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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I see.
So she could have continued in adultery and still be saved?
Total and complete nonsense.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
- those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Do you understand what this phrase means; will not inherit the kingdom of God?
JPT
Paul teaches the Church at Galatia, this very important truth.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21
- those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Do you understand what Paul is warning these born again Christians about?
Do you understand what "will not inherit the kingdom of God means"?
JPT
You have serious issues if you think in any way, shape or form that this proves that Demas or Titus lost their salvation....NOTHING in the text leads one to believe anything other than they forsook Paul.....
What about the 70 that were rejoicing in the power over the devils and demons....JESUS said to rejoice because their names were written in heaven....A Little later and a hard saying they walked away....did they lose...NO.....people who are saved do this all the time...no real maturity and they get offended because of Lil Sista Suzie or Brother Billy Bob did not shake their hand or did not eat their chili at the pot luck and or the preacher lays a truth bare that offends them and they quit coming to church...this does not mean they lost their salvation and or quit believing....believers lose their witness and or walk all the time due to worldliness and or some tragic occurance like the death of a child or divorce etc....yet they remain as saved as the day they believed....
What a weak god (with a small g) that some of you serve......serious....he can save you when you are totally lost and dead in sin, but cannot keep you saved even though his promises, power and word teaches emphatically the security of the believer........wow....
What about the 70 that were rejoicing in the power over the devils and demons....JESUS said to rejoice because their names were written in heaven....A Little later and a hard saying they walked away....did they lose...NO.....people who are saved do this all the time...no real maturity and they get offended because of Lil Sista Suzie or Brother Billy Bob did not shake their hand or did not eat their chili at the pot luck and or the preacher lays a truth bare that offends them and they quit coming to church...this does not mean they lost their salvation and or quit believing....believers lose their witness and or walk all the time due to worldliness and or some tragic occurance like the death of a child or divorce etc....yet they remain as saved as the day they believed....
What a weak god (with a small g) that some of you serve......serious....he can save you when you are totally lost and dead in sin, but cannot keep you saved even though his promises, power and word teaches emphatically the security of the believer........wow....
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Oh...wow...this gave me a peek into your mind...
The contextual support, in my opinion is right there along with the verse.
12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. NIV
12 Because lawlessness is increased, [f]most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
NASB
To me, there must be something you would be standing firm on/in. And to me, that thing is faith and walking in the Spirit so that your own love does not grow cold.
Also, it doesn't make sense to me that the verse would be saying: but the one who survives will survive.
Jonah, Noah and Rahab were physically preserved. But I also believe they are saved through their faith. But I can give a few examples of faith preserving men too.
The testing of our faith produces endurance (and the one who endures to the end will be saved.)
If we are faithful until death we receive the crown of life.
Our faith overcomes the world.
It was by faith that Rahab did not perish.
We are those who have faith to the preserving of our soul.
We are Christs house if we hold fast our faith until the end.
PAul said he'd run his race, he'd kept the faith.
These all talk of enduring in faith till the end, and having faith to the preserving of our souls, and the one who stands firm in faith/endures being saved.
Holding fast my faith is not a work of the flesh or a work of the law. It is through faith that I am saved.
Cool your jets, dcon.
Where did I say anything about anyone losing salvation? I believe that salvation is permanent.
My point was that some people seem to think that a "truly" saved Christian cannot or will not lose his faith. That if he did, it proves he was never saved in the first place. I don't think that's true.
I think that at times truly saved Christians can lose their faith. It does not mean they will not be saved.
Where did I say anything about anyone losing salvation? I believe that salvation is permanent.
My point was that some people seem to think that a "truly" saved Christian cannot or will not lose his faith. That if he did, it proves he was never saved in the first place. I don't think that's true.
I think that at times truly saved Christians can lose their faith. It does not mean they will not be saved.
Those verses only affirm what I said, you failed to understand what I said.
Go and sin no more, is not to be taken literally of course. Only a fool would take that literally.
I never said sin has dominion over the Christian, I said we fight it so how is that dominion. Go figure
The third one "you must master it also affirms my point. You don't give yourself to sin, you fight it so you get better at fighting it until you master it in the grave.
So you have taken the truth that I proclaimed and twisted it to mean something I never said.
Go and sin no more, is not to be taken literally of course. Only a fool would take that literally.
