Law and THE Law

[Latour]

Sometimes I think the bible is meant to be obscure...on purpose...so that people can form a quick opinion about it and then argue with others who also think "I got it."
Most people are happy with the easy answers and surefire interpretations that we can get from self-assured people.

But the bible is indeed a very deep set of writings that are very difficult to assemble into a unified way of interpreting in a consistent way.

Take the issue of the law (Nomos) in Greek.

There are so many contradictory sounding things said of the law as in...

We are not under the law but under grace...yet we must fulfill the law...does faith abolish the law...no! it establishes it....etc

A big problem is the way the translators chose to leave out certain words...and add others to the text. While this might make the English sound more fluid...it all but destroys the meaning of the text.

Here is an example...

Rom. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This is a problem if we consider we are no longer under the law. So what gives? Are we to pretend to understand and just ignore the problem? Why add words to the text?

The truth is that ALL covenants from God are based on law. There is no such thing as a covenant of grace.

Romans 3:31 should read (if we leave out the "the"'s that were added to the text)

"Do we make void LAW through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish LAW."

(notice no more "the"s in the corrected text.)

The New Covenant is based on LAW...a higher law...the law of faith.

So when we read of "THE LAW" we are talking about the list of commandments and ordinances from the Old Covenant. These are separated into 2 kinds of laws...the law of righteousness...and the law of holiness (Mosaic)

The law of righteousness remains in effect as it is a gauge to our human behaviour towards loving others.

But the law of holiness has been changed. Holiness is only found IN Christ Jesus. The temple ordinances and rites have now ceased....to the effect that WE are now the temple of the living God.

 

[Latour]

So then we retain the law of righteousness since people are still people and we still need to love them as ourselves.

We will call this...salt. To be salty means to be humble, show mercy to others...to be kind and giving. To forgive and not judge. To think the best of others. This quality is loved by God. That we LOVE OTHERS.

We also have a new law based on faith that brings down power from heaven the effect of which is...light. This light is the life of Christ given to mankind in the form of grace. Grace is the power to produce light in holiness from God. It is the power to love as Jesus loves. It is the power to LOVE GOD as He ought to be loved.

So we see that the New Covenant is not the abolishing of humility and gentleness towards others...no, it is being built on it.

If we seek to build on Christ but without love for others...then we have lost our saltiness (that which preserves the world) and are not fit for anything but the dung heap.

 

[Latour]

Holiness is based on LIFE from heaven...the life of Jesus Christ IN us. But what of the law of sin that is in us? Is it not like the law of gravity that keeps us in bondage to this world through sin?

YES!

But there is a new law that is come through the resurrection life of Jesus. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. This new law acts like the law of flight that makes eagles soar into the heavens. Does this new law abolish the law of sin and death? No, it overcomes it in the same way that the law of flight doesn't abolish gravity.

So then we are taking walking by faith to a whole new level. God has upped the ante, as it were.

We begin our spiritual journey by receiving a new divine nature within us. We receive a deposit of His love in our new hearts. But we will not receive His resurrection life unless we go to Him. That is the whole purpose of the Covenant....that we learn to GO TO HIM.

By faith it is now possible to walk as Jesus walked. But this takes a new kind of faith. We need to go from faith (ours) to Faith (His). The New Covenant is established with God on a one-by-one basis so that we are truly in connection with Him. We must seek Him and find Him in order to partake of His holiness. We must believe INTO Him and learn to live IN Him. It is only by abiding IN Christ that we bear holy fruit.

We must meet God's righteous requirements before we can become partakers of His holiness and become ambassadors for His kingdom. We must be approved as Abel was approved. Our sacrifice (of ourselves) must be accepted by God.

Humble yourself in the sight of God...and He will lift you up in His time.

 

[Latour]

We are to be both salt AND light in this present world. We are to AT LEAST remain salty by loving others. In doing this we obey the 2nd great commandment.

But we are to also strive to enter in through the narrow gate...through Jesus Christ. We must pass through death which is the power that keeps us from that which impedes our progress towards God. Death breaks the shackles that bind us to this world...so that we are made free to go to where He is. His life then takes over in us. His perfect life becomes ours as a gift of His completed work...both His death AND resurrection.

We are to be the light in this world.

But this must be done lawfully in order to receive real grace...the kind of grace that Jesus showed us. We are to walk in the same light that Jesus walked in.....the same love. But also the same hatred of men.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In Romans 3:31, in addition to there not being definite articles before the words law, there is a definite article before the word faith, i.e., the faith. So that verse says , as I read it, that we do not make law useless through the faith (i.e., the doctrine of Christ and his apostles), but we establish law because the faith is GOD's law for his people.

 

[Latour]

In Romans 3:31, in addition to there not being definite articles before the words law, there is a definite article before the word faith, i.e., the faith. So that verse says , as I read it, that we do not make law useless through the faith (i.e., the doctrine of Christ and his apostles), but we establish law because the faith is GOD's law for his people.

