Obedience, Oh No!

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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I think you need to have counsel with your heart when that happens to try to understand what you are trying to accomplish by hating and being resentful. In other words, instead of trying to obey "DO NOT HATE!" admit your hatred/resentment, defend it if necessary, and then with a conscience towards GOD ask yourself "What does this accomplish?" You will probably hear your heart say, "I'm hurt". The holy spirit will be there to help you. Be honest.
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I already know what I am trying to accomplish by hating and being resentful. I'm trying to murder them! And it's even worse than that - I'm trying to hide my murder just like Cain did! But it's not very successful, because then the person will eventually say: hey, are you mad at me...? And I'll say: no, I'm not mad. So I lie about having been mad because deep down I know it's wrong. But I'm supposed to walk in truth and instead I just walked in deceitfulness and didn't admit the truth that I was mad. Yet I say I walk in the light but am walking in darkness. And I've seen that if I go on in that manner, it becomes to where I get hardened to it and can't see it very clearly.

And yes, it's usually because I'm hurt by the way they treated me. And I have the spirit on hurt feelings too - they are hurt pride. A pride that demands and thinks it has the right to be treated well and with honor. But that's sickening. No man owes me any honor. I think too highly of myself - a little Napolean.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I hope you don't interpret my words when I say we are not under the law of Moses to mean that we are not under law at all. We are under law to Christ.
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So I have to follow the law of Christ/the law of the Spirit/the spirit of the word.

I agree.

I'm trying to determine HOW I follow that law. Trying hard to follow the law hasn't gotten me there.
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
So I have to follow the law of Christ/the law of the Spirit/the spirit of the word.

I agree.

I'm trying to determine HOW I follow that law. Trying hard to follow the law hasn't gotten me there.
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Wherever I'm at I always try to examine everything against " Am I treating others like I would like to be treated". Also, if the opportunity presents itself I try to act in a way that makes their life better somehow.
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
So I have to follow the law of Christ/the law of the Spirit/the spirit of the word.

I agree.

I'm trying to determine HOW I follow that law. Trying hard to follow the law hasn't gotten me there.
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In fact, trying hard to follow it and do it (not murder) not only didn't work, but the harder I tried, the worse I got regarding it. Which led to times of depression that I was so bad even though I didn't want to be.
 
SpoonJuly said:
Again you refer to my religion and presume you know what is central to that religion.
As I stated before, I do not have a religion. I do not follow a religion. I am a child of God. I follow the commandments and teachings of Jesus.
I never said the Pharisees were trying to keep the Law.
What I said was that the Pharisees were constantly dogging Jesus looking for Him to violate the Law that they themselves were not keeping.
That is why I have compared some today to the Pharisees
They are teaching we must keep the Law when they do not keep it themselves.
I have tried as best as I can to explain what I believe, but you seem to just be looking for a way do disagree.
Where have I been dishonest and not open in what I believe?
And yes, it is a waste of time with some here. They do not discuss, just preach.
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You did say you believed it was a sin not to bring a goat to the Pharisees if I believed we should honor God with obedience to His Laws. You somehow overlooked that part in your reply.

I guess you aren't interested in discussing. That's OK.
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
In fact, trying hard to follow it and do it (not murder) not only didn't work, but the harder I tried, the worse I got regarding it. Which led to times of depression that I was so bad even though I didn't want to be.
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And I didn't want very much to obey and not murder BECAUSE I thought I would go to hell - I KNEW I was forgiven. I had the Spirit and knew Him. I wanted to obey because I wanted to be good, because I didn't WANT to keep murdering. So I just kept trying harder and harder. And I was miserable about it all.
 
And then....eureka!
I had started out good. I trusted Jesus and received the Holy Spirit and began to learn by that Spirit.
But somewhere along the line, I began trying very hard to finish what had all begun by my receiving the Holy Spirit and just trusting, and somehow began to think... I could finish it in the flesh!! By hard efforts!
 
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So...I just returned to trust (faith). I gave up on hard efforts and just waited for Him to fix my heart. And it WORKED! Very quickly I began to see great victories over my murdering/resenting/anger!
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
So try really hard to remember what God has done for me and that gratefulness will make me not murder in anger and resentment in my heart?
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I was playing off your words when I said 'try really really hard', but, yes, that's it, the key to being able to forgive and not hold anger and grudges towards those who sin against us is to recognize how unworthy we ourselves are, yet have been forgiven by God.

