What must I do to be saved
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R
PennEd, why you hung up on that passage of scripture since we already know from other scriptures and from the Galatians that you forfeit salvation if you don't continue in faith in Christ for justification. Changing the metaphor in the Parable of the Sower doesn't change those other passages.
You'll find the steadfastness of lasting believing in the 4th kind of soil. Only they will not fall away into unbelief and being lost when Jesus returns.
You'll find the steadfastness of lasting believing in the 4th kind of soil. Only they will not fall away into unbelief and being lost when Jesus returns.
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I answered. That you do not like the answer does not mean I did not answer.
2 Timothy 2:
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive
Since you believe yourself to be a servant of the Lord, why do you continue to strive over your foolish question?
2 Timothy 2:
23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive
Since you believe yourself to be a servant of the Lord, why do you continue to strive over your foolish question?
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Hi Ralp,
I see your insistence of “continue to believe” in order to be saved. You have now call to the attention of 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 to make me believe that saving faith has to be in continuous way until the very end to be saved. Your English tenses now is to be observed that the reality is not continues faith in order to be saved, rather a simple faith is necessary, to believe (present tense) the gospel is to be save.
In this particular passage Paul once again brought the attention of the Corinthian church about the gospel.
What Paul preached (past tense) is the gospel right? And this gospel was received / believed (past tense) so that the some people of the Corinth were saved (past tense). The question would arise such as: For how many times did they received the gospel? For how many times they believed the gospel? What is needed to believe/ receive the gospel is once. Did the Corinth “continue to believe” in order to be saved? The scriptures say NO! The Corinth just received/believed (past tense) the gospel that was preached by Paul and they get saved.
Paul is saying that “if ye keep in memory” in other words this is not to neglect to remember that once they believed/ received the Gospel, the Corinth already got saved and are not going to “continue to believe” in order to be save. Except that as Paul says in the condition that their belief in the gospel is not true even though Paul preached to them. Such belief has no effect because it is some sort of unbelief to the Saviour that he can’t save and can’t keep save- the alternative is that YOU want to continue to believe in order to be save.
I see your insistence of “continue to believe” in order to be saved. You have now call to the attention of 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 to make me believe that saving faith has to be in continuous way until the very end to be saved. Your English tenses now is to be observed that the reality is not continues faith in order to be saved, rather a simple faith is necessary, to believe (present tense) the gospel is to be save.
In this particular passage Paul once again brought the attention of the Corinthian church about the gospel.
What Paul preached (past tense) is the gospel right? And this gospel was received / believed (past tense) so that the some people of the Corinth were saved (past tense). The question would arise such as: For how many times did they received the gospel? For how many times they believed the gospel? What is needed to believe/ receive the gospel is once. Did the Corinth “continue to believe” in order to be saved? The scriptures say NO! The Corinth just received/believed (past tense) the gospel that was preached by Paul and they get saved.
Paul is saying that “if ye keep in memory” in other words this is not to neglect to remember that once they believed/ received the Gospel, the Corinth already got saved and are not going to “continue to believe” in order to be save. Except that as Paul says in the condition that their belief in the gospel is not true even though Paul preached to them. Such belief has no effect because it is some sort of unbelief to the Saviour that he can’t save and can’t keep save- the alternative is that YOU want to continue to believe in order to be save.
Here’s the difference:
Ralp says continue in the faith in order to be saved. Not quite of what the Bible really says, in other words, the saved person because of his lack of faith still get unsaved and the unsaved person get save as long as he place again his faith and until the very end. Salvation is actually yet to be completed. Justification, which is the declaration of righteousness through faith, is misunderstood with term of James of justification which is the validation of the faith.
On the other hand, fredo says, the just shall live by faith. In other words, the saved are to live by faith. That’s simple and scripturally founded.
Ralp says continue in the faith in order to be saved. Not quite of what the Bible really says, in other words, the saved person because of his lack of faith still get unsaved and the unsaved person get save as long as he place again his faith and until the very end. Salvation is actually yet to be completed. Justification, which is the declaration of righteousness through faith, is misunderstood with term of James of justification which is the validation of the faith.