I never said sin has dominion over the Christian, I said we fight it so how is that dominion. Go figure
The third one "you must master it also affirms my point. You don't give yourself to sin, you fight it so you get better at fighting it until you master it in the grave.
So you have taken the truth that I proclaimed and twisted it to mean something I never said.
The works are null and void as "good" without being complete in the Holy Spirit. They are the works of the Spirit. It is not the works we try to run around trying to accomplish to try to earn good works. Like the Spirit was planned to be in who God chose, the works were in the spirit. I could be wrong?...help.
What is EL? God?
What is EL? God?
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Cool your jets, dcon.
Where did I say anything about anyone losing salvation? I believe that salvation is permanent.
My point was that some people seem to think that a "truly" saved Christian cannot or will not lose his faith. That if he did, it proves he was never saved in the first place. I don't think that's true.
I think that at times truly saved Christians can lose their faith. It does not mean they will not be saved.
Where did I say anything about anyone losing salvation? I believe that salvation is permanent.
My point was that some people seem to think that a "truly" saved Christian cannot or will not lose his faith. That if he did, it proves he was never saved in the first place. I don't think that's true.
I think that at times truly saved Christians can lose their faith. It does not mean they will not be saved.
I know you respect what the Scripture actually say, so here is why we KNOW that is the truth, shrume.
John 10:26-30 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them [that inner personal, love Relelationship receiving Him as LORD and Master, and they follow Me. [ Striving to walk in obedience out of LOVE. ]
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”
Now that is the PRIMARY verse, but there is more. Notice HIS SHEEP,
Hear His Voice,
He KNOWS them PERSONALLY in LOVE, and we Know HIM Personally because God's Love was poured into our Hearts. ROM. 5:5
AND WE Follow HIM, in Obedience out of the LOVE he has Sown into our Hearts.
There, that is talking about Born Again Christians. It is not talking about those who THINK they know who He is, and acknowledge the Stories about are true, but NEVER have been Born Again. That only happens when in deep conviction, you come to HIM begging forgiveness, and RECEIVING HIM as your Personal LORD meaning MASTER out of LOVE FOR HIM. Yes, It is VERY REAL, and the Holy Spirit comes into your Heart, Pours GOD's LOVE directly into your heart, and births your Human Spirit into ETERNAL LIFE; while HE immerses us INTO the Spiritual BODY of Christ. No that is NOT Works Righteousness, IT IS ALL S WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
I am pretty Sure you know personal Testimony, and that is what HE did for me, the night of my third attempt at SUICIDE, when I finally surrendered to HIM out of Love.
Now Here is the rest of the PROOF.
First of all, you NEED to properly interpret the Parable of the SOWER. ONLY ONE TYPE OF SOIL IS A REAL CHRISTIAN THAT IS BORN AGAIN.
Mark 4:13-20(CSBBible)
13 Then he said to them: "Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand all of the parables?
14 The sower sows the word.
15 Some are like the word sown on the path. When they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word sown in them.
16 And others are like seed sown on rocky ground. When they hear the word, immediately they receive it with joy.
17 But they have no root; they are short-lived. When distress or persecution comes because of the word, they immediately fall away.
18 Others are like seed sown among thorns; these are the ones who hear the word,
19 but the worries of this age, the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
20 And those like seed sown on good ground hear the word, welcome it, and produce fruit thirty, sixty, and a hundred times what was sown."
You can see, ONLY THE LAST SOIL MENTIONED is a true Born Again Christian. The first type of soil is a stone cold Unbeliever, and the NEXT TWO are those that start off as Church going Pretend Christians, but fall away. Why do we put up with phony Christians in our Midst? BECAUSE OUR LORD WILL TAKE SOME, AS THEY ARE TAUGHT THE WORD, and bring some to become genuine Born Again Christians.
A TRULY BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN is one that: genuinely Came to Christ mourning and repenting over your utterly sinful life, genuinely letting HIM control your LIFE, having the Holy Spirit pouring GOD's LOVE directly into our HEARTS, Rom. 5:5, and LETTING HIM birth our HUMAN SPIRIT into ETERNAL LIFE.
Our Beliefs are only Born Again Christians are SAVED, while those without being born again, HE or SHE WERE NEVER SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE, he was only a Pretend Christian.
