Not By Works

[NoNameMcgee]

I just noticed this too:

Heb. 12:8 (HCSB)
8 But if you are without discipline—which all receive—then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

NOTICE, IT SAYS ALL, that verse can put the False Doctrine, of WE NEVER SIN, out of business.

amen
many verses point to this truth

but i fully agree this verse debunks those who believe in mans doctrine of sinless perfection

 

[justpassinthrough]

the ridiculous semantics of the self righteous boil down to


"do these works in order to be saved... and if you do not do all (or any of) these things you are not saved ....oh and also believe in Jesus to qualify for this job in the first place"


but those who know the truth will say

"what we do that is good, is of God and we examine ourself if we walk according to the spirit out of LOVE for Him who first loved us.... my hope rests entirely on Jesus Christ"


one of these -> salvation is a payment or a reward and not a free gift.... good works will earn this reward and belief in Jesus is a prerequisite (Jesus gets a fraction of the credit)

the other -> salvation is a free gift... good works are done out of love for Him who made us new and continues to work in us.... the ONLY hope we have for salvation... Jesus Christ (Jesus gets ALL of the credit)

Does a person have to obey the Gospel to be saved?

1. Yes a person must obey the Gospel to be saved.
2. No a person does not need to obey the Gospel to be saved.

JPT

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Does a person have to obey the Gospel to be saved?

1. Yes a person must obey the Gospel to be saved.
2. No a person does not need to obey the Gospel to be saved.

JPT

what do you even believe "the gospel" is jpt?

 

[TruthTalk]

No. You plainly attacked me with your derogatory and demeaning post, because I stated that obedience is a requirement of salvation.

Please stop resisting the truth.

Only those who obey the truth will be saved.



JPT

I am joyfully putting you and your lies on "ignore" the land where all is peaceful.

tired of your nonsense and your lies, - understand now.

 

[TruthTalk]

What is the Gospel TT?

Hi PS, seriously? You may now join your partner in the "Land of Ignore" enjoy, I know I will.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

what do you even believe "the gospel" is jpt?

welp you went silent


here

let me help you

2098. euaggelion ►

Strong's Concordance

euaggelion: good news​

Original Word: εὐαγγέλιον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: euaggelion
Phonetic Spelling: (yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on)
Short Definition: the good news, the gospel
Definition: the good news of the coming of the Messiah, the gospel; the gen. after it expresses sometimes the giver (God), sometimes the subject (the Messiah, etc.), sometimes the human transmitter (an apostle).


you obey the gospel BY believing the good news....

john 6
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.​

 

[BillG]

Sanctification is dual in usage.....

a. SANCTIFIED positionally and eternally in Christ at the moment of belief
b. Sanctified in our daily life which is a process of growth and maturity, subject to successes and failures and will be rewarded accordingly (misthos-->pay or wages<--reward)

Is that not sanctification?
Our daily walk

I didnt understand his question to me.

So do you need to be ultimately sanctified in order to be saved?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Is that not sanctification?
Our daily walk

I didnt understand his question to me.

when i was in sinless perfection

youre not sanctified unless you sin no more

hes probably asking

"if you still sin can you be saved"

or something along those lines

 

[TruthTalk]

It is nice to not have to deal with those who twist, embellish, add to, or change what I say.......sometimes ignorance is bliss......thankful for the ignore button......very rare for me to use it, but every now and then.....it is warranted.....

Hi Decon, when insults and nonstop false statements are made against me without any reconciliation, then I need to put a stop to this nonsense. Which is what I have told two posters here today. Peace be unto them.

 

[theanointedsinner]

Now we can all agree, that to ADD TO THE WORD OF GOD is WRONG.


Proverbs 30:6 (NCV)
6 Do not add to his words, or he will correct you and prove you are a liar.


You added a verse without Quoting that it was from JAMES, and I think you did deliberately to imply that it belonged with Titus 3:5.

Not only is it wrong to do that, but you have the WRONG INTERPRETATION of the Book of JAMES.

