Should a Christian tithe, what does the Bible say
- Thread starter Danny1988
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there's a lot more going on here than that.
it was a conspiracy with a defined purpose, and that purpose wasn't "stash some $$$" according to the text.
a conspiracy to test the Holy Spirit. who all were involved? what was the plan? how would the Spirit be tested? what were they trying to accomplish? who came up with this? why? why does this come right after Acts 4? why is Barnabas mentioned just before this event?
have a look at how many times in the Bible God Himself struck dead a person immediately like this - e.g. Uzzah reaching out to steady the ark, Nadab and Abihu bringing a perverted incense into the temple, the people involved in the Korah rebellion. these things are all related by the action God took. you'll find self-same reasons behind them according to the self-same character of God.
preaching Acts 5 as part of a 'put cash in the plate as it's passed' sermon is an example of agenda-driven interpretation of the Bible. starting off with the idea of using the scripture to get the congregation to hand over their money, then searching through the Book to find whatever you can to fit into that purpose.
but the book is about Jesus, not about money. we only get it right when we look through the scriptures for Him - if we let the text say what the text says, and then seek to understand it, we get a very different impression of what this account is about than we do if we approach it looking for ways to preach the wallets out of people's pockets.
there's nothing in the text that says these two were motivated by love of money or that they were executed for greed. Danny's pastor inserted those ideas because that's what was on his mind, and he sought to use the Bible as a tool to achieve his purpose - or he himself was likewise deceived by someone who did the same thing before him, just like Danny himself is now repeating what he was taught.
Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord?"
(Acts 5:9)
(Acts 5:9)
it was a conspiracy with a defined purpose, and that purpose wasn't "stash some $$$" according to the text.
a conspiracy to test the Holy Spirit. who all were involved? what was the plan? how would the Spirit be tested? what were they trying to accomplish? who came up with this? why? why does this come right after Acts 4? why is Barnabas mentioned just before this event?
have a look at how many times in the Bible God Himself struck dead a person immediately like this - e.g. Uzzah reaching out to steady the ark, Nadab and Abihu bringing a perverted incense into the temple, the people involved in the Korah rebellion. these things are all related by the action God took. you'll find self-same reasons behind them according to the self-same character of God.
preaching Acts 5 as part of a 'put cash in the plate as it's passed' sermon is an example of agenda-driven interpretation of the Bible. starting off with the idea of using the scripture to get the congregation to hand over their money, then searching through the Book to find whatever you can to fit into that purpose.
but the book is about Jesus, not about money. we only get it right when we look through the scriptures for Him - if we let the text say what the text says, and then seek to understand it, we get a very different impression of what this account is about than we do if we approach it looking for ways to preach the wallets out of people's pockets.
there's nothing in the text that says these two were motivated by love of money or that they were executed for greed. Danny's pastor inserted those ideas because that's what was on his mind, and he sought to use the Bible as a tool to achieve his purpose - or he himself was likewise deceived by someone who did the same thing before him, just like Danny himself is now repeating what he was taught.
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what kind of mindset is it that suggests you can judge salvation by watching the collection plate go down a pew?
here's the reaction such preaching evokes:
my friend is this not called "making merchandise of His people" and selling salvation for money" ?
there's a man under a spotlight on a podium telling you if you don't give him $$$ you go to hell. how are you not suspicious?
Christ angrily drove the moneychangers out of the temple.
here's the reaction such preaching evokes:
- feel guilty and doomed
- desire to be saved
- attempt to move yourself from the 'hell-doomed' into the 'redeemed' camp by throwing cash at the problem
my friend is this not called "making merchandise of His people" and selling salvation for money" ?
there's a man under a spotlight on a podium telling you if you don't give him $$$ you go to hell. how are you not suspicious?
Christ angrily drove the moneychangers out of the temple.
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First, if your pastor taught you this, let the dust fly from your feet as you run from that church; it's a cult in the making.
Second, if you came up with it yourself, how can you possibly know that it's true? It is inherently self-defeating.
Third, if you accept it as true, and you as a non-shepherd don't have the "gift of rightly discerning Scripture" you can never know for sure whether what your pastor is teaching is sound doctrine.
Fourth, I challenge you to support your assertion with Scripture. There is no "gift of rightly discerning Scripture" described, or even suggested, in the Bible.
Fifth, that is the reasoning of the Catholic Church, which insists on following the wisdom of "mother Church" and discourages its adherents from thinking for themselves. It makes for a deeply-misguided church.
Sixth, nowhere in Scripture are we encouraged to park our brains at the door of the church on the way in; quite the opposite.
Seventh, you have no idea whether I'm a "shepherd" or not. Stop making assertions from ignorance. It does you no credit.
God gives each of us the ability and authority to think for ourselves. Abdication of that capacity leads to folly, error, and sin. Use the brain God gave you.
