Speaking in tongues
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Scripture exhorts us to pray. The normal (but not exclusive) method of prayer is speech... to God. Scripture does not limit prayer to "expressing needs".
You don't know what I think prayer is, because I have not stated so. You have stated what you think prayer is, and I think your view is extremely narrow.
You don't know what I think prayer is, because I have not stated so. You have stated what you think prayer is, and I think your view is extremely narrow.
Do people with no ability to speak have a chance in the kingdom of God or is it only for the people who can speak therefore 'pray'?
John 16: 23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.
What is Jesus saying here, is He asking them to speak?the word 'ask' as used here doesn't mean speak but 'need'. In that day, the Father will fulfill all their needs. Not that the disciples had not been asking as in speaking with Him.
John 16: 23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.
What is Jesus saying here, is He asking them to speak?the word 'ask' as used here doesn't mean speak but 'need'. In that day, the Father will fulfill all their needs. Not that the disciples had not been asking as in speaking with Him.
It seems that we're talking past each other. Nowhere have I asserted or suggested that people without the physical ability to speak are therefore unable to pray.
Further, I would not assert that all "speaking" is vocal. However, as I stated previously, that is the normal method of communicating, and I am quite certain that is what Jesus had in mind when He taught the disciples to pray. It doesn't preclude whispering, speaking in one's mind, writing, or other expression. It is however, much greater than simply "asking" or "needing". For example, what part of "Hallowed is Your Name" an expression of need?
Do you ever just talk to God, without any particular need in mind? Do you ever share your thoughts about things with Him? Do you ever simply thank Him for some blessing? If not, I would submit that your relationship with Him is missing some wonderful facets.
Further, I would not assert that all "speaking" is vocal. However, as I stated previously, that is the normal method of communicating, and I am quite certain that is what Jesus had in mind when He taught the disciples to pray. It doesn't preclude whispering, speaking in one's mind, writing, or other expression. It is however, much greater than simply "asking" or "needing". For example, what part of "Hallowed is Your Name" an expression of need?
Do you ever just talk to God, without any particular need in mind? Do you ever share your thoughts about things with Him? Do you ever simply thank Him for some blessing? If not, I would submit that your relationship with Him is missing some wonderful facets.
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I scrolled back. That is the one downside of setting someone to our ignore list. Their posts don't appear if someone responds to them.
Candles is speaking to the Gabriel2020 person that called her daughter of the Devil. Not only is that post where they sought to offend and violate the personal attack rule still visible but apparently Gabe is still a member.
In future if you want to read 2020 just scroll to the bottom of the page and click the message there that allows you to read those set to ignore. That's how I could answer your question.
Candles is speaking to the Gabriel2020 person that called her daughter of the Devil. Not only is that post where they sought to offend and violate the personal attack rule still visible but apparently Gabe is still a member.
In future if you want to read 2020 just scroll to the bottom of the page and click the message there that allows you to read those set to ignore. That's how I could answer your question.
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1 Corinthians 13:1
If (though) I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
We know and would all agree, I'm certain, that tongues means languages. 1 Corinthians 13:1 uses the term tongues in the plural sense .. as in more than one.
Mankind speaks/communicates in many languages. Can we also conclude then that their is more than one angelic language as well ?
Notice that Paul said ... "the tongues of men or of angels" ... both referenced plural. Couldn't I use the same reasoning that the angelic language proponents use today (to prove the existence of such) to also declare that the Seraphims, the Cheribums and/or even the Archangels all speak a language different from one another in heaven ?
Seriously people ... does this make sense or sound like something God would do ? Our God, Who is not the author of confusion ?
If (though) I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
We know and would all agree, I'm certain, that tongues means languages. 1 Corinthians 13:1 uses the term tongues in the plural sense .. as in more than one.
Mankind speaks/communicates in many languages. Can we also conclude then that their is more than one angelic language as well ?
Notice that Paul said ... "the tongues of men or of angels" ... both referenced plural. Couldn't I use the same reasoning that the angelic language proponents use today (to prove the existence of such) to also declare that the Seraphims, the Cheribums and/or even the Archangels all speak a language different from one another in heaven ?
