Not By Works
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Amen! Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
John 15:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Notice that the branches that Jesus is talking about are branches that are IN HIM.
IN HIM = saved people.
So even those branches IN HIM/Saved that do not produce fruit, he will take them away and burn them. They lose their saved position and lose their EL.
It even says those branches iN HIM/Saved that do produce fruit will be purged in order to produce more fruit. IOW, even those branches that are IN HIM/Saved that produce fruit will go through further processes of getting rid of undesirables, with more cleansing and purifying in order to produce more fruit.
I know, there are scriptures that indicate that you need to just rely on Jesus and you have to do nothing. But then there are scriptures like this that indicate you need to be valiant in keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ and producing fruit for his kingdom. A wise man will be guided by this scripture rather than risk being cut off and burned with those that are non-producers.
I want to accomplish both. I want to trust that Jesus will keep his promises, and I will also love him and keep his commandments and try my hardest with the Holy Spirit to produce fruit for his kingdom. Is that not a good plan?
Yes, if my thinking is correct Abram was referred to as a Hebrew.
Genesis 14:13
13 Then one who had escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew, for he dwelt by the terebinth trees of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and brother of Aner; and they were allies with Abram.
It seems they were a distinct group whilst in Egypt (before Moses was born)
Exodus 1:19
19 And the midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are lively and give birth before the midwives come to them.”
Jacobs name was changed to Israel. Jacob being a descendant of Abraham have Sarah as a result not Issac and Rebbeca, voila we have Jacob.
Jacob and Leah had 12 kids, of one descendant being David and ultimately Jesus.
Jacobs 4th son was called Judah and his descendants were called Judean's which was shortened to "Jew"
So are not Jews Israelite Hebrews as they are descendants of Abraham a Hebrew, Jacob an Israelite, through Judah the Jew.
So are not Jews, Israelites & Hebrews Gods chosen people, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Not all Hebrews believed in Jesus either
Philippians 3:4-5
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
So we see Paul identified with his ancestry. Hebrew and Israel.
So I think there are Jews who believe in Christ, therefore are the promised seed of Abraham, Gods chosen people.
Possibly we could take it further.
Adam & Eve through which we have every human born.
As a result we have Abraham.
Also as a result we have Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus and so on.
Yet we know that many of them who do not believe now believe.
To me there is no such thing as a Hebrew Christan as there is no such thing as a Muslim Christian or a Cultural Christian because they live in a so called Christian country.
Our identity is in Jesus and not our roots.
I'm open to correction.
But one thing I must ask you.
You responded to my post about what will God judge us on?
You said "Keeping all his commandments, not just the 10"
Not seen your response yet.
Can you answer that and expand on his this fits in wth you being a Hebrew Christian and how it differs from not being a Hebrew Christian.
Ta
Bill
Genesis 14:13
13 Then one who had escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew, for he dwelt by the terebinth trees of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and brother of Aner; and they were allies with Abram.
It seems they were a distinct group whilst in Egypt (before Moses was born)
Exodus 1:19
19 And the midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are lively and give birth before the midwives come to them.”
Jacobs name was changed to Israel. Jacob being a descendant of Abraham have Sarah as a result not Issac and Rebbeca, voila we have Jacob.
Jacob and Leah had 12 kids, of one descendant being David and ultimately Jesus.
Jacobs 4th son was called Judah and his descendants were called Judean's which was shortened to "Jew"
So are not Jews Israelite Hebrews as they are descendants of Abraham a Hebrew, Jacob an Israelite, through Judah the Jew.
So are not Jews, Israelites & Hebrews Gods chosen people, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Not all Hebrews believed in Jesus either
Philippians 3:4-5
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
So we see Paul identified with his ancestry. Hebrew and Israel.
So I think there are Jews who believe in Christ, therefore are the promised seed of Abraham, Gods chosen people.
Possibly we could take it further.
Adam & Eve through which we have every human born.
As a result we have Abraham.
Also as a result we have Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus and so on.
Yet we know that many of them who do not believe now believe.
To me there is no such thing as a Hebrew Christan as there is no such thing as a Muslim Christian or a Cultural Christian because they live in a so called Christian country.
Our identity is in Jesus and not our roots.
I'm open to correction.
But one thing I must ask you.
You responded to my post about what will God judge us on?
You said "Keeping all his commandments, not just the 10"
Not seen your response yet.
Can you answer that and expand on his this fits in wth you being a Hebrew Christian and how it differs from not being a Hebrew Christian.
