Why so much confusion about salvation?
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You read again, In the greek, Not some english translation
If one can not sin after they are saved, Peter must not have been saved, because paul had to call him out publicly for his sin.
if a child of God CAN NOT SIN, then no one is saved, period. if you think your sinless. You are mistaken, and you should do somethign to take up a cross and destroy your pride.
If one can not sin after they are saved, Peter must not have been saved, because paul had to call him out publicly for his sin.
if a child of God CAN NOT SIN, then no one is saved, period. if you think your sinless. You are mistaken, and you should do somethign to take up a cross and destroy your pride.
opinions are not the same as reading and answering questions...if you are contentious and dishonest then move on. You are being guided by opinion not the words from God.
Read what the word actually says....stop with the unbelief and ranting please.
Also If the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins...then how much sin is left????
If a person is FILLED with the Spirit...then how much sin is left?
How much sin does God allow in His presence?
How many sins did Adam get away with?
Is God more tolerant of sins these days?
Have you EVER been cleaned by God?
Read what the word actually says....stop with the unbelief and ranting please.
Also If the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins...then how much sin is left????
If a person is FILLED with the Spirit...then how much sin is left?
How much sin does God allow in His presence?
How many sins did Adam get away with?
Is God more tolerant of sins these days?
Have you EVER been cleaned by God?
Maybe other informed sources besides fellow members here can reach the sincere of heart who seek truth. I hope so.
Shared here with permission. I bolded some text to make it a standout and capture the attention of those in need of answers and truth. It is also a crying shame if people who are so wrong about faith, salvation, learned those errant teachings from a denominational structured church.
But those pastors will answer for that. Lets hope God's truth reaches those who are on the wrong path now so that they can turn into the right way to go.
Question: "Where does faith come from?"
Answer: Faith is the avenue or the instrument God uses to bring salvation to His people. God gives faith because of His grace and mercy, because He loves us (Ephesians 4—5). Faith comes from God in the form of a gift (Ephesians 2:8).
A gift is not earned by some good deed or kind word, and it is not given because the giver expects a gift in return—under any of those conditions, a gift would not be a gift. The Bible emphasizes that faith is a gift because God deserves all of the glory for our salvation. If the receiver of faith could do anything whatsoever to deserve or earn the gift, that person would have every right to boast (Ephesians 2:9). But all such boasting is excluded (Romans 3:27). God wants Christians to understand they have done nothing to earn faith, it’s only because of what Christ did on the cross that God gives anyone faith (Ephesians 2:5, 16).
By knowing our saving faith comes from God alone, it should encourage Christians to “not think of yourself more highly than you ought,” but remember God decides the measure of faith each one receives (Romans 12:3). The apostle Paul gives an example of the godly humility believers should have when they contemplate their own faith: “Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 1:13–14). Paul understood faith in Christ was given to him because of God’s grace in spite of his own sinful life (1 Corinthians 4:7).
The Bible specifies the way, or the means, that God gives faith to people. “Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ” (Romans 10:17). It is the Word of God that produces faith. Someone could receive faith while hearing a sermon teaching the gospel, someone else by reading about Jesus in the Bible—any time the true gospel of Jesus is communicated, there is potential for faith. This is why it’s of paramount importance for believers everywhere to be obedient to the Great Commission (Matthew 28:16–20) and tell people what Christ has done for humanity. Faith is not the product of a preacher’s compelling presentation, his eloquence, or even his theological soundness—faith is given through the message about Jesus. This is the means God has chosen.
It is good for anyone who wants faith to ask for it. God freely gives what is good to all who ask (Luke 11:9–12), and it’s good to ask for an increase of faith (Luke 17:5; Mark 9:24). Jesus prayed for Peter’s faith to be strengthened (Luke 22:32). As with any gift from God, it is our responsibility to exercise the gift and not become complacent, lazy, or apathetic (Romans 12:1–2, 6–8). Christians can find comfort and peace of mind knowing their faith is from God, because He has said He will finish the good work He started (Philippians 1:6). God is the Author and the Perfecter of faith (Hebrews 12:2a; Romans 8:29–30).
