I am saying that a lost man will not, and indeed, can not make a choice to believe, because spiritual things are foolishness to him.
John Chapter 3 REFUTES Five Point Calvinism
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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To my knowledge, I have not dismissed a single scripture that anyone has presented to me without explaining my view of what the scriptures say, unlike most of you who have tried to talk yourselves around 1 Cor 2:14 instead of explaining it.
Are you trying to tell me that the natural man, void of the Spirit, will ask a spiritual God for good things? Roger, I think I have given these scriptures to you already, but in case it was to someone else, here is scripture showing that God does not love all mankind. Rev 3:19, As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous therefore and repent. God's chastening is divine punishment, so, if I can show you someone that he does not divinely punish, would you understand that he does not love that person? Psalms 73:5, They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they PLAGUED ( Greek translation of plagued is =divinely punished ) like other men.
Most people in the 33 years when Jesus walked the earth as a man said that he preached a hard doctrine, most especially to those in that day who were intelligent. It is no different in this day and time. No man can understand the doctrine of Jesus unless the Holy Spirit within them reveals it unto them. Why he has chosen so few to reveal it to is a great mystery to me, because it encompasses a much bigger amount to go to heaven than all of the false doctrines do put together.
You didn't answer the question. Can the Holy Spirit draw a lost man to the knowledge of the Savior? Then, it is the lost man's choice whether to believe and call upon the Lord to be saved.
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
And whosoever will...not whosoever that God has predetermined to be saved come...
Calvinists believe a man is saved because God predestined to save him before He created the world. Those who disagree say that God sent Jesus to save the whole world but He failed.
I have to go with the almighty God who never fails in anything He sets out to do, so I believe Calvin got it right.
I am saying you misinterpret the scriptures because you do not know the nature and character of God.
You attribute to God a capricious nature which is totally false.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You have yet to respond to even one scripture that has been presented to you that clearly demonstrates your errors. No one has talked around the scripture in 1 Cor 2:14. Most whole heartedly receive that scripture as true. It is your misapplication and complete inability to understand that scripture that is the root of the problem.
You have constructed your entire theology on a false understanding of that scripture.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Why use the term fail? Does that make you feel better about Jerome's fatalism? Jesus didn't fail. Jesus' death accomplished exactly what He set out to accomplish...to die for the sins of the whole world that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Jesus Himself said it. John confirms in the first chapter of the Gospel of John that God indeed lights all men with light so they can respond to the gospel.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
R
Ralph-
Guest
An unbeliever being under the conviction of the Holy Spirit is not him being void of the Spirit. It's not him having the Spirit in salvation, but it's definitely not him being void of the Spirit either.
R
Ralph-
Guest
It amazing to me how people think that giving a man the choice to believe, and then him choosing not to believe means God failed.
I'm not saying that Christs suffering and dying on the cross wasn't enough to save the whole world. I'm saying I don't believe that God intended to save the whole world, because I believe He is almighty so if He wanted to save the whole world He would have accomplished His desire.
God delivered the Israelites from Egypt to give them the promise land. Those Israelites rejected God's word, so God did not allow them in. Did God fail? Nope. He simply gave them the choice to trust His word and they didn't. Choose ye this day whom you will serve...
I believe Gods message has always been the same, and it was directed at His chosen or elect. He knew who would believe and who wouldn't all along, but the command was given so His elect would respond by using the gift of faith that He gave to them before they were born.
Jesus said something quite in contrast to your personal opinion on the subject.
Mt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Israel Gods elect and they reject the Messiah?
God created man that man would glorify God. Without free will to choose how can God be glorified? God crafted the plan of salvation knowing that His creation would need to be redeemed. In this God is glorified.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
IF God delivered the Israelites from Egypt to give them the promised land they would have received the Promised Land.
God doesn't fail. God can't fail. If God decides a certain situation will have a certain outcome then that is exactly the way it will unfold.
I don't understand peoples theology that seems to make them think that all of Gods plans are contingent on stupid people making all these genius choices. The only time stupid people make genius choices is when God leads them to do so.
But how can you convince someone of this? Too much pride and ignorance and silliness for one person to get through to another. Only God can convince someone of this.
God doesn't fail, I would agree, but God gave them a choice. Those chose not to trust Him, so He didn't allow them to enter.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
If God has predetermined who will be saved, and they were saved before the foundation of the world, in fact, they were saved before they knew it themselves, and no one cannot resist His will....tell me, why the longsuffering of God? Why would God suffer long for those who He has predetermined to be saved? Longsuffering implies that there's going to come a time when God's patience will run out and He will proceed with or without us.