Why so much confusion about salvation?

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Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#61
Oct 13, 2017
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#61
Ralph- said:
This is definitely one of those passages where we can let it go as a 'agree to disagree' passage.

So without going into that matter, lol, I will say there is a distinct difference between struggling with sin, and living in it. Too many 'Christians' use this passage to rationalize living defeated in the flesh without a struggle and thinking they are saved despite that. This is a particularly common thing at this time in church history. It's based in a horrible distortion of Paul's teaching of how justification is not by works, but rather by faith apart from works. Many in the church thinks that means, "oh, I don't have to have works! Bartender, make it a double!"
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You ignore the simple fact that we all sin. Do you know the law and try to keep it? It is scattered through the Torah! Here it is. Disobeying any of these laws is sin.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#62
Oct 31, 2015
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#62
Endoscopy said:
You ignore the simple fact that we all sin. Do you know the law and try to keep it? It is scattered through the Torah! Here it is. Disobeying any of these laws is sin.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
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Never the less, here is the truth -

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6



JPT
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#63
May 23, 2016
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#63
MarkWilliams said:
The first 2 points can be challenged, Christ said He came to save "many" He didn't say the whole world. In another place, He said He would lose none of those the Father gave Him.
He could have said I will lose none of the world if He came to save the whole world as in humanity as a whole
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I agree with every point including the first two - agree 100%! Amen and amen and amen and amen!

And when all that is said - Amen again another hundred times!
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#64
Oct 13, 2017
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#64
justpassinthrough said:
Never the less, here is the truth -

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6



JPT
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So you are saying you never sin. Are you sure you keep all 613 laws in the Torah? Do you even know what they are? Remember ignorance of the law is no excuse.

A Christian should strive to do what is right but we ALL SIN!!
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#66
Jun 11, 2018
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#66
justpassinthrough said:
Never the less, here is the truth -

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:3-6



JPT
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Amen! That is the salvation offered by Jesus and provided for by His death and resurrection...to walk as Jesus walked.

But this is not the agenda of men...who want salvation for nothing...with no purpose other than to be saved.

But God has a purpose in Christ...called the truth...which is REALLY unpopular, even around these parts.

God bless you brother. :)
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#67
Jun 11, 2018
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#67
Salvation is FROM sin. Many want just to be made not responsible for sin...but that is not according to truth or righteousness.

we are to be made the righteousness of God...towards people here on Earth. But that must be without sin...nor spot, nor wrinkle.

So then people who don't understand what it means to overcome sin...don't yet understand salvation.
 
C

CandieM

Guest
#68
#68
All I know is that I'm fed up with this world and I don't even want to be in it anymore. I'm fed up with being threatened by other people and feeling unsafe.

On the other hand, I find myself having the desire to enjoy feminine pleasures of this world. I want to enjoy perfumes and soft blankets and nail polish that shifts and glimmers in different types of light and essential oils that make me feel nurtured and loved and snuggling with kitties and eating chocolate.

It's all so ironic.

And I am blamed for being fed up with how the world is. I can't feel angry, I can't feel fear; I can't do this, I can't do that. I can't win, that's what I can't do. :confused:
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#69
Oct 13, 2017
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#69
CandieM said:
All I know is that I'm fed up with this world and I don't even want to be in it anymore. I'm fed up with being threatened by other people and feeling unsafe.

On the other hand, I find myself having the desire to enjoy feminine pleasures of this world. I want to enjoy perfumes and soft blankets and nail polish that shifts and glimmers in different types of light and essential oils that make me feel nurtured and loved and snuggling with kitties and eating chocolate.

It's all so ironic.

And I am blamed for being fed up with how the world is. I can't feel angry, I can't feel fear; I can't do this, I can't do that. I can't win, that's what I can't do. :confused:
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Where are the restriction on cosmetics in the Bible? I just did a Google search and found them being used. Same with nice blankets. Christianity doesn't adhere to the stoic rejection of comfortable living. Somewhere you came across something saying this erroneously.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#70
#70
Endoscopy said:
You ignore the simple fact that we all sin.
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How can I be ignoring the fact that we all sin? I made the distinction between struggling with sin and living in it. I made no mention of sinless perfection.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#71
#71
Endoscopy said:
Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
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Then he goes on to describe in Romans 8 that this deliverance through Jesus Christ is having the Spirit in salvation.

For the saved person that means walking in the Spirit you have within you. For the unsaved person that means getting the Spirit in salvation (then walking in it).
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#72
#72
I think all the confusion comes from the 50 million different doctrins that all the different churches bicker about
 
J

justpassinthrough

Senior Member
#74
Oct 31, 2015
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#74
Latour said:
Amen! That is the salvation offered by Jesus and provided for by His death and resurrection...to walk as Jesus walked.

But this is not the agenda of men...who want salvation for nothing...with no purpose other than to be saved.

But God has a purpose in Christ...called the truth...which is REALLY unpopular, even around these parts.

God bless you brother. :)
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Yes sir.

Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.

Not just grace.

Most folks don’t understand that grace is freely given to us who believe, which is the ability to do what we could not with out it.

Grace is the ability to practice righteousness, just as Christ and His disciples did.

Grace is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.


Being under the law of Moses means being under obligation to obey the law.


Likewise being under grace means we are under obligation to obey the Spirit of Truth, who dwells within us.



JPT
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

Senior Member
#75
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
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#75
Because people don't understand what salvation is.... Some how they feel they have to work for it, get rid of their sins, get clean before they can come to God. It's hard to believe that something as precious as salvation is a FREE GIFT that has been given to us by God himself....

It's free - you don't have to do anything to earn it because there is NOTHING you can do to earn it. You will never be good enough, clean enough or work hard enough to earn your salvation.

There is only one who could fit the bill and that is JESUS. He died and paid the price for all of our sins and there is nothing you can do except to accept this free gift. Ask Jesus to come into your heart and give you the ability to repent and ask for forgiveness then give your heart to Jesus/God and allow the Holy Spirit to work in you and then you will have a new life and a new heart the former things pass away and you can reach out and take hold of the GIFT of salvation....
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#76
Jun 11, 2018
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#76
shrume said:
Salvation sticks.


Rom 11:
29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
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The calling is without repentance....but not so the election
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#78
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#78
CandieM said:
On the other hand, I find myself having the desire to enjoy feminine pleasures of this world. I want to enjoy perfumes and soft blankets and nail polish that shifts and glimmers in different types of light and essential oils that make me feel nurtured and loved and snuggling with kitties and eating chocolate.
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Here, you can snuggle with my kitties for a while. > https://christianchat.com/media/sam_0373-jpg.231/
 
Latour

Latour

Active member
#79
Jun 11, 2018
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#79
Endoscopy said:
The crux of the matter is one of the differences between Armenianism and Calvinism, point 5. Who is right?

Reformed/Calvinism
TULIP
1. Total depravity
2. Unconditional election
3. Limited atonement
4. Irresistible grace
5. Perserverance of the Saints

Armenianism
1. Free will or Human ability
2. Conditional election
3. Universal Redemption or General Atonement
4. The Holy Spirit can be Effectually Resisted
5. Falling from Grace
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They are all aspects of the truth. It depends "where" you are. By "where" I mean spiritual condition!
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#80
Jul 3, 2015
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#80
claysmithr said:
We are also required to have faith which leads us to bearing fruit.

John 15:4-6
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And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. Hebrews 11:6
 
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