Shared here with permission. I bolded some text to make it a standout and capture the attention of those in need of answers and truth. It is also a crying shame if people who are so wrong about faith, salvation, learned those errant teachings from a denominational structured church.
But those pastors will answer for that. Lets hope God's truth reaches those who are on the wrong path now so that they can turn into the right way to go.
Question: "Where does faith come from?"
Answer: Faith is the avenue or the instrument God uses to bring salvation to His people. God gives faith because of His grace and mercy, because He loves us (Ephesians 4—5). Faith comes from God in the form of a gift (Ephesians 2:8).
A gift is not earned by some good deed or kind word, and it is not given because the giver expects a gift in return—under any of those conditions, a gift would not be a gift. The Bible emphasizes that faith is a gift because God deserves all of the glory for our salvation. If the receiver of faith could do anything whatsoever to deserve or earn the gift, that person would have every right to boast (Ephesians 2:9). But all such boasting is excluded (Romans 3:27). God wants Christians to understand they have done nothing to earn faith, it’s only because of what Christ did on the cross that God gives anyone faith (Ephesians 2:5, 16).
By knowing our saving faith comes from God alone, it should encourage Christians to “not think of yourself more highly than you ought,” but remember God decides the measure of faith each one receives (Romans 12:3). The apostle Paul gives an example of the godly humility believers should have when they contemplate their own faith: “Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 1:13–14). Paul understood faith in Christ was given to him because of God’s grace in spite of his own sinful life (1 Corinthians 4:7).
The Bible specifies the way, or the means, that God gives faith to people. “Faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ” (Romans 10:17). It is the Word of God that produces faith. Someone could receive faith while hearing a sermon teaching the gospel, someone else by reading about Jesus in the Bible—any time the true gospel of Jesus is communicated, there is potential for faith. This is why it’s of paramount importance for believers everywhere to be obedient to the Great Commission (Matthew 28:16–20) and tell people what Christ has done for humanity. Faith is not the product of a preacher’s compelling presentation, his eloquence, or even his theological soundness—faith is given through the message about Jesus. This is the means God has chosen.
It is good for anyone who wants faith to ask for it. God freely gives what is good to all who ask (Luke 11:9–12), and it’s good to ask for an increase of faith (Luke 17:5; Mark 9:24). Jesus prayed for Peter’s faith to be strengthened (Luke 22:32). As with any gift from God, it is our responsibility to exercise the gift and not become complacent, lazy, or apathetic (Romans 12:1–2, 6–8). Christians can find comfort and peace of mind knowing their faith is from God, because He has said He will finish the good work He started (Philippians 1:6). God is the Author and the Perfecter of faith (Hebrews 12:2a; Romans 8:29–30).
Those who cleave to false doctrine demonstrate this, yes. However, for your sake I would hope you'd avail yourself of the resources shared in just this thread so as to turn from the path you are on now and find peace through Christ. And the actual Good News that he died to bring forth.
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It is funny that Christians would seek to contradict another by a dishonest use of a verse they know is wrong in the context being discussed. An example is above using John to say that Christians are sinners...
Doesn't the idea that all are sinners negated by his statement that a Christian cannot sin? So something is missing here...
So then rather than be contentious why not try discussing this problem to seek to resolve the issue...together.
But oneness is usually the last thing on the minds of many...so much for the witness of the church.
Just imagine someone coming to this thread looking for answers....rather than opinions.
Doesn't the idea that all are sinners negated by his statement that a Christian cannot sin? So something is missing here...
So then rather than be contentious why not try discussing this problem to seek to resolve the issue...together.
But oneness is usually the last thing on the minds of many...so much for the witness of the church.
Just imagine someone coming to this thread looking for answers....rather than opinions.
It would have been nice if you posted the biblical definition of faith, and where it comes from and how faith functions.
What is faith?
- Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
Where does faith come from?
2. So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17
How does faith work, or operate or function?
3. 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:21-24
The "works" being referred to here by James is the "work" of obedience.
Not the works of the law.
Now works that earn something.
Not good works.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21
The works that Abraham did was the obedience of faith. Abraham obeyed what God told him to do, which was offer his son Isaac on the altar.
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26
the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Do you know what the obedience of faith is concerning the Gospel?