"her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little."- Luke 7:47

People who love are keenly aware of the debt of sin they themselves have been forgiven. The more we have been forgiven, or the more aware we are of what we have been forgiven, the greater our love for Jesus, and thus our love towards others, will be. That's why I said the answer is to love God.
 
I don't know how I got so sideways but I know I'm not the only one it happened to. A whole church fell into the same mistake I did. The church at Galatia!
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I hope you don't interpret my words when I say we are not under the law of Moses to mean that we are not under law at all. We are under law to Christ.
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Would that be 'love your neighbor as yourself', or 'love your neighbor as yourself'?
 
So He didn't make me less lawabiding. When I returned to trust and left hard working to try to keep the law, He MADE ME LAWABIDING IN MY HEART! And I found out that it really IS through trust that I am made to walk righteously and be lawabiding. Through trust (faith), we uphold the law!
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead said:
That translation has added words that are not there and confuses the meaning. The Greek literally says "the ministry of death in letters carved in stone" and then says at the end of the sentence that it was made void/useless/obsolete (transitory in your translation).
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We know it can't mean obedience to the 10 Commandments has been made void. We know that because Paul said faith fulfills and upholds the law of Moses, citing several of those laws by name in Romans 13:9-10. Elsewhere in Romans we learn that what we are not under anymore is the condemnation of the law of Moses. IOW, the ministry of death of the 10 Commandments is of no effect for the person who trusts in Christ for forgiveness for transgressing the 10 Commandments. That ministry of the law ceases for the person who believes in Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
 
Stunnedbygrace said:
So He didn't make me less lawabiding. When I returned to trust and left hard working to try to keep the law, He MADE ME LAWABIDING IN MY HEART! And I found out that it really IS through trust that I am made to walk righteously and be lawabiding. Through trust (faith), we uphold the law!
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Or to put it another way, if we abide (remain in trust) we do not sin!
 
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Stunnedbygrace said:
So He didn't make me less lawabiding. When I returned to trust and left hard working to try to keep the law, He MADE ME LAWABIDING IN MY HEART! And I found out that it really IS through trust that I am made to walk righteously and be lawabiding. Through trust (faith), we uphold the law!
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That's how it works for me. Some days I know I have a bad attitude and I'm loaded for bear. By faith I remember that it's not the people around me causing me to be unsettled, angry, and bitter, or whatever. It's me. And I pray to God to release the spirits that are harassing me and for the love and comfort and presence of his Holy Spirit to fill my soul. Then he comes in like a flood and delivers me from the harassing spirits and my own flesh that push and tempt me to lash out at people around me and criticize and judge them for the things they do that are (supposedly) making me angry and bitter and unhappy. Paul refers to this as the new way to serve God--the way of the Spirit (Romans 7:6). The way that actually works.
 
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Stunnedbygrace said:
I'm trying to determine HOW I follow that law. Trying hard to follow the law hasn't gotten me there.
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Amen.

The New Covenant is all about the 'how', not about the 'what'.

Faith in Christ is the New Way to fulfill the same law that we couldn't keep while under the condemnation of the old covenant.
 
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Ralph- said:
That's how it works for me. Some days I know I have a bad attitude and I'm loaded for bear. By faith I remember that it's not the people around me causing me to be unsettled, angry, and bitter, or whatever. It's me. And I pray to God to release the spirits that are harassing me and for the love and comfort and presence of his Holy Spirit to fill my soul. Then he comes in like a flood and delivers me from the harassing spirits and my own flesh that push and tempt me to lash out at people around me and criticize and judge them for the things they do that are (supposedly) making me angry and bitter and unhappy. Paul refers to this as the new way to serve God--the way of the Spirit (Romans 7:6). The way that actually works.
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You prayed for what you lacked. You didn't work hard, you just asked for what you needed and He supplied it.
You saw you were poor in spirit and so you asked for what you needed.
New Living Translation
"God blesses those who are poor and realize their need for him, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
 
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Stunnedbygrace said:
You prayed for what you lacked. You didn't work hard, you just asked for what you needed and He supplied it.
You saw you were poor in spirit and so you asked for what you needed.
New Living Translation
"God blesses those who are poor and realize their need for him, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
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And may I add....

"this is what the high and exalted One says-- he who lives forever, whose name is holy: "I live in a high and holy place, but also with the one who is contrite and lowly in spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and to revive the heart of the contrite. "-Isaiah 57:15
 
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