An exchange of "the"s? Curious indeed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It makes sense actually, paul is talking about one fath “the faith” of he gospel or he faith which saved.

As for the law, the law is establihsed through “the faith”

1. It is stablished that all have sinned, and no one has met the just requirement of the law
2, it is established the the atoning sacrifice of the unblemished lamb (christ) must be done
3.it is eatablished that our faith “the faith” in these things s what saves.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

An exchange of "the"s? Curious indeed.

Yes, it's extraordinary how translations can change the entire meanings of passages.

 

[FlyingDove]

Sometimes I think the bible is meant to be obscure...on purpose...so that people can form a quick opinion about it and then argue with others who also think "I got it."
Most people are happy with the easy answers and surefire interpretations that we can get from self-assured people.

But the bible is indeed a very deep set of writings that are very difficult to assemble into a unified way of interpreting in a consistent way.

Take the issue of the law (Nomos) in Greek.

There are so many contradictory sounding things said of the law as in...

We are not under the law but under grace...yet we must fulfill the law...does faith abolish the law...no! it establishes it....etc

A big problem is the way the translators chose to leave out certain words...and add others to the text. While this might make the English sound more fluid...it all but destroys the meaning of the text.

Here is an example...

Rom. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This is a problem if we consider we are no longer under the law. So what gives? Are we to pretend to understand and just ignore the problem? Why add words to the text?

The truth is that ALL covenants from God are based on law. There is no such thing as a covenant of grace.

Romans 3:31 should read (if we leave out the "the"'s that were added to the text)

"Do we make void LAW through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish LAW."

(notice no more "the"s in the corrected text.)

The New Covenant is based on LAW...a higher law...the law of faith.

So when we read of "THE LAW" we are talking about the list of commandments and ordinances from the Old Covenant. These are separated into 2 kinds of laws...the law of righteousness...and the law of holiness (Mosaic)

The law of righteousness remains in effect as it is a gauge to our human behaviour towards loving others.

But the law of holiness has been changed. Holiness is only found IN Christ Jesus. The temple ordinances and rites have now ceased....to the effect that WE are now the temple of the living God.

Scripture Study Tips
When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^

So, ask: Who is writing? Who’s it written to? What are the circumstances? What’s the context BEFORE? What's the context after?

You should never take a verse out of context & try to build a doctrine upon it.

Romans 3:

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(NOTE: This verse declares Jesus righteous & declares Jesus the justifier of those who believe in Christ. Not those that follow/keep the Mosaic law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(NOTE: Boasting is excluded BY FAITH not thru works)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(NOTE: Man is justified = Declared righteous = "by faith" WITHOUT the deeds of the law).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(NOTE: He is God of BOTH, Jew & Gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(NOTE: God will justify = Declared righteous. BOTH the circumcision = JEW, by faith. And uncircumcision = GENTILES through faith also. NOT THRU LAW KEEPING!)

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. Its the new covenant LAW OF FAITH that's being established. Not the Mosaic law of works!)

 

[Nehemiah6]

Romans 3:31 should read (if we leave out the "the"'s that were added to the text)

"Do we make void LAW through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish LAW."

(notice no more "the"s in the corrected text.)

You are making a big deal out of nothing, and you are also mistaken in that "we establish THE law" is in the Greek text. Let me show you in Rom 3:21.

CRITICAL TEXT
Νυνὶ δὲ χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνη Θεοῦ πεφανέρωται, μαρτυρουμένη ὑπὸ τοῦ (the) νόμου (law) καὶ τῶν προφητῶν.

RECEIVED TEXT
Νυνὶ δὲ χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ πεφανέρωται μαρτυρουμένη ὑπὸ τοῦ (the) νόμου (Law) καὶ τῶν προφητῶν.

Notice that there is no difference between the Critical and the Received Texts.

"...being witnessed by the law and the prophets..."

The Law and the Prophets = The whole Tanakh (24 books of the Hebrew Bible)

There would be absolutely no confusion is Christians studied the pharase "the Law" properly. Depending on the context it can mean:

1. THE WHOLE OLD TESTAMENT (the Law and the Prophets)

2. THE WHOLE TORAH -- Genesis to Deuteronomy

3. THE LAW OF MOSES (613 laws)

4. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (10 laws)

 

[Latour]

Scripture Study Tips
When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^

So, ask: Who is writing? Who’s it written to? What are the circumstances? What’s the context BEFORE? What's the context after?

You should never take a verse out of context & try to build a doctrine upon it.