JPT
So on the one side we have a statement by John that all HAVE sin...present tense. Some think that this means that all continue to sin.
But John also says that a Christian cannot sin. We must look at the context of this statement to understand what John is saying.
I'm hoping that there are none here that just don't care what John in 1John is saying in favour of an unbelieving opinion. Is the bible meant to be ignored at our convenience?
But John also says that a Christian cannot sin. We must look at the context of this statement to understand what John is saying.
I'm hoping that there are none here that just don't care what John in 1John is saying in favour of an unbelieving opinion. Is the bible meant to be ignored at our convenience?
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Your opening line is flagrantly arrogant. This is the reason that "not by works" was shut down. It may be obvious to the casual observer that wattie does not understand the your Christianity. So be kind and be a good Christian and discuss the differences we feel in a way that is constructive and not destructive. Thank you.
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Well, it is a discussion forum. So there will be a mixture of that naturally, don't you think?
In order to sin one has to be a sinner. If one is a sinner then they are not redeemed from that status and are therefore not in Christ. Because Christ is not sin and the Holy Spirit does not indwell the fallen.
People who want to believe they are still sinners under the penalty of death are entitled. They're not in Christ, but they are entitled to believe that.
Some can take scripture and make it whatever they want it to be. If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. If someone comes to Pagans in first century and tells them they are sinners, a word they've never heard before much less about themselves, they're going to protest.
Jesus came to redeem sinners. But first, in order to understand that when receiving the good news someone is preaching, a person has to understand the particulars of their fallen state. "I'm not a sinner!" Because they've never heard of that term before. That's not how they see themselves. So it is from that premise the teaching progresses. "If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us...."
If we claim we are sinners who sin after being washed clean and becoming a new creation in Christ, the truth is not in us.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
In order to sin one has to be a sinner. If one is a sinner then they are not redeemed from that status and are therefore not in Christ. Because Christ is not sin and the Holy Spirit does not indwell the fallen.
People who want to believe they are still sinners under the penalty of death are entitled. They're not in Christ, but they are entitled to believe that.
Some can take scripture and make it whatever they want it to be. If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us. If someone comes to Pagans in first century and tells them they are sinners, a word they've never heard before much less about themselves, they're going to protest.
Jesus came to redeem sinners. But first, in order to understand that when receiving the good news someone is preaching, a person has to understand the particulars of their fallen state. "I'm not a sinner!" Because they've never heard of that term before. That's not how they see themselves. So it is from that premise the teaching progresses. "If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us...."
If we claim we are sinners who sin after being washed clean and becoming a new creation in Christ, the truth is not in us.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The easy answer is this...on our own in our own strength we will all fall short of God and sin. But IN Christ as we abide in Him then we take on His righteousness. A man cannot sin in Christ...but he can walk away to do his own thing and be weak in himself like before. Life swallows up life....so that it is Christ living through us...and He has no sin.
Shared by permission. Source: Apologetics Press https://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=13&article=919
Do Christians Sin?
by Kyle Butt, M.Div.
A quick reading through the small epistle of 1 John reveals a number of verses that seem to disagree with each other. For instance, in 1 John 1:8,10 the author assures his readers that all people have sinned. In 2:1, John seems to indicate that even Christians will sin and therefore need Jesus Christ to be their advocate. Yet, 3:6 has John on record as saying: “Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.” In verse 8 of chapter 3, John wrote: “He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.” And verse 9 states: “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” Steve Wells, in his work, The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible, wrote concerning these verses in chapter 3: “Earlier in this letter (1:8,10) John assured us that everyone sins. Yet in these verses he claims that Christians don’t sin” (Wells, 2003).
Are these verses examples of contradictions within the Bible? If they are not, what do they mean? Do Christians sin, or don’t they?
The answers to these questions actually are much simpler than it may, at first, appear. When we compare other translations of 3:6,8,9, we see that the actual Greek wording of the verses makes a major difference in the understanding of the passages. R.C.H. Lenski translated 3:6 as follows: “Everyone remaining in him does not go on sinning; everyone continuing to sinhas not seen him, nor has he known him” (1966, pp. 457-458, emp. added). Lenski translated verse 9: “Everyone that has been born from God does not go on doing sinningbecause his seed remains in him; and he is not able to go on sinning because he has been born of God” (p. 462, emp. added). The New International Version translates 3:6: “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him” (emp. added).