1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
2 John 1:1-2 (HCSB)
1 The Elder: To the elect lady and her children: I love all of you in the truth—and not only I, but also all who have come to know the truth—
2 because of the truth that remains in us and will be with us forever.
Now remember Here is our PRIMARY Scripture Verses.
John 10:26-30 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
{That certainly includes SELF.}
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 The Father and I are one.”
1 Peter 1:3-5 (NIV)
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you,
5 who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
NO, a truly Born Again Christian, is the ONE who is SHIELDED BY GOD'S POWER. Our Faith NEVER FADES, Our Belief in the TRUTH always Remains With US and WILL BE WITH US FOREVER. We have GOD's LOVE poured into our HEARTS by the HOLY SPIRIT, and it Produces that LOVE and Faith that will NEVER END.
What about those you THINK they lost their SALVATION? They Never Had it in the FIRST PLACE. THEY are the MANY that JESUS DESCRIBES HERE:
Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
WE have GOD's LOVE poured into our hearts the MOMENT OF GENUINE SALVATION, and IT WILL PRODUCE A HARVEST OF LOVE, and obedience is LOVE TOWARDS GOD and Our Christian Brothers. NO ANDs, IFs, OR EVEN MAYBEs. It is NOT PART OF SALVATION, IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE.
Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
The Other Church Goers, NEVER came through the NARROW GATE, repenting of their utterly sinful life, and thereby LOVINGLY RECEIVING JESUS AS LORD, meaning MASTER.
That is OUR BELIEFS, and you to can Receive HIM too.
COME!
Most Christians who adhere to scripture don't agree with the fact that I did not repent or have faith when God revealed himself to me. My testimony is very similar to Paul's. I was knocked off my high horse of spiteful unbelief by a very intense experience. One that became the Pinnacle of my unwavering faith and innability to ever deny the truth in the word of God. Can salvation happen like that?
Well this is what I get from the Spirit. I am only revealing what I believe has been revealed to me by the Spirit.
God's word is eternal. Christ makes that clear. Heaven and earth shall pass but the word of God is forever.
This is because the word of God is the law of God. The very blueprint of all existence.
God spoke in eternity and when he did, it was done right at the moment it was spoken. It was done because nothing could interfere with it being accomplished.
Just as the Book of Life was "written" in eternity, it was a completed work. Never changing. No erase marks, no new material.
In time, as our finite minds fathom, things come to pass as God put a season for everything under the sun to come to pass.
We are merely living an already existing existence that can and will not be altered or changed period.
We have already been saved when God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus was manifested before he created the world. The work was done.
The free will we exibit is all within the bubble of God's plan.
We have all the finite freedom we can know, but we have no choice in the eternal scheme of things. It's not ours to decide. We can't even fathom how things are outside our daily lives, let alone have the freedom to make choices we can't even comprehend.
Maybe it's long winded and a very "wishy-washy" storyline, but in short, God is the eternal Creator with the righteousness and wisdom to run the show. It's his show after all. Right???
Okay,. So how wrong am I?
God's word is eternal. Christ makes that clear. Heaven and earth shall pass but the word of God is forever.
This is because the word of God is the law of God. The very blueprint of all existence.
God spoke in eternity and when he did, it was done right at the moment it was spoken. It was done because nothing could interfere with it being accomplished.
Just as the Book of Life was "written" in eternity, it was a completed work. Never changing. No erase marks, no new material.
In time, as our finite minds fathom, things come to pass as God put a season for everything under the sun to come to pass.
We are merely living an already existing existence that can and will not be altered or changed period.
We have already been saved when God's plan of salvation in Christ Jesus was manifested before he created the world. The work was done.
The free will we exibit is all within the bubble of God's plan.
We have all the finite freedom we can know, but we have no choice in the eternal scheme of things. It's not ours to decide. We can't even fathom how things are outside our daily lives, let alone have the freedom to make choices we can't even comprehend.
Maybe it's long winded and a very "wishy-washy" storyline, but in short, God is the eternal Creator with the righteousness and wisdom to run the show. It's his show after all. Right???
Okay,. So how wrong am I?
Jesus used the phrase “inherit the kingdom” in the Day of Judgement to determine who would be welcome in His kingdom with Him, and who be sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell along with the devil and his angels.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:34
Or
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
JPT
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:34
Or
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
JPT