Romans 3:

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(NOTE: This verse declares Jesus righteous & declares Jesus the justifier of those who believe in Christ. Not those that follow/keep the Mosaic law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(NOTE: Boasting is excluded BY FAITH not thru works)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(NOTE: Man is justified = Declared righteous = "by faith" WITHOUT the deeds of the law).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(NOTE: He is God of BOTH, Jew & Gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(NOTE: God will justify = Declared righteous. BOTH the circumcision = JEW, by faith. And uncircumcision = GENTILES through faith also. NOT THRU LAW KEEPING!)

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. Its the new covenant LAW OF FAITH that's being established. Not the Mosaic law of works!)

Here's a tip ...before responding to a post...read it through.

 

[Latour]

You are making a big deal out of nothing, and you are also mistaken in that "we establish THE law" is in the Greek text. Let me show you in Rom 3:21.

CRITICAL TEXT
Νυνὶ δὲ χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνη Θεοῦ πεφανέρωται, μαρτυρουμένη ὑπὸ τοῦ (the) νόμου (law) καὶ τῶν προφητῶν.

RECEIVED TEXT
Νυνὶ δὲ χωρὶς νόμου δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ πεφανέρωται μαρτυρουμένη ὑπὸ τοῦ (the) νόμου (Law) καὶ τῶν προφητῶν.

Notice that there is no difference between the Critical and the Received Texts.

"...being witnessed by the law and the prophets..."

The Law and the Prophets = The whole Tanakh (24 books of the Hebrew Bible)

There would be absolutely no confusion is Christians studied the pharase "the Law" properly. Depending on the context it can mean:

1. THE WHOLE OLD TESTAMENT (the Law and the Prophets)

2. THE WHOLE TORAH -- Genesis to Deuteronomy

3. THE LAW OF MOSES (613 laws)

4. THE TEN COMMANDMENTS (10 laws)

Wrong verse.

 

[Grandpa]

Everyone seems to have their own understanding of what law they are under and what law they aren't under.

Its because very few have an understanding of what real Christianity is.

Paul kept trying to describe it to people but people were intent back then on twisting it and perverting it, just like they do today.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[OneFaith]

An exchange of "the"s? Curious indeed.

1 Timothy 4 says some will abandon The Faith. This chapter proves that this does not mean simple belief that God exists, because they followed different doctrinal ways of worshiping God. They strayed away from the doctrine of Christ (which is the new testament that the first church followed).

Christ has all authority over God's people today- that leaves no authority for even Moses. Is Christ going to then have us not obey God's laws from the old testament? No, He didn't come to destroy them but to fulfill them, in a different way. Moses had us obey God's laws physically, Jesus has us obey God's laws spiritually. It was the physical way that was nailed to the cross forevermore (amen), not the law itself. No more taking a sinner outside of the city and physically stoning them to death!

However, the law under Moses is still discussed in the new testament as "The Law". But this does not mean God's Law, it just means the physical way of obeying God's Law. So when it is said "We are no longer under the law." some people interpret that to mean "We no longer obey God's laws, including the ten comments, so christians can murder, steal, etc." But that is not the case. Under Christ we still obey God's laws, but we do so spiritually not physically. Which is why Jesus says that if you hate your brother you are already guilty of murder, because you spiritually broke the law not to murder.

 

[Latour]

Everyone seems to have their own understanding of what law they are under and what law they aren't under.

Its because very few have an understanding of what real Christianity is.

Paul kept trying to describe it to people but people were intent back then on twisting it and perverting it, just like they do today.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Law doesn't produce righteousness. But without law we wouldn't know what righteousness is. The law reveals righteousness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Wrong verse.

Does not matter. Same context. "law" does not stand by itself since that would be meaningless in Scripture. It is always "THE law".

 

[Latour]

Does not matter. Same context. "law" does not stand by itself since that would be meaningless in Scripture. It is always "THE law".

Look at the Greek.

 

[Embankment]

Look at the Greek.

The correct interpretation of the Bible has nothing to do with Greek or Latin or the Hebrew language. It has nothing to do with what translation you use.
It has nothing to do with king James or niv.
It has more to do with reading individual lines of scripture rather than passages or entire books.
The Bible has a way of repeating important point multiple times just in case you don’t get it the first time.
The stuff you question is milk and you should be on solid food
.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Look at the Greek.

Well look at the English. You will not find "law" without "the" in the translations. Which is as it should be. And in some instances (as I pointed out) "the" is also in the Greek. You should move on from this vain attempt to create a new meaning for the Law and get to the heart of the matter.

 

[Latour]

The correct interpretation of the Bible has nothing to do with Greek or Latin or the Hebrew language. It has nothing to do with what translation you use.
It has nothing to do with king James or niv.
It has more to do with reading individual lines of scripture rather than passages or entire books.
The Bible has a way of repeating important point multiple times just in case you don’t get it the first time.
The stuff you question is milk and you should be on solid food
.

This understanding of law is foundational to any further study. And the original language is KEY to that understanding.