Ta
Bill
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You that there are scriptures that indicate that you just need to rely on Jesus and you have to do nothing.
Yet this is what you are fighting tooth and nail, as evidenced by your next sentence.
"Keeping the commandments of Jesus"
So either we have do to nothing but rely on Jesus per scripture that you say says this.
Or keep his commandments based on scripture that says we do.
Which one is it?
If scripture says we have do nothing then there is nothing to do.
Therefore scripture that says we have to do something, keep his commandments then it is contrary to each other.
So based on your first sentence we cannot be cut off from the vine, but based on your second sentence we can.
There is in fact only one thing that Jesus has asked us to do.
What is it?
You can answer that one.
But as a result of doing it what follows?
Once again I'll let you answer that.
With regards to your last paragraph I agree but would add a caveat.
If we focus on doing our hardest with the Holy Spirit then it can become us focused and not Holy Spirit focused.
What we may think is right or correct may infact not be.
That's why we should constantly be seeking what he wants to do in our lives rather than telling him what we want him to do.
He will use us according to his will and not ours.
Finally do me a favour.
Can you post scripture that backs up your first sentence.
I understand it is a long held tradition. Since today we live under a "new and better covenant" and we no longer live under the law but under grace; should not Jesus and the Holy Spirit be honored by this tradition as well. Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God so why not give them the same honor, it just seems only fair to add the Son and the Holy Spirit to this long held tradition.
God bless!
God bless!
God will judge us on whether we believe in His Son Jesus Christ. He will also judge us on living the commandments of His Son Jesus Christ.
Do we have to live the letter of the commandments or do we live the spirit of the Law of Christ. We live the spirit of the Law of Christ. No man can live the letter of the Law of Christ. Therefore we do all that we can, as we walk in the spirit of the Law of Christ, and what we fall short of, the grace of Jesus will make up for that and we will have righteousness imputed onto us and we will be judged clean and allowed to enter into the KOG.
But the whole thing rests with our attitude and our general spirit. If we have the right attitude and we trust that Jesus saved us and we trust that our belief will give us eternal life. And we trust that by being in Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit and that our fruit will be accepted by God, we are what is called "walking in the spirit".
Can we be perfect and fully sanctified and live the letter of the Law of Christ in this life, no. That means there has to be a greater power than ours to intercede to make up the shortfall and clean us of our sins and imperfections and make if possible to live with God and Jesus in EL. Jesus did that for us. That is why we praise him, and give glory to his Father, God.
Do we have to live the letter of the commandments or do we live the spirit of the Law of Christ. We live the spirit of the Law of Christ. No man can live the letter of the Law of Christ. Therefore we do all that we can, as we walk in the spirit of the Law of Christ, and what we fall short of, the grace of Jesus will make up for that and we will have righteousness imputed onto us and we will be judged clean and allowed to enter into the KOG.
But the whole thing rests with our attitude and our general spirit. If we have the right attitude and we trust that Jesus saved us and we trust that our belief will give us eternal life. And we trust that by being in Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit and that our fruit will be accepted by God, we are what is called "walking in the spirit".
Can we be perfect and fully sanctified and live the letter of the Law of Christ in this life, no. That means there has to be a greater power than ours to intercede to make up the shortfall and clean us of our sins and imperfections and make if possible to live with God and Jesus in EL. Jesus did that for us. That is why we praise him, and give glory to his Father, God.
You may think I am fighting against trust in Jesus tooth and toenail, but my last sentence says different. I want to adhere to both scriptures. I want to trust in Jesus and I want to keep his commandments. I believe a wise man will follow that path.
Scripture for the first sentence is by grace we are saved, not of works, lest ye boast, and you know that scripture. Another one would be, all we have to do is believe.
You can never throw away scriptures that say, those IN HIM who do not produce fruit will be cut off and burned. IOW those who are saved will lose their salvation if they don't produce fruit.
I have an idea you are doing a good job living both sides of the scriptures. Keep up the good work. i also believe that decon and TT and EG and VCO and all others on this forum are too.
Scripture for the first sentence is by grace we are saved, not of works, lest ye boast, and you know that scripture. Another one would be, all we have to do is believe.
You can never throw away scriptures that say, those IN HIM who do not produce fruit will be cut off and burned. IOW those who are saved will lose their salvation if they don't produce fruit.
I have an idea you are doing a good job living both sides of the scriptures. Keep up the good work. i also believe that decon and TT and EG and VCO and all others on this forum are too.
Scripture please to back up your first sentence.