Seriously people ... does this make sense or sound like something God would do ? Our God, Who is not the author of confusion ?
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Gabriel 2020 was who I quoted. It should have appeared in my reply.
Here we have it. Post #957. I bolded his remarks to make it easy to differentiate. I don't know what god he's talking about but whatever gives his tongue such license is definitely not the one in our Bibles.
Gabriel2020 said:
Salvation is not a gift, the holy spirit is a gift. what are you talking about? did you mean to put it that way or not?
If you want to pester Christians on a forum at least spend the time to learn what the Bible says about the subject you want to tear apart thinking you're upsetting folks.
Gabriel2020 said:
Amen.he promised a lot of things to us. Give him a reason to break those promises.,and he will.
Well, I think it just a matter of time before the door closes on you here.
Here we have it. Post #957. I bolded his remarks to make it easy to differentiate. I don't know what god he's talking about but whatever gives his tongue such license is definitely not the one in our Bibles.
Gabriel2020 said:
Salvation is not a gift, the holy spirit is a gift. what are you talking about? did you mean to put it that way or not?
If you want to pester Christians on a forum at least spend the time to learn what the Bible says about the subject you want to tear apart thinking you're upsetting folks.
Gabriel2020 said:
Amen.he promised a lot of things to us. Give him a reason to break those promises.,and he will.
Well, I think it just a matter of time before the door closes on you here.
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In the latter passage you quote, it is clearly explained that prophecy is not the same as tongues, yet you keep insisting that speaking in tongues is prophesying.
The sign is against those who refuse prophecy .I t as the word of God (no outward sign to them) is for those who will beleive prophecy.
B No such thing as a sign gift to confirm anything. We walk by faith the unsen .The Kingdom of God not of this world does not come by observing signs. The non converted Jew required a sign before they world believe. Jesus called them kind of sihn sekers a evil generation (non converted men ) no faith coming from prophecy (scripture)
Tongues, is God speaking prophecy as the inspired word of God in other languages other than Hebrews alone. It was a sign against the unbelieving Jew that would not hear prophecy. And encouraging words to those who did believe prophecy alone(no oral traditions of men )
Not sure what comments you are speaking of ?
Yes they are the same thing . It is one of those things of the god of this world separating what God calls one making it more than one and what God calls separate the father of lies calls it one .
Tongues. God speaking prophecy (the word of God) in other languages other than that of Hebrew alone is a picture of God with stammering lips (mocking lips) mocking the Jews who refuses to hear the word of God, prophecy. It benefited the hearers of prophecy but a sign against those who again refused to hear the word of God, prophecy.
Paul wrote first apostles, simply those who are sent to bring prophecy). Secondly recognized as prophets .
God sends, defining the Greek word apostle with no other meaning added (sent ones) the prophets, with prophecy to help administration (administer the gospel) with various kinds languages. No longer Hebrew alone.
We should be careful like with the word apostle ….words have meaning attached to them .When men add new meaning it can change the authors intent and therefore how we can hear Him and not men .
The sign is against those who refuse prophecy .I t as the word of God (no outward sign to them) is for those who will beleive prophecy.
B No such thing as a sign gift to confirm anything. We walk by faith the unsen .The Kingdom of God not of this world does not come by observing signs. The non converted Jew required a sign before they world believe. Jesus called them kind of sihn sekers a evil generation (non converted men ) no faith coming from prophecy (scripture)
Tongues, is God speaking prophecy as the inspired word of God in other languages other than Hebrews alone. It was a sign against the unbelieving Jew that would not hear prophecy. And encouraging words to those who did believe prophecy alone(no oral traditions of men )
Not sure what comments you are speaking of ?
Yes they are the same thing . It is one of those things of the god of this world separating what God calls one making it more than one and what God calls separate the father of lies calls it one .
Tongues. God speaking prophecy (the word of God) in other languages other than that of Hebrew alone is a picture of God with stammering lips (mocking lips) mocking the Jews who refuses to hear the word of God, prophecy. It benefited the hearers of prophecy but a sign against those who again refused to hear the word of God, prophecy.
Paul wrote first apostles, simply those who are sent to bring prophecy). Secondly recognized as prophets .