Second, if you came up with it yourself, how can you possibly know that it's true? It is inherently self-defeating.
Third, if you accept it as true, and you as a non-shepherd don't have the "gift of rightly discerning Scripture" you can never know for sure whether what your pastor is teaching is sound doctrine.
Fourth, I challenge you to support your assertion with Scripture. There is no "gift of rightly discerning Scripture" described, or even suggested, in the Bible.
Fifth, that is the reasoning of the Catholic Church, which insists on following the wisdom of "mother Church" and discourages its adherents from thinking for themselves. It makes for a deeply-misguided church.
Sixth, nowhere in Scripture are we encouraged to park our brains at the door of the church on the way in; quite the opposite.
Seventh, you have no idea whether I'm a "shepherd" or not. Stop making assertions from ignorance. It does you no credit.
God gives each of us the ability and authority to think for ourselves. Abdication of that capacity leads to folly, error, and sin. Use the brain God gave you.
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to be honest it's actually pretty appealing to think that i can get eternal life by writing a check to pay a bill every week, and then acting more-or-less ethically in-between trips to the clerk's fancy office.
like having a subscription to salvation. easy-peasy, and i don't have to think about it much, just sign on the dotted line.
sucks if you're poor, tho.
like having a subscription to salvation. easy-peasy, and i don't have to think about it much, just sign on the dotted line.
sucks if you're poor, tho.
Perhaps; I would certainly sooner support an overtly Christian organization. His point was not to support UNICEF specifically, but to support charity work rather than the local church if the concern is for "starving children". 
honestly i'm personally more moved by the water thing.
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if Christians would actually do research on where the money they donate goes, I am positive they would be demanding refunds from some of the places they donated to
it's not enough to give...as stewards of our resources, we need to know that our hard earned $$$ is going to a legitimate and credible place
for instance, I really do not wanna help Benny buy another plane or another and bigger house and I really do not wanna help buy a 40,000 car for a pastor and I really do not wanna be told God will give me double for what I give and all that other junk
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how much did Ananias and Sapphira conspire to hold back?
did they bring 12% of the valuation of the land to Peter?
((re: Leviticus 27:30-31 - the redemption price of a tithe converted to money?))
was this the conspiracy? trying to trap the believers in a situation that made it look like Peter was collecting the tithe, giving the Sanhedrin excuse to have him arrested and put to death?
did they bring 12% of the valuation of the land to Peter?
((re: Leviticus 27:30-31 - the redemption price of a tithe converted to money?))
was this the conspiracy? trying to trap the believers in a situation that made it look like Peter was collecting the tithe, giving the Sanhedrin excuse to have him arrested and put to death?
pardon my saying so, Danny, but this comes across like a "no, i can't provide scripture to back up what i said, but read the Bible it's probably in there somewhere"
that's illustrative of the kind of danger that goes along with thinking only the guy in the nice suit under the spotlight is able to rightly discern. i'd suggest pray for understanding and go look for what the scripture actually says about the statements that you made. you're not talking to a lot of ignorant people here; CC is statistically made up of people who are far more Biblically literate than the average crowd or even the average congregation. a lot of us are here because we're more Biblically literate than the common man and we're seeking out like-minded brothers and sisters.
you're getting criticism because people want you to know the truth and they believe you've been misled. don't take it s maliciousness; in fact it's love - even if it may be misdirected or poorly stated. by and large we're all here because we love the Truth, and the truth about these things we're discussing is ultimately everyone's goal and motivation, just like it's yours.
that's illustrative of the kind of danger that goes along with thinking only the guy in the nice suit under the spotlight is able to rightly discern. i'd suggest pray for understanding and go look for what the scripture actually says about the statements that you made. you're not talking to a lot of ignorant people here; CC is statistically made up of people who are far more Biblically literate than the average crowd or even the average congregation. a lot of us are here because we're more Biblically literate than the common man and we're seeking out like-minded brothers and sisters.
you're getting criticism because people want you to know the truth and they believe you've been misled. don't take it s maliciousness; in fact it's love - even if it may be misdirected or poorly stated. by and large we're all here because we love the Truth, and the truth about these things we're discussing is ultimately everyone's goal and motivation, just like it's yours.
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To be fair that's totally consistent with the position that only pastors are able to rightly discern scripture.
Danny not himself being a pastor, it would be hypocritical of him to read and quote scripture as though he understands it....
'course, that makes his advice that we should read the Bible ourselves kind of odd. does he assume we're pastors? why is he arguing then?
it's all very weird indeed!
Danny not himself being a pastor, it would be hypocritical of him to read and quote scripture as though he understands it....
'course, that makes his advice that we should read the Bible ourselves kind of odd. does he assume we're pastors? why is he arguing then?
it's all very weird indeed!
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