So if you say we are judged on believe in Jesus, aka faith
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Then even we do not get it right, get it wrong we are still saved?
Is that correct?
So we seek to obey what Jesus has told us to do?
Yes that is correct as you say?
So maybe you can clarify any commandments that fall foul of before we die that God will judge us on that negates our faith and seperates us from God for eternity.
So if you say we are judged on believe in Jesus, aka faith
Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Then even we do not get it right, get it wrong we are still saved?
Is that correct?
So we seek to obey what Jesus has told us to do?
Yes that is correct as you say?
So maybe you can clarify any commandments that fall foul of before we die that God will judge us on that negates our faith and seperates us from God for eternity.
Paul, who was and is a saved child of God for eternity had no problem identifying himself as a JEW...and or identifying himself that he was raised in the Jewish law/religion....
I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin--a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law.
"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated under Gamaliel, strictly according to the law of our fathers, being zealous for God just as you all are today.
Jesus said, "Salvation is of the JEWS" to the woman at the well....
"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
And Paul said that in Christ their is neither JEW nor GENTILE
This whole HEBREW CHRISTIAN thing is a farce Bill..........
I was circumcised when I was eight days old. I am a pure-blooded citizen of Israel and a member of the tribe of Benjamin--a real Hebrew if there ever was one! I was a member of the Pharisees, who demand the strictest obedience to the Jewish law.
"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated under Gamaliel, strictly according to the law of our fathers, being zealous for God just as you all are today.
Jesus said, "Salvation is of the JEWS" to the woman at the well....
"You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
And Paul said that in Christ their is neither JEW nor GENTILE
This whole HEBREW CHRISTIAN thing is a farce Bill..........
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Please read my post again.
I did not say you were fighting Jesus truth and nail.
You said
I know, there are scriptures that indicate that you need to just rely on Jesus and you have to do nothing. But then there are scriptures like this that indicate you need to be valiant in keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ and producing fruit for his kog
Look at the bold above.
You say that you know there are scriptures they say you need to just rely on Jesus and you have to do nothing.
That is what you fight against tooth and nail
You have made many posts fighting that.
So I'm not saying you are fighting Jesus tooth and nail but I find it ironic that you say that that then in your next sentence contradict that by saying we have to do something in order to be saved.
So to me you are saying Faith saves and after that works save.
Yet you reverse that and now works save, or Keeping commandments save.
Yet I have to say that you believe that certain commandments that we may fall foul of then we are not saved and our faith is irrelevant
I did not say you were fighting Jesus truth and nail.
You said
I know, there are scriptures that indicate that you need to just rely on Jesus and you have to do nothing. But then there are scriptures like this that indicate you need to be valiant in keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ and producing fruit for his kog
Look at the bold above.
You say that you know there are scriptures they say you need to just rely on Jesus and you have to do nothing.
That is what you fight against tooth and nail
You have made many posts fighting that.
So I'm not saying you are fighting Jesus tooth and nail but I find it ironic that you say that that then in your next sentence contradict that by saying we have to do something in order to be saved.
So to me you are saying Faith saves and after that works save.
Yet you reverse that and now works save, or Keeping commandments save.
Yet I have to say that you believe that certain commandments that we may fall foul of then we are not saved and our faith is irrelevant
[QUOTE="dcontroversal, post: 3657286, member: 183444......This whole HEBREW CHRISTIAN thing is a farce Bill..........[/QUOTE]
d...,
Get the dryer and remove the mositure behind your ears. Geesch.
A jew uner the OT is different than a Jew uner the NT. Can't you see that?
Study the Bible........ and you can be helped.
d...,
Get the dryer and remove the mositure behind your ears. Geesch.
A jew uner the OT is different than a Jew uner the NT. Can't you see that?
Study the Bible........ and you can be helped.
d...,
Get the dryer and remove the mositure behind your ears. Geesch.
A jew uner the OT is different than a Jew uner the NT. Can't you see that?
Study the Bible........ and you can be helped.[/QUOTE]
What's the difference?
I ask this because in a previous post to you about being judged when you said we cannot be sure of salvation until we are judged.
You said "We will be judged according to our compliance of the law and not just the 10"
Get the dryer and remove the mositure behind your ears. Geesch.
A jew uner the OT is different than a Jew uner the NT. Can't you see that?
Study the Bible........ and you can be helped.[/QUOTE]
What's the difference?
I ask this because in a previous post to you about being judged when you said we cannot be sure of salvation until we are judged.
You said "We will be judged according to our compliance of the law and not just the 10"
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Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.