What must I do to be saved
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I'm not making a strawman. You are making a deal to cheat death that can't stand.
Once again, the man never said this. It is what you perceive him to have said.
At least you are now admitting what he "seems" to you to believe now. This is the NNMcGee I know. At least you have made dialogue remotely possible now.
Once again, the man never said this. It is what you perceive him to have said.
At least you are now admitting what he "seems" to you to believe now. This is the NNMcGee I know. At least you have made dialogue remotely possible now.
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i dont see anything wrong with anything ive said
and if i did id say sorry...
id expect the same from you
or atleast the you i thought i knew
if latore comes back
and admit he believes
its possible to sin <- still be saved during and after -> without additional works
BECAUSE the imputed righteousness of Jesus which is given to all who are born again
i will say sorry... and mean it
but if he admits he believes
if you sin <- you are not and can not be currently saved
then i want an apology from you
because that is works salvation <- false doctrine
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I think I understand that what you are asking for here is that if this man comes back and says that every time a man shows a lack of faith or lets his flesh rule him then God abandons him, then you want me to apologize to you...?
I don't think the man will say that. Because he seems to understand scripture and so I think he knows God doesn't abandon a man for that but instead prunes him.
He may not come back, but if he does, I'm sure he can speak for himself. He certainly didn't seem timid to me.
I don't think the man will say that. Because he seems to understand scripture and so I think he knows God doesn't abandon a man for that but instead prunes him.
He may not come back, but if he does, I'm sure he can speak for himself. He certainly didn't seem timid to me.
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My relationship with the Lord is not in question. He's known me since before he created this world and he called by name to me when I was a child and responded by accepting Christ as my Savior.
Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go. Joshua 1:9
What 2nd Peter is referring to are the fruits of the spirit. Doing good work isn't how we stay saved. It is evidence we are saved. We don't have to help God to save us. Christ did all the work on the cross. If someone lives in the faith they have to work to help God fulfill his promise , so be it. That is not the God I serve.
Lesson 15: Salvation and Good Works (Ephesians 2:10)
When it comes to the subject of “salvation and good works,” there are two serious errors that plague the church. One is that of Roman Catholicism, which teaches that in order to gain enough merit for salvation, we must add our good works to what Christ did on the cross. Under this view, you can never know for sure whether or not you are saved, because there is no way to check your “merit balance” to see if you’ve stored up enough. So you have to keep adding good works in the hope of gaining eternal life. Under Roman Catholic teaching, a person could never say what Paul says in Ephesians 2:8, “you have been saved.” https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-15-salvation-and-good-works-ephesians-210
Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go. Joshua 1:9
What 2nd Peter is referring to are the fruits of the spirit. Doing good work isn't how we stay saved. It is evidence we are saved. We don't have to help God to save us. Christ did all the work on the cross. If someone lives in the faith they have to work to help God fulfill his promise , so be it. That is not the God I serve.
Lesson 15: Salvation and Good Works (Ephesians 2:10)
When it comes to the subject of “salvation and good works,” there are two serious errors that plague the church. One is that of Roman Catholicism, which teaches that in order to gain enough merit for salvation, we must add our good works to what Christ did on the cross. Under this view, you can never know for sure whether or not you are saved, because there is no way to check your “merit balance” to see if you’ve stored up enough. So you have to keep adding good works in the hope of gaining eternal life. Under Roman Catholic teaching, a person could never say what Paul says in Ephesians 2:8, “you have been saved.” https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-15-salvation-and-good-works-ephesians-210
R
I hope you are not greedy, covetous, lustful, jealous, or hateful, etc. every day. But if you are take heart that as a believer you can expect to not always be that way. The fourth type of soil is a very realistic and attainable future for the believer who is overcome by sin now.
And remember that the temptation to sin is not sinning.
And remember that the temptation to sin is not sinning.
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Old people obviously sin less as they have had more time to learn how to fight temptation. True believers become less sinful every day, they can still slip and commit big sins now and then but we will become better as we age.
The main thing is true believers have the 100% guarantee that we can never lose our salvation, no matter what sin we may commit, except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
The main thing is true believers have the 100% guarantee that we can never lose our salvation, no matter what sin we may commit, except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit
I see that you completely ignored post #356. 