On the other hand, fredo says, the just shall live by faith. In other words, the saved are to live by faith. That’s simple and scripturally founded.
I already answered NO. I never suggested that it was the evil one sowing the seed in the parable of the sower. That was your assumption through your misunderstanding of what I originally said.
Yet the fact remains that the 2nd type of soil is unsaved soil. Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away does not represent saving faith in Christ. FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
*Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size.*
Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
*So as we can clearly see, the rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly preapared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience.
Yet the fact remains that the 2nd type of soil is unsaved soil. Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away does not represent saving faith in Christ. FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.
In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."
*Only the 4th soil produced crops of any size.*
Luke 8:15 says, But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
*So as we can clearly see, the rocky soil represents a person not properly prepared in heart so the seed planted ends up with a lack of "root" (lack of being firmly planted, or established) and good soil represents a person properly preapared in heart who having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keeps it and bears fruit with patience.
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No Ralph. WE do NOT know that you can forfeit your salvation once born again.
You, and others like you who believe you can lose Salvation CAN INDEED lose YOUR Salvation!
Those of us who believe we CANNOT lose our Salvation, will NEVER lose it, because WE KNOW the One who holds it, AND He KNOWS us!
We have fully put our trust in Jesus Christ. HE has given us NEW life via a NEW birth.
So this is what various lose your salvation people have put forward. I realize not every lose your salvation person believes each one of these, but all believe at least one.
1. You can lose your salvation by sinning at all. (sinless perfectionists)
2. You can lose your salvation by committing certain sins, or sinning willfully. (whatever that means, since all sin is willful)
3. You can lose your salvation by not following the Law ( some say ALL the Law, some pick and choose which Laws)
4.You can lose your salvation by not confessing your sin after you commit it. (unconfessed sin at death means ticket to hell)
5. You can lose your salvation by no longer believing or walking away from God. (some believe you can't ever come back, some do)
So here is how the Gospel would sound to a potential unsaved person by incorporating these heresies:
"Hello! Have you heard the Good News of Jesus Christ for salvation? All you have to do go to Heaven is believe that Jesus died for your sins and was resurrected. Then NEVER sin again, by following the Law, but, God forbid you do sin, and we're talking about ONLY non-willful sins here, you must confess and ask forgiveness for that NON-WILLFUL sin before the moment you die. MOST importantly, NEVER stop believing for a second or you can NEVER be saved again. Do all that stuff and you won't be cast into the Lake of Fire and suffer eternal judgement!!!!"
"Isn't that FANTASTIC NEWS!?"
No folks. It isn't.
You MUST be born again. That's the whole ball game.
You, and others like you who believe you can lose Salvation CAN INDEED lose YOUR Salvation!
Those of us who believe we CANNOT lose our Salvation, will NEVER lose it, because WE KNOW the One who holds it, AND He KNOWS us!
We have fully put our trust in Jesus Christ. HE has given us NEW life via a NEW birth.
So this is what various lose your salvation people have put forward. I realize not every lose your salvation person believes each one of these, but all believe at least one.
1. You can lose your salvation by sinning at all. (sinless perfectionists)
2. You can lose your salvation by committing certain sins, or sinning willfully. (whatever that means, since all sin is willful)
3. You can lose your salvation by not following the Law ( some say ALL the Law, some pick and choose which Laws)
4.You can lose your salvation by not confessing your sin after you commit it. (unconfessed sin at death means ticket to hell)
5. You can lose your salvation by no longer believing or walking away from God. (some believe you can't ever come back, some do)
So here is how the Gospel would sound to a potential unsaved person by incorporating these heresies:
"Hello! Have you heard the Good News of Jesus Christ for salvation? All you have to do go to Heaven is believe that Jesus died for your sins and was resurrected. Then NEVER sin again, by following the Law, but, God forbid you do sin, and we're talking about ONLY non-willful sins here, you must confess and ask forgiveness for that NON-WILLFUL sin before the moment you die. MOST importantly, NEVER stop believing for a second or you can NEVER be saved again. Do all that stuff and you won't be cast into the Lake of Fire and suffer eternal judgement!!!!"
"Isn't that FANTASTIC NEWS!?"
No folks. It isn't.
