-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
God let me join a church with my family. I wanted to be able to speak with tongues and asked God for the same. He said He would do it but we had to do it His way. We had joined a Free-will Baptist Church in our town. They baptized with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit phrase.
God showed me that they failed to take authority in the name of Jesus, in scripture. I wanted to just go to a Pentecostal Church, but God made me go to the Baptist Church and show them the scripture references. To my surprise, the Reverend and the head Deacon went through the scriptures and agreed to re-baptize us.
Enter Satan. The Reverend's wife comes from a long line of Baptists. When she heard of the plans, she gets on the phone to an uncle from the good ol' Southern Baptists. Soon a whole committee of preachers start calling and talk them out of it. They called me in to tell me and I said: "You'll understand then if we go somewhere else." They were all for it, they just wanted out from under the conundrum.
God showed me that they failed to take authority in the name of Jesus, in scripture. I wanted to just go to a Pentecostal Church, but God made me go to the Baptist Church and show them the scripture references. To my surprise, the Reverend and the head Deacon went through the scriptures and agreed to re-baptize us.
Enter Satan. The Reverend's wife comes from a long line of Baptists. When she heard of the plans, she gets on the phone to an uncle from the good ol' Southern Baptists. Soon a whole committee of preachers start calling and talk them out of it. They called me in to tell me and I said: "You'll understand then if we go somewhere else." They were all for it, they just wanted out from under the conundrum.
-
1
- Show all
S
It's the Holy Spirit that testifies to the truth.
After i got saved i knew that Jesus was the Christ and the bible was the infallible Word of God before i ever even opened it up to read it. In fact, it was the inner witness of the Holy Spirit testifying to the truth of the Scriptures that made me want to start reading them in the first place. I was born again and i knew the truth.
As far as i'm concerned, you might as well not waste the time in trying to show me a bunch of facts of human understanding about what you think you know. I look to Christ alone for my instruction and understanding, and that's what makes him my Lord.
Romans 10:9-10
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
After i got saved i knew that Jesus was the Christ and the bible was the infallible Word of God before i ever even opened it up to read it. In fact, it was the inner witness of the Holy Spirit testifying to the truth of the Scriptures that made me want to start reading them in the first place. I was born again and i knew the truth.
As far as i'm concerned, you might as well not waste the time in trying to show me a bunch of facts of human understanding about what you think you know. I look to Christ alone for my instruction and understanding, and that's what makes him my Lord.
Romans 10:9-10
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
S
So, you heard of Jesus without ever knowing there was a bible, God, or Church? You had a personal revelation that woke you up to the consciousness that a Man-God named Jesus of Nazareth (He is actually from Bethlehem, that was important since you know, prophecy..), did a bunch of miracles, taught a lot of people, and claimed to be the creator of the universe? If so then I believe you when you say that you knew Jesus even before you opened up a bible.
Personally I would arm myself with the truth, ask to speak to the pastor with one witness present (like a deacon), present him with the truth, ask WHY he teaches what he teaches and if he is wrong and will not stand up and change his mind or what he is praching that is blatantly wrong = grounds to remove him....
There are two valid reasons in the bible to vacate the pulpit and only 2
a. If he is living an immoral life
b. If he is preaching heresy and or that which is false
If the above path does not result in a good path....Leave.....!!
NOTE: The above two reasons are the only valid reasons biblically....personality conflict, something that is not obvious heresy, a difference of opinion, he wears a blue tie instead of red, etc.....are not valid reasons to remove a man from behind the pulpit.
There are two valid reasons in the bible to vacate the pulpit and only 2
a. If he is living an immoral life
b. If he is preaching heresy and or that which is false
If the above path does not result in a good path....Leave.....!!
NOTE: The above two reasons are the only valid reasons biblically....personality conflict, something that is not obvious heresy, a difference of opinion, he wears a blue tie instead of red, etc.....are not valid reasons to remove a man from behind the pulpit.
Lots of answers that seem to be divided into 2 camps.
1. Walk away now, as fast as you can. Maybe even sneak out during the prayer because this preacher isn't preaching Moses! (Oops! That wasn't quite what someone said, but he says it enough elsewhere, it seemed relevant!)
2. Go to the person first. Tell them your concerns. If they don't listen, then leave.
But, what does the Bible say? I guess it would depend upon whether you agreed with the idea that preaching bad doctrine is sin. I think most people would agree with that. If not, carry on! So, the Bible:
"“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, so that at the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. If he refuses to listen to the church, treat him like a Gentile or a tax collector." Matt 18:1517
So, show him alone, show him in the presence of 2 or 3 witnesses. I confess, I fall short of that biblical standard, and 2 pages into this thread, so does everyone else, from what I read.
I do agree that having someone preaching false doctrine is wrong. Our new preacher is an open theist. I know this, because he told me. I have yet to heard him preach it yet. In fact, he is a very Biblical preacher. Maybe because he knows that I am watching him like a hawk, along with many others, and I will go to him alone, and then before the elder board, if he ever preaches open theism in my church. And if he wasn't rebuked, I would leave.
But, people, let us look at what the Bible says first, instead of all these chatty stories that have more to do with opinions and grievances and probably hurts, than following what the Bible sets point for us to do in these circumstances.
1. Walk away now, as fast as you can. Maybe even sneak out during the prayer because this preacher isn't preaching Moses! (Oops! That wasn't quite what someone said, but he says it enough elsewhere, it seemed relevant!)
2. Go to the person first. Tell them your concerns. If they don't listen, then leave.
But, what does the Bible say? I guess it would depend upon whether you agreed with the idea that preaching bad doctrine is sin. I think most people would agree with that. If not, carry on! So, the Bible:
"“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, so that at the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. If he refuses to listen to the church, treat him like a Gentile or a tax collector." Matt 18:1517
So, show him alone, show him in the presence of 2 or 3 witnesses. I confess, I fall short of that biblical standard, and 2 pages into this thread, so does everyone else, from what I read.
