless man will let him. I believe in an all powerful, all knowing and sovereign God, and will try to make people understand that he is such a God.

 

[selfdissolving]

What about the good works God ordained we should walk in? Since God is at work within us both to will and do of His good pleasure, there are going to be good works following.

The thing is, we can’t just lay back and rest in the good works we did last year, last month, last week, yesterday, or even a minute ago. We are to forget those things which are behind (both the good works God ordained we should walk in and the not so good works we did when we strayed from Him) as we press toward the mark of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

I totally agree that Christians are called to walk in good works. The point i'm trying to make is that without Christ we are totally unable to please God. Our faith should always rest firmly in the completed work of Jesus Christ, not out own ability to do good works.

 

[selfdissolving]

It says...in a great house there are both vessels of honour and vessels of dishonour. IF we purge ourselves from the deeds of the flesh then we will be fit for honour. Many Christians remain "half converted" as it were. There are many who see no need to learn righteousness...because they have been taught error. Many have been taught the opposite of what is written in the bible....as in...we will be judged easier because we have received so much. The truth is that Christians will be jufged very hard because of the grace they have received. it is only fair to do so. Or...we can't add anything to what Jesus did. But the truth is that God is waiting to see what we will become...what we will do with what we have been given. We will be judged by what we say and do....not by the gifts we have received.

Many believers have given up on truth....even on the kind of logic that Jesus used to convey the kingdom of God.

Who would you expect to dig the bigger hole...a person who was given a spoon...or a person who was given a shovel? So then the person with the shovel...more will be expected of him. Most modern doctrine doesn't even stand up to simple logic such as this.

We have many warnings about this... the 10 virgins...the church of Laodicea...those who say "Lord, Lord" but don't do what Jesus says..

Paul says..."if He spared not the natural branches...

Come judgment day there will be many surprises.

There is no such thing as being "half converted". You are either saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, or you're not.

Once you're saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, God is in you and in control from now on.

God is ALWAYS in control. Even over the unsaved. God doesn't need to wait and see what we will become, because we will become what he chooses to make us.

 

[Latour]

There is no race to becoming saved. It is an event that happens when a person hears and believes the gospel. The gift of the Holy Spirit is the guarantee of salvation (Eph 1:14; 2 Cor 1:22).

The race is to receive a full reward.

The race is to become qualified for the kingdom of God. A race has winners and losers. The winners receive a reward...but the losers lose everything and become a vessel of dishonour.

 

[Latour]

There is no such thing as being "half converted". You are either saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, or you're not.

Once you're saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, God is in you and in control from now on.

God is ALWAYS in control. Even over the unsaved. God doesn't need to wait and see what we will become, because we will become what he chooses to make us.

We are acting out our destinies now...but there is no once saved thing...it is how we live from now on that will determine what we will be in eternity. We will not be judged by what we have received...but what we did with what we have received.

The bible is clear that we will all be judged by our works. Did you somehow miss that?

 

[Latour]

There is a lack of understanding about what is our response to the grace of God. A half-converted person remains in the dark about himself and what he is. The irony is that they who don't know themselves think they are farther ahead than they are...but those who identify only with Christ become humble and fearful. So the ones who should fear the most...are confident. THAT is half-converted...not knowing themselves or God's judgments.

 

[selfdissolving]

There is a lack of understanding about what is our response to the grace of God. A half-converted person remains in the dark about himself and what he is. The irony is that they who don't know themselves think they are farther ahead than they are...but those who identify only with Christ become humble and fearful. So the ones who should fear the most...are confident. THAT is half-converted...not knowing themselves or God's judgments.

there is a lack of understanding about the Sovereignty and providence of God.

We will ALWAYS be exactly where and what God wills us to be. His plans can never be foiled because he is God, omnipotent and all-knowing. What he purposes to do in his Creation, he does. He is the potter and we are the clay.

If i am a lump of clay on a potters wheel and the potter is shaping me into whatever he wishes, then i will be shaped according to his will. If i say "hmm...the potter isn't shaping me the way he really wants me to be shaped" it would be kind of ridiculous wouldn't it?

The potter is always shaping his vessels the way he desires them to be. Whether they be vessels of honor or vessels of dishonor.

 

[shrume]

The race is to become qualified for the kingdom of God. A race has winners and losers. The winners receive a reward...but the losers lose everything and become a vessel of dishonour.

EVERY Christian (person born again of the Holy Spirit) will be in the kingdom. Every single one. Nobody will be left out. What qualifies a person for the kingdom of God is salvation, which happens when a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ.

The "race" pertains to rewards IN the kingdom. Faithful Christians will receive a rich welcome, and a full reward, and get to reign with Christ. Not-so-faithful Christians may miss out on the crowns, and their position and/or job in the kingdom will be lesser. But they will be in the kingdom (1 Cor 3:11-15).

 

[dcontroversal]

I am not really clear about your remark. are you saying that God does love all mankind, and it just does not penetrate some, if so, how do you explain my scriptures about God not loving all mankind?

You cannot draw the conclusion you have drawn from the words in Revelation 3 which are particularly applied unto a church.....John 3:16 God so loved the Kosmos<---word is translated world but means whole order of things.....God loves all, while being able to hate our actions....he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked....!

 

[shrume]

there is a lack of understanding about the Sovereignty and providence of God.

Indeed there is.

We will ALWAYS be exactly where and what God wills us to be.

God does not want us to sin. That is His will. Yet we do sin, so we are NOT always what and where God wants us to be.

His plans can never be foiled because he is God, omnipotent and all-knowing. What he purposes to do in his Creation, he does. He is the potter and we are the clay.

God wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish (2 Pet 3:9). But it is clear that will not happen. Why not? Because God gave us free will, and not all will choose to believe.

If i am a lump of clay on a potters wheel and the potter is shaping me into whatever he wishes, then i will be shaped according to his will. If i say "hmm...the potter isn't shaping me the way he really wants me to be shaped" it would be kind of ridiculous wouldn't it?

The potter is always shaping his vessels the way he desires them to be. Whether they be vessels of honor or vessels of dishonor.

People clearly can resist the will of God.