You MUST be born again. That's the whole ball game.
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If those who believe salvation can be lost know GOD, and are known by him, then they too can't lose their salvation according to your reasoning. So to say they can lose it doesn't make sense.
I'm having a hard time understanding how some people think that those who no longer believe in GOD can be saved. GOD is not pleased with people who draw back from faith, so how can such a person be saved?
I'm having a hard time understanding how some people think that those who no longer believe in GOD can be saved. GOD is not pleased with people who draw back from faith, so how can such a person be saved?
But the righteous will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul is not well pleased with him. But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction, but among those who have faith to the preservation of our souls. Hebrews 10:38-39
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R
That is right because that would mean the sower in the Parable of the Sower is the devil, for he is the one who plants the sons of the evil one among the sons of the kingdom.
Besides this not being a parable about people being planted, the 4th type of soil shows us that the sower is sowing good seed and so it can't be the evil one doing the sowing. So mailmandan's suggestion that because what grew in the 2nd type of soil got uprooted shows it was an unsaved planting of the devil is false.
Besides this not being a parable about people being planted, the 4th type of soil shows us that the sower is sowing good seed and so it can't be the evil one doing the sowing. So mailmandan's suggestion that because what grew in the 2nd type of soil got uprooted shows it was an unsaved planting of the devil is false.
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R
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved (present tense), if you hold fast (present tense) the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. "-1 Corinthians 15:1-2
You can check the verb tenses for yourself here: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002. Click on the 'parse' button next to each verb to view verb information.
The tenses show us that you are presently saved if you are presently abiding in the word of the gospel that you heard and received. Obviously, if you are not presently believing you are not saved. You can't stop believing in and abiding in the gospel truth and still be saved. You will be turned away when Christ returns. You must continue to believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back.
And for you people who are sure a Christian can never stop believing in Christ for justification, read Galatians.
You can check the verb tenses for yourself here: https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002. Click on the 'parse' button next to each verb to view verb information.
The tenses show us that you are presently saved if you are presently abiding in the word of the gospel that you heard and received. Obviously, if you are not presently believing you are not saved. You can't stop believing in and abiding in the gospel truth and still be saved. You will be turned away when Christ returns. You must continue to believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back.
And for you people who are sure a Christian can never stop believing in Christ for justification, read Galatians.
Cmon dude. The point I was making shouldn't be this hard. I DON'T believe you can lose your salvation. EVEN those who THINK they can, if they have been born again, CAN'T lose it.
But the righteous will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul is not well pleased with him. But WE are not among THOSE who shrink back to destruction, but among those who have faith to the preservation of our souls. Hebrews 10:38-39
Those who have faith to the preservation of our souls, are those who are born again. We are intrinsically HIS CHILDREN if we are born again.
Now you KNOW the passage that deals with those who have shrunk back. You KNOW that John tells us that every one of them were NEVER of US. Here it is again for clarification:
1 John 2:19 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that NONE of them were of us.
But the righteous will live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul is not well pleased with him. But WE are not among THOSE who shrink back to destruction, but among those who have faith to the preservation of our souls. Hebrews 10:38-39
Those who have faith to the preservation of our souls, are those who are born again. We are intrinsically HIS CHILDREN if we are born again.
Now you KNOW the passage that deals with those who have shrunk back. You KNOW that John tells us that every one of them were NEVER of US. Here it is again for clarification:
1 John 2:19 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that NONE of them were of us.
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I surely hope that no one believes that the new birth alone, i.e., apart from an abiding faith in Christ, will save a person. That was the error of the gnostics, who believed their spiritual nature saved them. In other words, they put their faith in the belief (knowledge) that they were eternal spirit beings who could never perish. That's quite different from being saved by abiding in faith in Christ.
None of these scriptures deal with the truth of us being judged according to our deeds.
On the Day of Judgement we shall all shall be judged according to our deeds.
Jesus taught this to His disciples.
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29
Paul says it this way.
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
JPT
On the Day of Judgement we shall all shall be judged according to our deeds.
Jesus taught this to His disciples.
28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29
- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
- those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Paul says it this way.
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8
God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
- but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
JPT