SOLA FIDE IS TRUE and salvation by works is FALSE (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). When you hear genuine believers say that we are saved by "faith alone," they are not saying that we are saved by the "kind" of faith that "remains alone" (barren of works--empty profession of faith/dead faith--James 2:14). Saving faith results in producing good works so it's not alone "in that sense" but it's still faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation that is the instrumental means by which we receive salvation. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine faith in Christ, but they are not the means of our salvation.
*So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
*It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Believers suffer for His sake BECAUSE we are saved and not to become saved. Philippians 1:27 - Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
Salvation by works (which is the only thing that the natural man can understand - 1 Corinthians 2:14) is not clear in these passages.
By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, Christians can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected - bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). To practice these qualities gives evidence of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being saved (FAITH) Effect of being saved (FRUIT).
For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9).
What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart?
The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source. 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10).
*Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.
That sums up Roman Catholicism.
Those who believe the gospel will go to heaven (Romans 1:16). Those who do not believe the gospel will not go to heaven. 2 Corinthians 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS. SOLA FIDE IS TRUE.
That is supposed to be funny?
SOLA FIDE IS TRUE and salvation by works is FALSE (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). When you hear genuine believers say that we are saved by "faith alone," they are not saying that we are saved by the "kind" of faith that "remains alone" (barren of works--empty profession of faith/dead faith--James 2:14). Saving faith results in producing good works so it's not alone "in that sense" but it's still faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation that is the instrumental means by which we receive salvation. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of genuine faith in Christ, but they are not the means of our salvation.
*So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.
*It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Believers suffer for His sake BECAUSE we are saved and not to become saved. Philippians 1:27 - Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
Salvation by works (which is the only thing that the natural man can understand - 1 Corinthians 2:14) is not clear in these passages.
By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, Christians can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected - bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). To practice these qualities gives evidence of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being saved (FAITH) Effect of being saved (FRUIT).
For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9).
What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart?
The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source. 10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10).
*Proverbs 24:16, we read - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.
That sums up Roman Catholicism.
Those who believe the gospel will go to heaven (Romans 1:16). Those who do not believe the gospel will not go to heaven. 2 Corinthians 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is NOT BY WORKS. SOLA FIDE IS TRUE.
That is supposed to be funny?
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Romans 3:23 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
I think everyone would agree that the bible supports the righteousness of faith leading to the manifestation of the righteousness of God being upon the one who has faith in Christ.
Is this something so unheard of that we should no longer heed the law and the prophets?
Actually, the opposite. If we agree with the righteousness of GOd in Christ then ipso facto we also agree with the law and the prophets who POINT to Christ.
But people will usually see this out of balance with the rest of scripture. They will make things either/or rather than both/and.
But now notice this...
Paul says... (not me)
Gal. 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Love fulfills the law! It always did and it always will. So then they who love others are loved of God. The Samaritan in the parable loved his neighbour...and saved his life. He did everything he could to help another. THIS is righteous in God's eyes. This is the minimum standard of salvation from God. The righteous are scarcely saved....but the saints are abundantly saved (since they love both God and men)
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Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Not sure why I post scripture for people who can't understand it but I still do. Maybe it is for those few who are about to follow their carnal instincts but are hesitating...
People who think there is a minimum standard for Salvation haven't been to Christ yet. The minimum standard and the maximum standard are exactly the same. And that is that you must know that you cannot attain ANY righteousness before God by any work that YOU do.
And that is how the law is a schoolmaster to bring you to Christ. If you are really hungering and thirsting for Righteousness and find out you can't manufacture it on your own what do you do, where do you go?
You eventually quit banging your head on the same wall everyone else is and you call out to the Lord Jesus Christ. You ask Him for His Help.
Once you get His Help you realize that the work to attain Righteousness was set at a much higher bar than you originally realized and you know better than to try it on your own again. You know that your ONLY hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Not sure why I post scripture for people who can't understand it but I still do. Maybe it is for those few who are about to follow their carnal instincts but are hesitating...
People who think there is a minimum standard for Salvation haven't been to Christ yet. The minimum standard and the maximum standard are exactly the same. And that is that you must know that you cannot attain ANY righteousness before God by any work that YOU do.
And that is how the law is a schoolmaster to bring you to Christ. If you are really hungering and thirsting for Righteousness and find out you can't manufacture it on your own what do you do, where do you go?