James is NOT SAYING that WORKS are a NECESSARY PART SALVATION, JAMES is clearly implying THAT IF YOU WERE SAVED FOR REAL, THE MOMENT SAVING FAITH ENTERED INTO YOUR HEART, GOD'S LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO YOU HEART AT THAT MOMENT, Rom. 5:5, WILL PRODUCE A DESIRE TO LOVE GOD WITH LOVING OBEDIENCE. That happens, way after we WERE SAVED in the beginning of our Faith, and is the LIVING FAITH, compared to the DEAD FAITH, that produces NO LOVE FOR GOD.

You cannot use that verse AS PART OF SALVATION, as it Happens way AFTER WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE and MERCY because of WHAT JESUS DID ON THE CROSS. IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE, not Part of SALVATION.

If you can agree, then we are in agreement.

thank you for your help on clarifying,
James 2:17 - faith without works is dead

and thank you for clarifying that James was way after we are saved by grace, and I should be thankful for God to use even our weakness for his glory.

thank you
and amen

 

[BillG]

when i was in sinless perfection

youre not sanctified unless you sin no more

hes probably asking

"if you still sin can you be saved"

or something along those lines

That was one of my thoughts.

"Do we need to be ultimately sanctfied to be saved? Was the question so my other thought was.

The other was that we are ultimately sanctfied (positionally through faith, which if memory serves me he said to TT that he agrees with that) but as he believes we can lose salvation, therefore reject our faith or do not do the right things (like water baptism, or die with unforgivness in our hearts) then we lose salvation.

So if I said yes then I anticipated (correctly or incorrectly) that if I said yes then we get into OSAS/ES, as he does not believe in ES.

That's why I asked the question.

I can't see an answer yet, but he will reply when he gets a chance, he normally does respond.

 

[theanointedsinner]

Does a person have to obey the Gospel to be saved?

1. Yes a person must obey the Gospel to be saved.
2. No a person does not need to obey the Gospel to be saved.

JPT

for God (Psalms 46:10)
so love the world (Jesus love others with a selfless love, 1 Cor 13)
that he gave his one and only son (with humility and sacrificial obedience, Phil 2)
that whoever believes in him (Romans 10:17) ,
shall not perish (Romans 6:24) but have eternal life (1 John 5:11)

amplified version of John 3:16

may the gospel be obeyed

 

[TruthTalk]

"Do we need to be ultimately sanctfied to be saved? Was the question so my other thought was.

The other was that we are ultimately sanctfied (positionally through faith, which if memory serves me he said to TT that he agrees with that) but as he believes we can lose salvation, therefore reject our faith or do not do the right things (like water baptism, or die with unforgivness in our hearts) then we lose salvation.

So if I said yes then I anticipated (correctly or incorrectly) that if I said yes then we get into OSAS/ES, as he does not believe in ES.

That's why I asked the question.

I can't see an answer yet, but he will reply when he gets a chance, he normally does respond.

Hi BllG, we are sanctified the moment we are saved, progressive sanctification is our daily walk with Jesus and ultimate sanctification is when we are in heaven with our savior. 1,2 &3. I learned this in adult Sunday school 40 years ago.

Did you really say that, "I believe we can "lose our salvation?" in your post above?

Too much false testimony lately

 

[BillG]

thank you for your help on clarifying,
James 2:17 - faith without works is dead

and thank you for clarifying that James was way after we are saved by grace, and I should be thankful for God to use even our weakness for his glory.

thank you
and amen

I think of it this way.

People do not always live according to what they say they believe, but they will live according to what they believe.

It is what we do that shows what we really believe no matter what we say believe.
If we look at our actions that will reveal what we actually believe.

I think this is what James is pressing in on.

You can tell me and others what you say you believe, so let's see the evidence.
If you really have genuine faith in Jesus then it will be evidenced in your life.
If not then your words of having faith are just that, words only.

To get a full understanding of James 2 we need to read the whole chapter.
Not just 14-26.