Lenski explained that 1 John 3:6,9 uses a Greek construction called the present durative, which should be translated “does not go on sinning” (pp. 458,462). John, then, is saying no more in these verses than what Paul was saying in Romans 6:1-2, when he stated: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any long in it?” Numerous other verses teach that Christians will commit sins, even after they have been washed in the blood of Christ (cf. Romans 7:14-25; Philippians 3:12-13). However, John is saying that any person who rebelliously continues to sin, making it his or her usual, habitual way of life, is not following God. In 1 John 3:9, the Greek present infinitive means to habitually sin without compunction. In more practical terms (to offer an example), it is one thing for a Christian to slip up and commit an act of sexual immorality for which he or she is penitent. It is altogether another thing for a person to live as a prostitute and claim to be “having fellowship with the Father” (1 John 1:6).
Therefore, it is easily shown that no discrepancies exist between the verses under discussion in 1 John. Furthermore, it is refreshing to know that when a Christian does sin, “we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
REFERENCES
Wells, Steve (2003), Skeptic’s Annotated Bible [On-line], URL: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/index.html.
Lenski, R.C.H. (1966), The Interpretation of the I and II Epistles of Peter, the Three Epistles of John, and the Epistle of Jude (Minneapolis, MN: Augsburg).
Do Christians Sin?
by Kyle Butt, M.Div.
A quick reading through the small epistle of 1 John reveals a number of verses that seem to disagree with each other. For instance, in 1 John 1:8,10 the author assures his readers that all people have sinned. In 2:1, John seems to indicate that even Christians will sin and therefore need Jesus Christ to be their advocate. Yet, 3:6 has John on record as saying: “Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.” In verse 8 of chapter 3, John wrote: “He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.” And verse 9 states: “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” Steve Wells, in his work, The Skeptic’s Annotated Bible, wrote concerning these verses in chapter 3: “Earlier in this letter (1:8,10) John assured us that everyone sins. Yet in these verses he claims that Christians don’t sin” (Wells, 2003).
Are these verses examples of contradictions within the Bible? If they are not, what do they mean? Do Christians sin, or don’t they?
The answers to these questions actually are much simpler than it may, at first, appear. When we compare other translations of 3:6,8,9, we see that the actual Greek wording of the verses makes a major difference in the understanding of the passages. R.C.H. Lenski translated 3:6 as follows: “Everyone remaining in him does not go on sinning; everyone continuing to sinhas not seen him, nor has he known him” (1966, pp. 457-458, emp. added). Lenski translated verse 9: “Everyone that has been born from God does not go on doing sinningbecause his seed remains in him; and he is not able to go on sinning because he has been born of God” (p. 462, emp. added). The New International Version translates 3:6: “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him” (emp. added).
Lenski explained that 1 John 3:6,9 uses a Greek construction called the present durative, which should be translated “does not go on sinning” (pp. 458,462). John, then, is saying no more in these verses than what Paul was saying in Romans 6:1-2, when he stated: “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any long in it?” Numerous other verses teach that Christians will commit sins, even after they have been washed in the blood of Christ (cf. Romans 7:14-25; Philippians 3:12-13). However, John is saying that any person who rebelliously continues to sin, making it his or her usual, habitual way of life, is not following God. In 1 John 3:9, the Greek present infinitive means to habitually sin without compunction. In more practical terms (to offer an example), it is one thing for a Christian to slip up and commit an act of sexual immorality for which he or she is penitent. It is altogether another thing for a person to live as a prostitute and claim to be “having fellowship with the Father” (1 John 1:6).
Therefore, it is easily shown that no discrepancies exist between the verses under discussion in 1 John. Furthermore, it is refreshing to know that when a Christian does sin, “we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”
REFERENCES
Wells, Steve (2003), Skeptic’s Annotated Bible [On-line], URL: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/index.html.
Lenski, R.C.H. (1966), The Interpretation of the I and II Epistles of Peter, the Three Epistles of John, and the Epistle of Jude (Minneapolis, MN: Augsburg).