You eventually quit banging your head on the same wall everyone else is and you call out to the Lord Jesus Christ. You ask Him for His Help.
Once you get His Help you realize that the work to attain Righteousness was set at a much higher bar than you originally realized and you know better than to try it on your own again. You know that your ONLY hope is in the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Although true, it's more than just that. The older you get in the Lord the more you recognize the ugliness of our humanness and the futility of this life to the point you despise and reject it.
Instead of looking at it as a numbers game, realize that what's happening is you are changing, not just getting better at resisting sin. Your mind is literally being changed about sin. In time, sin is no longer the attractive thing you long to do but which God says you shouldn't do. Instead, you literally begin to see sin for what it is and you despise it.
Sin is an addiction, and like any addiction you aren't going to get over it until you hate it and what it does to you and those around you to the point of not wanting to touch it anymore. Contrast that to how you started your struggle with sin--you wanted to do it but you knew that you shouldn't. Just wanting to not sin is not enough. You have to grow to hate it. That takes time. It happens as the Lord lets you face many situations and circumstances and places and failures in life that bring you to a profound hatred of sin. That's what growing up in the Lord is.
That's right. The only thing that can cause you to forfeit your salvation is you turning away from the forgiveness of God in Christ in unbelief. Like the Galatians were doing.
Instead of looking at it as a numbers game, realize that what's happening is you are changing, not just getting better at resisting sin. Your mind is literally being changed about sin. In time, sin is no longer the attractive thing you long to do but which God says you shouldn't do. Instead, you literally begin to see sin for what it is and you despise it.
Sin is an addiction, and like any addiction you aren't going to get over it until you hate it and what it does to you and those around you to the point of not wanting to touch it anymore. Contrast that to how you started your struggle with sin--you wanted to do it but you knew that you shouldn't. Just wanting to not sin is not enough. You have to grow to hate it. That takes time. It happens as the Lord lets you face many situations and circumstances and places and failures in life that bring you to a profound hatred of sin. That's what growing up in the Lord is.
That's right. The only thing that can cause you to forfeit your salvation is you turning away from the forgiveness of God in Christ in unbelief. Like the Galatians were doing.
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They do, but they believe it doesn't have to. But we know that James said faith without works can not save (James 2:14), and that Paul said the faith that justifies is the faith that works (Galatians 5:6). To them those can only be understood as a works gospel so they reject what they have said and insist that dead faith does save, and faith that does not work is also the faith that justifies.
This is the very truth that is being kept from the church. They are being taught that grace is their excuse to not have to keep the commands of God (if they don't feel like it because that would be 'works' if they forced themselves to do it). But the Bible says grace is the very thing that teaches them to keep the commands of God. They're not getting that lesson.
The Good Samaritan is actually fulfilling the requirements of the law governing cases of violence and physical injury (Exodus 21:18-19) even though he's not the one that caused the injury. It's an illustration of the love of God, and how we're supposed to be like that. God met the requirements of the law for the just penalty and payment for sin on the cross even though he's not the one that sinned and has no obligation to do so, but did so out of love for us. That's how we're supposed to be. That is the 'work' part of James' faith that can save and the 'work' part of Paul's faith that justifies. For faith that is 'alone' is the faith that can not save nor justify. The faith that justifies (imputes righteousness) apart from works (Romans 4:6) is the faith that works (Galatians 5:6).
This is the very truth that is being kept from the church. They are being taught that grace is their excuse to not have to keep the commands of God (if they don't feel like it because that would be 'works' if they forced themselves to do it). But the Bible says grace is the very thing that teaches them to keep the commands of God. They're not getting that lesson.
The Good Samaritan is actually fulfilling the requirements of the law governing cases of violence and physical injury (Exodus 21:18-19) even though he's not the one that caused the injury. It's an illustration of the love of God, and how we're supposed to be like that. God met the requirements of the law for the just penalty and payment for sin on the cross even though he's not the one that sinned and has no obligation to do so, but did so out of love for us. That's how we're supposed to be. That is the 'work' part of James' faith that can save and the 'work' part of Paul's faith that justifies. For faith that is 'alone' is the faith that can not save nor justify. The faith that justifies (imputes righteousness) apart from works (Romans 4:6) is the faith that works (Galatians 5:6).
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