 

[BillG]

Hi BllG, we are sanctified the moment we are saved, progressive sanctification is our daily walk with Jesus and ultimate sanctification is when we are in heaven with our savior. 1,2 &3. I learned this in adult Sunday school 40 years ago.

Did you really say that, "I believe we can "lose our salvation?" in your post above?

Too much false testimony lately

TT my friend.

You have not got my post.

I posted my thoughts concerning the question BH asked me to which NNM responded to.

"Do we ultimately have to be sanctfied? Was the question to me to which NNM responded, thinking it may be a question asked concerning sinless perfection.

I have to be honest TT but you seem to question a lot of what you think I'm saying and I have no idea why.

Please go back over the last few pages.
I have said we were sanctified the moment we were saved.
I have said sanctification is a process, a daily walk. In fact a few posts back I said to DC do you mean sanctified daily or is it sanctification daily?

Where did I say we can lose salvation?
I didn't.

I said I anticipated that if I answered "Do we need to by do ultimately sanctified? the question asked to ME and I said yes (which to me happened when were saved) then the response would be "If we lose our salvation then we are no longer ultimately sanctified"

Therefore ES is not correct, and it was not an argument I wanted to get in.

Sorry TT but I'm saddened that you believe I said that and believe that.

I find myself thinking that you question me a lot.
Yet can't seem to see what I'm saying and by believe.

What is it about me you do not trust?
Cards on the table.

I think it goes back to a over a year ago.
About Feb 17.

I had let it go but I'm not sure you have.
Sorry to bring it up but it is starting to bug me now.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Do you all realize what you're becoming? You angry one's, the offensive one's who clearly delight in that pastime here. Do you realize what you're becoming in a thread that talks about saving yourselves from the sin filled personalities you display defending one truth?

Seriously people!
Live your knowledge of the scriptures. Share what you think. Don't become something a Christian is not to be because you meet someone who doesn't agree.
Do we look like we live peace in Christ when we act like this defending what he died to save us from and for?

 

[benhur]

Thank you for the clarification.

Isaiah42:8
"I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

That may have been in OT times, but by NT times God is willing to give glory even to us.

If you are a child of God and you have God indwelling in you, you think some of His glory would not be a part of you?

 

[TruthTalk]

That may have been in OT times, but by NT times God is willing to give glory even to us.

If you are a child of God and you have God indwelling in you, you think some of His glory would not be a part of you?

No I do not, but thank you. does humility count where glory is concerned

 

[benhur]

What you call works, I refer to as practical sanctification becoming mature in Christ, because we are saved by grace "Not By Works"

Ephesians4:13

until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."​

Can practical sanctification be a life-long endeavor, as we mature in Christ?

 

[TruthTalk]

TT my friend.

You have not got my post.

I posted my thoughts concerning the question BH asked me to which NNM responded to.

"Do we ultimately have to be sanctfied? Was the question to me to which NNM responded, thinking it may be a question asked concerning sinless perfection.

I have to be honest TT but you seem to question a lot of what you think I'm saying and I have no idea why.

Please go back over the last few pages.
I have said we were sanctified the moment we were saved.
I have said sanctification is a process, a daily walk. In fact a few posts back I said to DC do you mean sanctified daily or is it sanctification daily?

Where did I say we can lose salvation?
I didn't.

I said I anticipated that if I answered "Do we need to by do ultimately sanctified? the question asked to ME and I said yes (which to me happened when were saved) then the response would be "If we lose our salvation then we are no longer ultimately sanctified"

Therefore ES is not correct, and it was not an argument I wanted to get in.

Sorry TT but I'm saddened that you believe I said that and believe that.

I find myself thinking that you question me a lot.
Yet can't seem to see what I'm saying and by believe.

What is it about me you do not trust?
Cards on the table.

I think it goes back to a over a year ago.
About Feb 17.

I had let it go but I'm not sure you have.
Sorry to bring it up but it is starting to bug me now.

I'm not even sure what questions you are referring to and sorry if I miss read your post. Again what happened on Feb 17 WOW. I'm curious why you feel the way you do about me and believe me I'm not going to question you bout anything.

God bless