God sends, defining the Greek word apostle with no other meaning added (sent ones) the prophets, with prophecy to help administration (administer the gospel) with various kinds languages. No longer Hebrew alone.
We should be careful like with the word apostle ….words have meaning attached to them .When men add new meaning it can change the authors intent and therefore how we can hear Him and not men .
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It seems that we're talking past each other. Nowhere have I asserted or suggested that people without the physical ability to speak are therefore unable to pray.
Further, I would not assert that all "speaking" is vocal. However, as I stated previously, that is the normal method of communicating, and I am quite certain that is what Jesus had in mind when He taught the disciples to pray. It doesn't preclude whispering, speaking in one's mind, writing, or other expression. It is however, much greater than simply "asking" or "needing". For example, what part of "Hallowed is Your Name" an expression of need?
Do you ever just talk to God, without any particular need in mind? Do you ever share your thoughts about things with Him? Do you ever simply thank Him for some blessing? If not, I would submit that your relationship with Him is missing some wonderful facets.
Further, I would not assert that all "speaking" is vocal. However, as I stated previously, that is the normal method of communicating, and I am quite certain that is what Jesus had in mind when He taught the disciples to pray. It doesn't preclude whispering, speaking in one's mind, writing, or other expression. It is however, much greater than simply "asking" or "needing". For example, what part of "Hallowed is Your Name" an expression of need?
Do you ever just talk to God, without any particular need in mind? Do you ever share your thoughts about things with Him? Do you ever simply thank Him for some blessing? If not, I would submit that your relationship with Him is missing some wonderful facets.
Jer 24: 7 I will give them a heart to know Me, that Iam the LORD. They will be My people, and I will betheir God, for they will return to Me with all their heart.
Hebrews 8:10
This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people.
Jer 31:33 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD, I will put My law in their minds and write iton their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.
My question again- where does speaking incomprehensible words come in this kind of arrangement where a brother can't tell another "know the Lord" because in this new covenant, God Himself teaches our hearts and fulfills our 'needs'.
When i say these things ceased best believe me.
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We wouldn't talk to our brother in tongues. Tongues, the heavenly language, is God's gift whereby we can communicate with Him in private (an outpouring of the heart), or God can talk to a congregation through an interpreter.
Just to add, speaking against God's spirit is to speak against the Holy God.
Just to add, speaking against God's spirit is to speak against the Holy God.
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How many times has this blasphemy card been played by you and others ? Nobody here is speaking against the Holy Spirit. You claim your tongue speaking to be a heavenly language. I don't believe your claim. How many languages are there in heaven ? Remember .. Paul said .. "the tongues (languages) of angels". Either Paul was speaking hyperbole to make a point or the various types of angels in heaven all speak a language different from one another. Does this make sense to you ?
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Yes, speaking against God's Spirit is to speak against the Holy God. It the one reason why God mocked those with stammering lips as a sign against those who refused to hear prophecy and therefore making the word of God to none effect through the oral traditions of men.
Matthew 15:6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mark 7:13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye
God 's speaks in a language that people can understand and expects us to do the same. Because his word is alive and able to judge our intents he knows our thoughts before they leave our lips .He looks on the inside we look to the flesh
Matthew 15:6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mark 7:13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye
God 's speaks in a language that people can understand and expects us to do the same. Because his word is alive and able to judge our intents he knows our thoughts before they leave our lips .He looks on the inside we look to the flesh
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This type of reasoning creates a serious problem for tongues advocates today. And here's why.
Some of us believe that tongues ceased at the end of the apostolic era. Others, like yourself contend that tongues won't cease until we meet Christ "face to face" .. because you claim that Jesus is the "perfect (completeness) to come" .. and not His written Word.
In either scenario though, it remains true that in the presence of Jesus Christ our Lord, tongues will no longer be. So why are they present in heaven now, if what you claim is true ?
Some of us believe that tongues ceased at the end of the apostolic era. Others, like yourself contend that tongues won't cease until we meet Christ "face to face" .. because you claim that Jesus is the "perfect (completeness) to come" .. and not His written Word.
In either scenario though, it remains true that in the presence of Jesus Christ our Lord, tongues will no longer be. So why are they present in heaven now, if what you claim is true ?