I do agree that having someone preaching false doctrine is wrong. Our new preacher is an open theist. I know this, because he told me. I have yet to heard him preach it yet. In fact, he is a very Biblical preacher. Maybe because he knows that I am watching him like a hawk, along with many others, and I will go to him alone, and then before the elder board, if he ever preaches open theism in my church. And if he wasn't rebuked, I would leave.
But, people, let us look at what the Bible says first, instead of all these chatty stories that have more to do with opinions and grievances and probably hurts, than following what the Bible sets point for us to do in these circumstances.
-
1
- Show all
R
Founded?
I disagree. With the exception of sorting out the matter of the law with the elders at Jerusalem, the Christian faith started out very consistent and in agreement among it's founders. Paul told the Ephesians that wolves would soon come in and devour, which a simple look at history proved to be true.
I actually agree with this.
You can only successfully wade through the abundance of conflicting and contradictory opinions with the aide of the Holy Spirit and eyes and heart wide open.
AMEN!
Yes, I'm shouting, lol.
I learned the hard way to stop making the Bible not really mean what it says. I got called out on it and had to admit I was doing that and making it hard for people who I wanted to find the truth find the truth.
Most of which I have personally been able to work through.
I would not say quite a few.
What contradictions do you see? If I try real hard I may be able to remember what some are that people see in the Bible. And if I think real hard again I may remember the one, maybe two apparent contradictions I have not been able to reconcile yet. But those have hardly caused me to give up the forgiveness of God I have received. The bedrock of saving faith is knowing that God has forgiven your sin through Christ. The person who is resting securely on that rock can not be easily moved by minor issues. They can be troublesome to less firmly grounded believers and truth seekers though for sure.
I disagree. With the exception of sorting out the matter of the law with the elders at Jerusalem, the Christian faith started out very consistent and in agreement among it's founders. Paul told the Ephesians that wolves would soon come in and devour, which a simple look at history proved to be true.
I actually agree with this.
You can only successfully wade through the abundance of conflicting and contradictory opinions with the aide of the Holy Spirit and eyes and heart wide open.
AMEN!
Yes, I'm shouting, lol.
I learned the hard way to stop making the Bible not really mean what it says. I got called out on it and had to admit I was doing that and making it hard for people who I wanted to find the truth find the truth.
Most of which I have personally been able to work through.
I would not say quite a few.
What contradictions do you see? If I try real hard I may be able to remember what some are that people see in the Bible. And if I think real hard again I may remember the one, maybe two apparent contradictions I have not been able to reconcile yet. But those have hardly caused me to give up the forgiveness of God I have received. The bedrock of saving faith is knowing that God has forgiven your sin through Christ. The person who is resting securely on that rock can not be easily moved by minor issues. They can be troublesome to less firmly grounded believers and truth seekers though for sure.
R
Yep, lol. I learned life's too short. Don't waste another second of your valuable time waiting for a misguided pastor to finish wasting your time. Hit the door!
This is true. I wish churches taught 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Most are consumed with meaningless, misguided doctrines, or beating you over the head how evangelism is the sole purpose the Christians exists and so that's all they talk about.
Okay, we got a couple of problems here. If, and I say if, a pastor teaching wrong doctrine is categorically a sin and can not just be innocent error or a lack of knowledge the Biblical counsel for dealing with the sin of an elder is to cut to the chase and reprove them before everybody:
20 "But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning."-1 Timothy 5:20
I attended a church where the pastor's double life of adultery was found out. The men met in a special Saturday morning meeting and the men that were looked up to as leaders in the church were sure the proper course of action was to do what they did when the pastor before this one was committing adultery with the married women in his counseling sessions--don't talk about it (which left everybody gossiping about it because they were not told the whole story--for years). I challenged them with the scripture above. Didn't go over well as you can guess. I could sense a definite problem with pride hindering them from acknowledging the truth. I didn't make an issue out of it. I knew they did they not have the humility to acknowledge what the scriptures actually said on how to handle the situation.
Sounds good but bad teaching is not categorically a sin like, for example, your pastor or elder sleeping with the married women of the congregation, so hit the door and don't look back. If your pastor is actually living in sin that is when you stand up and confront him and make him leave or change.
This is true. I wish churches taught 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Most are consumed with meaningless, misguided doctrines, or beating you over the head how evangelism is the sole purpose the Christians exists and so that's all they talk about.
Okay, we got a couple of problems here. If, and I say if, a pastor teaching wrong doctrine is categorically a sin and can not just be innocent error or a lack of knowledge the Biblical counsel for dealing with the sin of an elder is to cut to the chase and reprove them before everybody:
20 "But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning."-1 Timothy 5:20
I attended a church where the pastor's double life of adultery was found out. The men met in a special Saturday morning meeting and the men that were looked up to as leaders in the church were sure the proper course of action was to do what they did when the pastor before this one was committing adultery with the married women in his counseling sessions--don't talk about it (which left everybody gossiping about it because they were not told the whole story--for years). I challenged them with the scripture above. Didn't go over well as you can guess. I could sense a definite problem with pride hindering them from acknowledging the truth. I didn't make an issue out of it. I knew they did they not have the humility to acknowledge what the scriptures actually said on how to handle the situation.
Sounds good but bad teaching is not categorically a sin like, for example, your pastor or elder sleeping with the married women of the congregation, so hit the door and don't look back. If your pastor is actually living in sin that is when you stand up and confront him and make him leave or change.
